Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Precisely.That suggests that this whole "good parenting" approach was handed down and taken up out of obligation rather than "This is the right course of parenting for me."
-AC
Apparently if you dig at the wrong angle, you'll completely bypass the gold and land in the shit mine.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well, not all stupid to the degree that we all go out an want to do dumb and dangerous stuff. I for one was too afraid to go near anything dangerous.
hypocrisy. please take notice rather than offense, but you use your own experience to thwart my point, which you just declared to be an unsound debating tactic....right? i would dare to say that you were just an acceptionally good child.
Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
And Bardok, I can assure you there wasnt a single inch of their bedrooms that I didnt know about it's just the way I was raised.
What if they hid it in the garden, a hideout in the woods at a friends house in the cellar? Either you are The Flash and have enough time to search all your house all the time (simultaneously posting on 18 Forums[/joke]) or you are not telling the truth. Oh and if you actually monitored your kids day 24/7 and searched there rooms so often to know where everything was at what given time I have to say your parenting might just not have been that good. Ever heard of a little thing called "trust"?
Originally posted by PVS
hypocrisy. please take notice rather than offense, but you use your own experience to thwart my point, which you just declared to be an unsound debating tactic....right? i would dare to say that you were just an acceptionally good child.
You are including me when you say kids are stupid. I was once a kid. I wasn't stupid just because you were. So no, no hypocricy there.
When it includes me, then I don't ask to be spoken for. JP applied her experience to mine, you over-generalised to a point that I was included. I'm just saying don't include me. If you wanna speak from experience, go for it. Don't apply yours to everyone else's.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You are including me when you say kids are stupid. I was once a kid. I wasn't stupid just because you were. So no, no hypocricy there.When it includes me, then I don't ask to be spoken for. JP applied her experience to mine, you over-generalised to a point that I was included. I'm just saying don't include me. If you wanna speak from experience, go for it. Don't apply yours do everyone else's.
-AC
ok, so you're not going to argue that kids are stupid and need parents who participate in their lives to keep them straight? i hope not.
and the reason you were a good kid could perhaps be because your parents stayed one step ahead of you when you were in your developemental stages. you could be the product of good parenting, although you may wish to arrogantly believe that you were just inherantly wise 😛
Originally posted by PVS
ok, so you're not going to argue that kids are stupid and need parents who participate in their lives to keep them straight? i hope not.and the reason you were a good kid could perhaps be because your parents stayed one step ahead of you when you were in your developemental stages. you could be the product of good parenting, although you may wish to arrogantly believe that you were just inherantly wise 😛
I wasn't restricted to the point that my life and childhood wasn't fun and I never gave my parents any reason to worry about anything because as previously stated, I was personally too afraid of messing around with fireworks and all that stuff.
I've said previously that I had great parents. That's exactly right. I don't considering the savage searching of your kids rooms with no reason, to be good parenting though. I consider it to be the manifestation of deep rooted fears of bad parenting.
My point was that JP was wrong to call them idiot parents because as we've both agreed, it's not necessarily a case of idiotic parenting. I've more than proven why I believe this and why this is the case.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I wasn't restricted to the point that my life and childhood wasn't fun and I never gave my parents any reason to worry about anything because as previously stated, I was personally too afraid of messing around with fireworks and all that stuff.I've said previously that I had great parents. That's exactly right. I don't considering the savage searching of your kids rooms with no reason, to be good parenting though. I consider it to be the manifestation of deep rooted fears of bad parenting.
My point was that JP was wrong to call them idiot parents because as we've both agreed, it's not necessarily a case of idiotic parenting. I've more than proven why I believe this and why this is the case.
-AC
you had great parents. but what if you didnt. what if your parents never gave you the time of day? then it would be up to your immature and developing mind to form your own sense of right and wrong, and how you generally conduct yourself...basically who you are.
is it not possible that you could have been a murdering psyco given such a horrible circumstance?
in other words, i dont see the case of "idiotic parenting" but rather little or no parenting at all
Originally posted by PVS
you had great parents. but what if you didnt. what if your parents never gave you the time of day? then it would be up to your immature and developing mind to form your own sense of right and wrong, and how you generally conduct yourself...basically who you are.is it not possible that you could have been a murdering psyco given such a horrible circumstance?
