Teens Arrested in Alleged Massacre Plot

Originally posted by PVS
because you dont see it as the point, means little or nothing.
many here do, and thus the discussion on it. since when is your opinion
absolute fact?

I don't know, since when? News to me.

You've gone off point to what you began discussing with me. I've made my point as abundantly clear as I can. I know you comprehend it and you've even agreed to a certain extent. That which you and Bardock are discussing now is off point with regards to what you and I were relevantly discussing.

-AC

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
A person's opinion is never wrong. Only if they pass it off as fact without exception to that opinion. Which I never did.

Lana Im aware of that, but it doesnt diminish the fact that there were things I found out that as a parent I needed to know, by going through their rooms, that I otherwise would not have known. And Bardock, my kids have to earn my trust. If you go back in the thread you will see the 4 things I believe I owe my children and trust isnt one of them.

And a lot of people might say you are a bad parent for that. I won't, but you can't say that parents that actually trust there children when they ar eat the age of 17 are bad parents.

i accept that bardock. there are always extenuating circumstances. for example...an awkward kid (ugly, fat..whatever) may be somewhat doomed to a different set of social circumstances than their parents know how to handle. so perhaps they would not be prepared to help their kid, and thus are helpless.

in other words, sometimes a parent can simply not be an influence in their kid's life. not out of apathy, but rather an imposibility. fine

but the point is, most if not all these kids are not raised right. meaning they have no positive role models.

Nope Bardock, I am not the authority on who is a bad parent. All I have is my opinion of other parents.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Nope Bardock, I am not the authority on who is a bad parent. All I have is my opinion of other parents.

Oh well then. That's alright. I just see it differently.

Originally posted by PVS
i accept that bardock. there are always extenuating circumstances. for example...an awkward kid (ugly, fat..whatever) may be somewhat doomed to a different set of social circumstances than their parents know how to handle. so perhaps they would not be prepared to help their kid, and thus are helpless.

in other words, sometimes a parent can simply not be an influence in their kid's life. not out of apathy, but rather an imposibility. fine

but the point is, most if not all these kids are not raised right. meaning they have no positive role models.

Well I wouldn't actually say that I know any statistic as to how many of "those" kids (just out of curiousity how many do you figure would be the number of "those" kids) have had "good" role models and how many didn't. But...well actually that's all i wanted to say.

I see what you are getting at PVS, I also see what point Bardock is trying to mkae as well. There was a case several years back about a kid, I think it was in the northwest part of the country who came from loving parents, who were involved and he still went off the deep end and shot people. That's why I said earlier there are always exceptions, however Bardock, the exception is just that and not the rule.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
I see what you are getting at PVS, I also see what point Bardock is trying to mkae as well. There was a case several years back about a kid, I think it was in the northwest part of the country who came from loving parents, who were involved and he still went off the deep end and shot people. That's why I said earlier there are always exceptions, however Bardock, the exception is just that and not the rule.

I agree that those are the exeption, but that's exactly my point. What are people that plan mass-murders and store tons of guns in their Barbie Houses? Exeptions!

Oh well definitely they are the exception to your average kid to be sure.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Oh well definitely they are the exception to your average kid to be sure.

Right, and what I believe (and that is not based on anything factual just my own imagination) is that the amount of the exception A in the Group of Exception B is much higher, so even if it weere jkust 20% that are un-raisable in that group it is still a 1 to 5 chance that it's not the fault of the parents...

🤨 what? Sorry my brain hurts from jousting with Mr. Perfect for the last couple of hours. (which by the way he won, just so we all know that now 🙄 ) Can you rephrase that?

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
🤨 what? Sorry my brain hurts from jousting with Mr. Perfect for the last couple of hours. (which by the way he won, just so we all know that now 🙄 ) Can you rephrase that?

What? We didn't argue for the last few hours.
Anyways I will try.
I think that people who start massacers are usually more often thge ones who cannot be parented very easy if at all.

Oh I wasnt referring to you dear. And its still getting lost in the translation, Im sorry.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Oh I wasnt referring to you dear. And its still getting lost in the translation, Im sorry.

I know. I was jsut making a joke. The joke was purposedly misunderstanding you because I believe to be Mr. Perfect. Hmm...jokes are muchg less fun if you explain them.

Ok I am not sure how to make it clear. So we agreed that there are exceptions when also there are good parents the kids turn out bad. Now I assumed that those cases are more common with kids that decide to mass-murder. So I think that in some cases of kids planning killing-sprees (Is that an actual word, I think I got that from GTA) it's not the fault of the parent (and there are of course those cases where the planning of duch a thing is not actually due to being a bad person but for opther reasons like an outcry for help, or a therapy...or jsut vivid imagination)

But see its my feeling that the majority of the time, the parents of these kids do share the blame for this happeneing.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
But see its my feeling that the majority of the time, the parents of these kids do share the blame for this happeneing.

