right
Originally posted by Metalmanxright and like i said before if colossus can knock the crap out of hulk then of course she hulk as well. and yes that is the original hulk from xmen 370 i looked it up
Yea, basically anyone would lose against Champion with the gem.Without the gem, he wasn't nearly as strong as he was before, and She-Hulk had been training for a looong time to exponentially increase her strength.
Anyway, that aside, Colossus still beats her 7/10.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, basically anyone would lose against Champion with the gem.Without the gem, he wasn't nearly as strong as he was before, and She-Hulk had been training for a looong time to exponentially increase her strength.
Anyway, that aside, She-Hulk beats him 9/10.
You had a typo in there. I fixed it for you. 😄
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I think there should be a new option on the poll."After fighting for hours, they gradually become more and more attracted to each other. Suddenly, trapping her in a vicious bear-hug, Colossus kisses her passionately. She-Hulk, caught off guard, can't help but kiss back. One things leads to another...and the night ends with a demolished hotel room."
Yea. I'd vote for that option.
Dude... I'm sure that she's not going to try to convert him or switch him...
Most women DO have GAYdar you know...
😉
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I read it. She trained for...what was it, two weeks?And beat up an guy who has trained for thirteen billion years. 🤨
Three months. And, yes. She sure did. So much so, in fact, that he didn't appear to lay a glove on her, several times when she struck him it created so much kinetic energy that there was a visible explosion, and left him bloodied and beaten at the end.
And she would very likely do the same to Colossus.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Three months. And, yes. She sure did. So much so, in fact, that he didn't appear to lay a glove on her, several times when she struck him it created so much kinetic energy that there was a visible explosion, and left him bloodied and beaten at the end.
Three months...versus thirteen billion years. Champion also (I suppose) had Power Primordial. I think that sounds like a case of:
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.
Stats of Power Primordial:
Known Superhuman Powers: The Champion controls the power primordial, the energy derived from the Big Bang itself. He has channeled this power into the development of his physical form: his musculature, his reflexes, his stamina, and his strength, while the exercise of human strength taps electro-chemical energies of the complex molecules in the body, the Champion's strength taps cosmic nuclear energies. His physical strength is only determined by the amount of cosmic energy his finite form can contain. This limit has yet to be seen. He apparently never tires since his body has the ability to tap whatever energies it needs to recuperate. He cannot be hurt by any means short of molecular dispersion. Having channeled all of the cosmic energy as his command into making his body a perfect fighting machine, the Champion can no longer direct that energy from his body into force-blast as many other energy manipulators can.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Obviously the guy with a name like "MetalMan" and a Colossus sig is going to claim that his boy will win.Unfortunately, if you've read enough issues of both characters, you can see that this simply isn't the case. 😄
If you think I'm biased, than that's your opinion. I know when Colossus is beat, and I own up to it. But this just isn't one of those times.
As Dark Crawler already mentioned, that victory over Champion was the biggest load of crap, and one of the very worst actions in comics, in my opinion.
Even without the gem, Champion should've curbstomped her the same way he did before.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Three months...versus thirteen billion years.
Those are rhetorical questions, by the way. The answers are: no, yes, yes, and yes.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Champion also (I suppose) had Power Primordial. I think that sounds like a case of: [PIS]
Originally posted by Metalmanx
If you think I'm biased, than that's your opinion. I know when Colossus is beat, and I own up to it. But this just isn't one of those times.As Dark Crawler already mentioned, that victory over Champion was the biggest load of crap, and one of the very worst actions in comics, in my opinion.
Even without the gem, Champion should've curbstomped her the same way he did before.
So, rather than own up to the canon fact that She-Hulk beat Champion in a well-written fight, you're going to dismiss it out of hand?