Of course it is, but where did I deny that parents are responsible for kids? You've gone way far off the tracks there, PVS.
It's not about "Can neglecting parents lead to bad kids?" It's about "In this case, are they idiot parents for what happened?".
The answer could very easily be no. At 17 I could have done what those kids did, despite my parents being great. It has nothing to do with asking if horrible circumstance leads to horrid people.
It's me trying and succeeding in proving that it's not necessarily a case of idiotic parenting here. As I believe we've agreed.
If someone can post a link that says these people were absolutely sucky parents, I'd be thankful. Until then, that's not necessarily the case.
-AC
Originally posted by PVS
you had great parents. but what if you didnt. what if your parents never gave you the time of day? then it would be up to your immature and developing mind to form your own sense of right and wrong, and how you generally conduct yourself...basically who you are.is it not possible that you could have been a murdering psyco given such a horrible circumstance?
in other words, i dont see the case of "idiotic parenting" but rather little or no parenting at all
But "GoodParent" is just not an absolute term. What is good for oine kid might not be good for another. And for a parent to be lucky enough to hzave a kid that react on the classic types of parenting is not actually good parenting.
good parenting is simply that act of being active in the life of your kid.
rather more simply: not being vacant from your kids' lives and forcing them to raise themselves in the sense of morality and social conduct.
it has nothing to do with determining who your kids will be. thats up to them. but this does not including somehow spontainiously turning into a murderer. lets not split hairs to spite logic
My Mum's parents were of a different story.
Her Mother was the friendly, generous one whilst her Dad was strict and rather mean to her and her sister.
Once you become old enough, you make a choice. Bad parenting doesn't inherently lead to bad kids. My Mum could have gone one way, she chose to go the other. Which was for the better.
As said by Andrew Vachss:
"Evil is not a destiny, it is a decision. Most abused children do not grow up to be abusers, and most of those who do abuse themselves, rather than others. If we excuse the predator because he was abused as a child, we are degrading the heroism of those who were similarly abused, yet refused (remember, it is a choice) to imitate their oppressors."
It's a choice, once you reach a certain age. Saying or suggesting that it's not is degrading to those who choose to put the bad parenting/bad kids theory to bed by turning out alright.
-AC
Originally posted by PVS
good parenting is simply that act of being active in the life of your kid.
rather more simply: not being vacant from your kids' lives and forcing them to raise themselves in the sense of morality and social conduct.it has nothing to do with determining who your kids will be. thats up to them. but this does not including somehow spontainiously turning into a murderer. lets not split hairs to spite logic
if you refer to overbearing parents then you miss my point about mere presence in your kid's life. overbearing parents wish to shape who their kids will be, rather than sipmly keep them on the right path (not becoming a socially dysfunctional lunatic) of coarse nothing is black and white. but again why spite logic for the sake of the rare exception?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I think you've gone way off point here, to be honest.I've made my point clear and accurate enough that it needs no more explaining hopefully. So I'll leave you and the ever optimistic Bardock to discuss parenting further.
-AC
because you dont see it as the point, means little or nothing.
many here do, and thus the discussion on it. since when is your opinion
absolute fact?
Originally posted by PVS
if you refer to overbearing parents then you miss my point about mere presence in your kid's life. overbearing parents wish to shape who their kids will be, rather than sipmly keep them on the right path (not becoming a socially dysfunctional lunatic) of coarse nothing is black and white. but again why spite logic for the sake of the rare exception?
No, I am saying that keeping them ion the "ight" path is for some easier and for some harder...and for some impossible. But it's not only the fault of the parent. Humans are not born equal and the same circumstances won't make them similar. So it is not good parenting but luck to some extend (I don't say that there aren't perople who are more skilled to understand how an individual child has to be raised, but I think a "screwed up" child does not necessarily mean that the parents were bad.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My point was that JP was wrong to call them idiot parents because as we've both agreed, it's not necessarily a case of idiotic parenting. I've more than proven why I believe this and why this is the case.-AC
A person's opinion is never wrong. Only if they pass it off as fact without exception to that opinion. Which I never did.
Lana Im aware of that, but it doesnt diminish the fact that there were things I found out that as a parent I needed to know, by going through their rooms, that I otherwise would not have known. And Bardock, my kids have to earn my trust. If you go back in the thread you will see the 4 things I believe I owe my children and trust isnt one of them.