Even so much as to be prosecuted? (I am so not sure aboot the spelling of this word)

I honestly feel, that if parents have a child and they know said child has these kinds of article in their room, and has been in trouble and they choose to ignore warning signs if they are present, then yes that parent should share in being prosecuted for the crime. But these things must be in place beforehand.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
I honestly feel, that if parents have a child and they know said child has these kinds of article in their room, and has been in trouble and they choose to ignore warning signs if they are present, then yes that parent should share in being prosecuted for the crime. But these things must be in place beforehand.

Well of course, that is a whoe different thing. It's hard to proof though and it's not mentioned in the article.

What I don't understand is why those kids had so much evidence in their rooms. That's very smart to have a notebook full of stuff in your room. My parents frequently check my room to see that I'm not doing anything to endanger another human being. Don't know why they still do that. It wasn't like I was gonna kill those kids. They were the ones who were hurting me...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My point: Jedi Priestess was wrong to ask where the idiot parents were because it's not necessarily a case of idiot parenting is it? No.

Moreover, they were 17 and 15. There's more chance of them being able to slip things by their parents than ever at that age.

-AC

Ill stick my opinion of the thread to this post.

Maybe not 100% idiotic parenting, but if the kids are expelled from a school for disciplinary reasons, as a parent, wouldnt you want to know the exact reasons? If you found out it was a reason for say, fighting with other students, you would figure that no matter what your kid acts like at home or whereever, they have the capability to lose themselves and get into trouble. So you should increase your awareness of their behaviour, and maybe get more involved with their school life and so on.

And then if your kid has the word HATE cut into their arm, shouldnt you kind of see it? If I had a kid who did that, I wouldnt just shrug it off as a phase or whatever, I'd want to know why the hell they would cut themselves like that. Sure, kids can hide stuff in their rooms, (the plans and weapons etc. being this case) but come on, you'd have to be blind not to notice physical self inflictions they've done.

So, I would assume this is part of JP's argument of parents fault. If they failed to notice, or follow up those things, then yes, they are idiotic parents.

Originally posted by Mišt
Ill stick my opinion of the thread to this post.

Maybe not 100% idiotic parenting, but if the kids are expelled from a school for disciplinary reasons, as a parent, wouldnt you want to know the exact reasons? If you found out it was a reason for say, fighting with other students, you would figure that no matter what your kid acts like at home or whereever, they have the capability to lose themselves and get into trouble. So you should increase your awareness of their behaviour, and maybe get more involved with their school life and so on.

And then if your kid has the word HATE cut into their arm, shouldnt you kind of see it? If I had a kid who did that, I wouldnt just shrug it off as a phase or whatever, I'd want to know why the hell they would cut themselves like that. Sure, kids can hide stuff in their rooms, (the plans and weapons etc. being this case) but come on, you'd have to be blind not to notice physical self inflictions they've done.

So, I would assume this is part of JP's argument of parents fault. If they failed to notice, or follow up those things, then yes, they are idiotic parents.

Well there you go then. You sort of ended it in the first main sentence. "Maybe not 100% idiotic parenting..." Exactly. One of the first things she did was indirectly place blame on the parents when we have absolutely no knowledge of what the parents were like. If they were neglective, mean assholes, then yes I'll agree with her that it's bad parenting. My only point was that this may not necessarily be the case at this point. If anyone has concrete evidence contrary to my previously stated beliefs, please show me. Until then, I'm not going to assume they were.

As for the arm cutting, it's not always that easy. People who cut often hide it from their parents. Someone I know used to do it a lot and his mum never noticed, she's a great parent though. He just chose to keep it from her. It's not as though she saw it and thought "Aww bless him, he's cut hate into his arm. I'm sure it's nothing." Is it? I think we can wager a guess that this isn't too likely. It's possible, but I doubt it's likely and until proven otherwise I shall assume this wasn't what happened. So that means the kid must have hid it, which isn't always a hard thing to do. Great parent or not.

Failing to notice that your child is cutting does not make you an idiotic parent. That claim in itself is idiotic. People who cut aren't necessarily exhibitionists you know. You realise this, right? They don't carve their arms and then stroll around in a tank top going "Wheeeey just cut myself. I'm hardcore." They hide it. Either way, no, you're wrong. Failure to notice such things doesn't equate to idiotic parenting. I could go carve my arms up right now and my parents would never know. Are you prepared to call my parents idiots?

-AC