That's not convincing anyone except yourself.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Sounds like an assumption of quantity over quality. Does Champion have an alternate form wherein his powers increase exponentially? Didn't Champion previously have throw-downs with guys like the Thing? Wouldn't that mean that, a priori, we know that his much-vaunted 13 billion years of training left him somewhere within reach of someone with training many orders of magnitude less lengthy? Wouldn't that make your whole argument a red herring?Those are rhetorical questions, by the way. The answers are: no, yes, yes, and yes.
I've never seen Champion fighting Thing. Have to get that issue...
No, actually it's quality over lesser quality. I believe that a being that has had billions of years to perfect himself in arts of fighting, would have achieved better quality in fighting then someone who trains for three months, even if it is with the best.
Originally posted by Melnorme
This is not the case. As stated before, Champion for all his so-called "power primordial" abilities is still rated in the same category as a high 100-Tonner. She-Hulk surpassed his strength and beat him silly. You call it stupidity, but offer up no reason why except for rehashing some 60's wankage definition of what the "power primordial" is supposed to be. We judge things by what they do, not by how flowery their descriptions are.
The Champion is one of the alien Elders of the Universe. He is an immortal who keeps himself busy by fighting assorted superheroes, including The Thing, The Incredible Hulk, Colossus, Thor, and Wonder Man. Although he wishes to prove himself the greatest warrior in the universe, he does so fairly. For example, in his first appearance, he fought the Thing and defeated him with ease, but the Thing would not surrender; when forced to choose between killing his defeated opponent or yielding, the Champion yielded.While exercising, the bodies of humans taps into electro-chemical energies found in their molecular structure. The Champion's body, however, taps into cosmic nuclear energy during exercise. As a result, the Champion possesses virtually limitless physical strength, the limits of which aren't known. However, he once destroyed an entire planet with the force generated by a single punch after jumping several thousand feet into the air. Hence, his strength vastly exceeds the Class 100 level, being able to lift in excess of 100 tons. The Champion's physical strength is only determined by the amount of cosmic force that his body can contain.
Aside from his vast strength, his body does not tire from physical exertion, since his musculature generates no lactic acids. The Champion is not limited by the need for food, drink, or sleep. The Power Primordial is all that is required to sustain him.
The Champion's body is virtually invulnerable against all forms of conventional injury. His body is capable of resisting penetration wounds, extreme temperatures of heat or cold, corrosives, etc. Only an injury that resulted in the dispertion of a great majority of his bodily molecules could, potentially cause him life threatning injury. The Champion's body is functionally immortal and he is immune to the effects of aging and is immune to all diseases and infections. The Champion can survive indefinitely and unaided in the vacuum of space. As he becomes angry, he subconsciously draws in further amounts of energy from his surroundings, increasing his abilities even further, most notably his physical strength.
Having channeled all of the cosmic energy at his command to transform his body into a practically perfect fighting machine, the Champion isn't able to direct the energy into force-blasts, unlike most of the other Elders.
Although being nearly as old as the universe itself, the Champion is not as intelligent as the other Elders of the Universe, partially due to the fact that most of the other Elders have chosen to devote at least some of their energies to the development of their minds as well as their physical bodies, his experience and knowledge could still be considered well beyond that of an average human. However, when it comes to physical combat, his knowledge and expertise is unmatched. He is as formidable at hand to hand combat as a being could be and is a master of every fighting style that exists across the Universe.
When not "jobbering" to the heroes of Marvel, Champion is nearly undefeatable in hand to hand combat.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I've never seen Champion fighting Thing. Have to get that issue...No, actually it's quality over lesser quality. I believe that a being that has had billions of years to perfect himself in arts of fighting, would have achieved better quality in fighting then someone who trains for three months, even if it is with the best.
