Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
I dont know about that, I went through both my other kids rooms and they have given me no reason to.
This is exactly what I mean. Why do you immediately use yourself as an example?
It's not a GOOD thing to say "Yeah I searched my kids rooms with no reason." That doesn't make you a good parent. I was referring to, oh, every parent I've ever known. You taking the search-the-rooms route is just you in this thread. Stop applying your parenting to everything.
Snoop: If the parents allow their kids to have guns, then I think the explanation is obvious. That has nothing to do with the point I make.
-AC
Fact is, no one knows why events like this happen. It's easy to place the blame on parents, music, movies, video games, bullying, ect. But usually it seems to be something deeper. While the parents MAY be to blame, not necessarily for failing to realizing their children are going to kill people, but for what may simply be a failure at raising these kids properly.
Kid's are secretive by nature, whether they're good or bad, they like to be left alone, and most parents these days just chalk that up to "being teenagers" which is usually pretty accurate. Most parents will trust their kids to just let them be unless there's a reason to suspect something sinister is at work. Teenagers can hide things very well, also.
However, to get back to my initial point, placing blame is not always the best route to take, especially when it comes to teens and violence. There's a film that was released a couple of years ago called Elephant about a school shooting that's pretty much a recreation of Columbine. The filmmaker, instead of taking the easy way out by trying to pretend he knows why these events take place, he gave us no reasons, he didn't bullshit himself or the audience by pretending like there is some universal reason that these events take place. There isn't, and by showing this, in an honest fashion, pure, confusing, sad violence, without meaning or purpose, he made the most honest and truthful point anyone could ever make about these type of events - No one knows why they happen, no one knows the cause, and no one knows how to fix the problem. I think more people should watch this movie because it will expose how pointless it is to always try and look for blame, and find easy ways to fix it, when most of the time there is no simple or obvious answer.
Originally posted by PVS
and you were wise to do so.
i was a good kid, never bugged anyone. but had enough fireworks in my room to start a war 😂
Did you plan to start a war or hurt anyone and did you give your parents any reason to believe you'd hurt anyone?
I'm guessing from that same quote that the answer is no. In which case my point is yet again, proven.
No reason to search was there? Regardless of what you had, you gave your parents no reason to search your room because there was...well...no reason. If the kids in question put up a facade similar to how you actually were, then there was no reason for the kids rooms to be searched in the eyes of the parent.
Her claim of "Where the feck are the idiot parents?" is not necessary or applicable.
-AC
Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Because AC, mine is the only experience that I have reference to in this case for one thing, and secondly because you keep asking if I searched their rooms etc. Make up your mind.
You applied it to the wrong part though. No mind to be made up.
You applied your experience to mine, where it has no place. I'm not applying mine to yours, just applying mine.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Did you plan to start a war or hurt anyone and did you give your parents any reason to believe you'd hurt anyone?I'm guessing from that same quote that the answer is no. In which case my point is yet again, proven.
-AC
the point i was making ac is that a responsible parent monitors their kids, because kids are stupid. i was stupid, and though my mom might have ravaged my room beyond my knowledge, she just didnt search good enough to find my arsenal. your point is not proven at all.
of coarse i didnt want to hurt anyone, but guess what? i very well could have by accident, as is the case with most kids and families gettung hurt. its mostly a matter of accident. thus the need to check up on your kids.
Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
AC, because until you've BEEN a parent you are fairly clueless as to how that whole scenario operates now aren't you? 🙄And I always knew what was going on UNDER my roof with my 2 oldest kids while they lived under my roof. I think the very fact that you have to use such gross and insulting comments like the latter proves you don't have what it takes to continue an adult conversation, therefore until someone comes along who can I'll be on my way. Have nice day now ya hear? And yes Lana they did actually.
How does it matter if one had kids or not. And to be honest that you say you knew everything that went on in your house when your kids were still there is a) most probably wrong and b) not even closely to proofable. Now if something went on in your house you didn't know you wouldn't exactly know aboot it or would you?
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriHer claim of "Where the feck are the idiot parents?" is not necessary or applicable.
-AC
I think I have the right to state what I felt at the time of the initial post. Whether you find it "necessary or applicable" has no bearing on my opinion. Ive come to the conclusion that you must orate to yourself while you debate, your posts are almost like self conversations. That must be great fun for you. ✅ At any rate, it's time for me to go cook lunch, have fun "proving" your points. And Bardok, I can assure you there wasnt a single inch of their bedrooms that I didnt know about it's just the way I was raised.
ill admit that blaming the parents is oversimplified. many more factors are involved in the choices of a young adult. (i dont say "teen" because they are in fact young adults who make their own choices). but we are all products of our upbringing. and though that is not the solitary factor in such a horrible decision, it certainy has a HUGE influence.
so you cant just blame the parents, fine. point taken.
but they certainly can have a big portion of the blame/
Originally posted by PVS
the point i was making ac is that a responsible parent monitors their kids, because kids are stupid. i was stupid, and though my mom might have ravaged my room beyond my knowledge, she just didnt search good enough to find my arsenal. your point is not proven at all.