Years is a measure of time, hence quantity. You are measuring quantity as opposed to quality. Champion does not have an alternate form that allows him to benefit from exponential gains from training, and wasn't coached by Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Drax, and Gamora. You don't even address these points. You just copy-paste wikipedia instead of looking at the facts. I've read that article too, before you reposted it in fact. I'm not terribly impressed by some fan's definition of what Champion did in the 60's. In the 21st century, he got beat down. 😄
Originally posted by Melnorme
Years is a measure of time, hence quantity. You are measuring quantity as opposed to quality. Champion does not have an alternate form that allows him to benefit from exponential gains from training, and wasn't coached by Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Drax, and Gamora. You don't even address these points. You just copy-paste wikipedia instead of looking at the facts. I've read that article too, before you reposted it in fact. I'm not terribly impressed by some fan's definition of what Champion did in the 60's. In the 21st century, he got beat down. 😄
But if he was able to do so in sixties, why not in 21st? Was he powered down? So in three months, Silver Surfer (he is master of fighting?), Gladiator (same), Drax (he as never been master of fighting to my recall) and Gamora (Only one with exeptional fighting skills, are able to deliver training that equals billions of years of constant fighting? Billions of years of perfecting to be a...perfect fighting machine? Billions of years of channeling the Power Primordial to reflexes, speed, strenght and durability?
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But if he was able to do so in sixties, why not in 21st? Was he powered down?
Why was Tyson a monger at 20, but a chump at 30? Perhaps Champion has been boozing it up a bit? Maybe he got too used to the edge given him from wearing the Gem of Power constantly for years? Maybe the constraints of the rules of boxing didn't allow him to capitalize on all his skills? Maybe he really underestimated Jennifer given their first bout?
I'll concede that you're right...under the rules of these forums, Champion would certainly win a majority, but even with bloodlust and no PIS, I think it would be a slim majority. The writers were definitely trying to convey one thought: Jennifer is much stronger than she used to be. It's shown in every panel they draw of her from that point out: she's ripped, even for a She-Hulk. When she returns to Earth, she's so powerful that she needs to see Reed Richards to figure out a way to contain her new might. Even while wearing a strength-limiting "Jupiter Suit", she's lifting the Thing's heaviest 100-ton training weight with one hand and shows no signs of strain.
Bottom Line: She's a very serious powerhouse right now. Colossus has a slight edge in toughness...maybe...but Jennifer is many times stronger than he is, and a well-trained fighter as well. Colossus wouldn't stand a chance.
I still find this as speculation, seeing as 616 Coloussus really hasn't shown any sort of super-powered strength feat in the past few years. We don't truly know how strong 616 Colossus is right now.
Colosuss' durability far exceeds hers. That's really not up for debate, it's just fact.
And I'd estimate their fighting skills to be about even, seeing as how Colossus has been trained by both Cyclops and Wolverine (as well as the Danger room for most of his life), and Shulkie has been trained by Cap.
Given She-Hulk is a comedy series, with past volumes breaking the 4th wall, it's not as contrained to logic or continunity (I can think of 2 or 3 gags that contradict regular continuity- I haven't read it in months, there's probably more). It's somewhat akin to taking Plastic Man's solo series as serious examples of feats (where he literally exhibits Toon Force abilities). I considered the events more a tribute to boxing fiction conventions (training montage, etc.) than a serious display of ability.
Absent regularly occuring feats within her own book or feats in "normal" continuity, I'd be hard pressed to say that is her current strength. If we take her Marvel-Team Up/Marvel Holiday Special 2005 showings, her most recent, then she's been significantly depowered since then. This suggest Marvel's editors don't consider She-Hulk nearly as powerful as her solo series suggested when in regular continunity with other Marvel characters.
If we just take her normal continuity there's an argument for her depowering too. First, it's based on her conditioning as Jen, but during the downtime at the firm she's been lazy, partying, and sleeping with her boyfriend... the only evidence of conditioning is jogging which she did even before her power-up. Further there's her powerup device which she used because her boyfriend disapproves of She-Hulk... if she's anything like her cousin, her emotions can effect her Hulk-state. Jen typically feels empowered by She-Hulk, but now she's borderline ashamed of her.
Regardless, if you want to stick to most recent showings, She-Hulk struggled with a mutant tree that was bound up by Spider-Man's webbing. She seems to have reverted to her traditional strength level.