Yes, it is quite proven. By me and most importantly by you and JP.
Kids aren't always stupid just because you've claimed you were. Well, not all stupid to the degree that we all go out an want to do dumb and dangerous stuff. I for one was too afraid to go near anything dangerous.
Secondly, regardless of what you had in your room, you gave your mother and father no reason to search, so why would they have? They obviously trusted that you would never hurt anyone and you didn't (it would seem), nor did you intend to. So you're going by if's.
Originally posted by PVS
of coarse i didnt want to hurt anyone, but guess what? i very well could have by accident, as is the case with most kids and families gettung hurt. its mostly a matter of accident. thus the need to check up on your kids.
You're going off into some other area.
My point: Jedi Priestess was wrong to ask where the idiot parents were because it's not necessarily a case of idiot parenting is it? No.
Moreover, they were 17 and 15. There's more chance of them being able to slip things by their parents than ever at that age.
-AC
Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
I think I have the right to state what I felt at the time of the initial post. Whether you find it "necessary or applicable" has no bearing on my opinion. Ive come to the conclusion that you must orate to yourself while you debate, your posts are almost like self conversations. That must be great fun for you. ✅ At any rate, it's time for me to go cook lunch, have fun "proving" your points. And Bardok, I can assure you there wasnt a single inch of their bedrooms that I didnt know about it's just the way I was raised.
Where did I say you have no right to say that?
I just said you were wrong. So to paraphrase you: "Read before you reply to me."
Goodie. I have actually proven my point, regardless of whether you like it or not. It's not something I'm sitting here being proud of, it's just something that's happened. You're the one making some massive divafest over it.
-AC
Originally posted by PVS
ill admit that blaming the parents is oversimplified. many more factors are involved in the choices of a young adult. (i dont say "teen" because they are in fact young adults who make their own choices). but we are all products of our upbringing. and though that is not the solitary factor in such a horrible decision, it certainy has a HUGE influence.so you cant just blame the parents, fine. point taken.
but they certainly can have a big portion of the blame/
I agree that they do have a huge influence. But the thing is, I believe that raising a child is such a conmplex thing that to actually know wha is right for each individual is almost impossible. Now lets say Jedi Priestess is a great mother and her style worked awesome with her kids. Who can actually say that if she would bring up those two boys that they would turn out the same way? Maybe the parents behaved just like parents are expected to behave just thekids needed special treatment or were sop screwed up that exactly this usual behaviour of parents made them the way they are. You can't really blame parents if there kids are not the way society wants them. It's just unfair.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're going off into some other area.My point: Jedi Priestess was wrong to ask where the idiot parents were because it's not necessarily a case of idiot parenting is it? No.
Moreover, they were 17 and 15. There's more chance of them being able to slip things by their parents than ever at that age.
-AC
its not some other area AC. please connect the dots.
responsible parenting involves simply KNOWING your kids.
and please listen: of coarse a parents knowing of their kids is
limited, since as kids mature, they become progressivly secretive
and even rebelious in nature, but i refuse to accept that a kid
would be lost enough to do murder simply due to a few bad
choices and influences in their recent lives. it makes no sense at all.
there is a certain degree of deviency in all kids, but to the level of
terrorism and murder? barring any mental disorders, thats ridiculous.
murderers are trained from the crib, or rather neglected from.
Coming into this debate rather late, just curious as to if anyone raised the issue regarding the circumstances that initiated this whole process with these kids.
It mentions that they were relocated for disciplinary reasons, but no reasons are mentioned. Were they also both relocated from one school to the new one together? If that is the case it seems they were just passed off to be somebody else's problem.
The parents may have no clue what their children were up to because the kids were 17 and 15, but I also doubt that the parents were really involved not to notice that something was going on in these kid's lives. Plus the parents were also responsible for teaching these kids how to equip themselves to exist in society where mass murder is not really an acceptable solution to a personal problem.
In the story it states:
The boys told investigators that they planned to kill Quartz Hill students who had made fun of them, using guns and homemade explosives, then commit suicide, Brown said.
What the heck was being done to them to push them over the edge where this seemed like a rational solution? Has the issue of the tormenting and bullying behaviour that runs rampant in north american schools been at all addressed since columbine?
I am not relieving these to kids (and I use that term lightly) of the responsibility of their actions or the actions that they planned and intended. What I am trying to get at is that in the big blame game that always seems to follow one of these events, there is enough sh*t to spread around where multiple parties should see themselves covered in it evenly.