She-Hulk vs Colossus

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I still find this as speculation, seeing as 616 Coloussus really hasn't shown any sort of super-powered strength feat in the past few years. We don't truly know how strong 616 Colossus is right now.

I don't agree with this line of thought. It's bordering on an appeal to ignorance. Though, I too find it disappointing that there aren't many 100-ton feats to reinforce your claims as to Colossus's strength. Personally, as I've stated, I was under the impression that he was a notch just below the hundred tonners, but I'll take you at your word.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colosuss' durability far exceeds hers. That's really not up for debate, it's just fact.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And I'd estimate their fighting skills to be about even, seeing as how Colossus has been trained by both Cyclops and Wolverine (as well as the Danger room for most of his life), and Shulkie has been trained by Cap.

Also, I'd like to apologize for implying that your opinion shouldn't count due to bias. That wasn't fair on my part. You can certainly have a favorite character, and still be balanced in your opinions. I'm right with you in thinking Colossus is a fantastic character (one of my favorites...I wept when he "died" awhile ago). I just need to show you why I think She-Hulk would take the majority. And of course, you're welcome to change my mind as well. 🙂

Originally posted by Demas
Given She-Hulk is a comedy series, with past volumes breaking the 4th wall, it's not as contrained to logic or continunity (I can think of 2 or 3 gags that contradict regular continuity- I haven't read it in months, there's probably more). It's somewhat akin to taking Plastic Man's solo series as serious examples of feats (where he literally exhibits Toon Force abilities). I considered the events more a tribute to boxing fiction conventions (training montage, etc.) than a serious display of ability.

Absent regularly occuring feats within her own book or feats in "normal" continuity, I'd be hard pressed to say that is her current strength. If we take her Marvel-Team Up/Marvel Holiday Special 2005 showings, her most recent, then she's been significantly depowered since then. This suggest Marvel's editors don't consider She-Hulk nearly as powerful as her solo series suggested when in regular continunity with other Marvel characters.

If we just take her normal continuity there's an argument for her depowering too. First, it's based on her conditioning as Jen, but during the downtime at the firm she's been lazy, partying, and sleeping with her boyfriend... the only evidence of conditioning is jogging which she did even before her power-up. Further there's her powerup device which she used because her boyfriend disapproves of She-Hulk... if she's anything like her cousin, her emotions can effect her Hulk-state. Jen typically feels empowered by She-Hulk, but now she's borderline ashamed of her.

Regardless, if you want to stick to most recent showings, She-Hulk struggled with a mutant tree that was bound up by Spider-Man's webbing. She seems to have reverted to her traditional strength level.

I'm not sure how accurate that is. Jen's been upgraded several times in her continuity, and has never "slipped" backwards in power. Just because they don't show her pumping iron in the 20-someodd pages of a book, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The rest of it, about Byrne's series etc. Well, Byrne isn't writing these, and I don't think the tone of a book sets its canonicity.

Colossus, by far...the better fighter, the greater strengh plus he has that sinister side...that makes him a dangerous opponent for "Jan"
all she has in mind is where to get the next bedmate...that saucy wench...😐...😖hifty:

Originally posted by RogerRamjet
Colossus, by far...the better fighter, the greater strengh plus he has that sinister side...that makes him a dangerous opponent for "Jan"
all she has in mind is where to get the next bedmate...that saucy wench...😐...😖hifty:

Her name is "Jen", not "Jan".

You, sir, know nothing! 😉

Originally posted by RogerRamjet
Colossus, by far...the better fighter, the greater strengh plus he has that sinister side...that makes him a dangerous opponent for "Jan"
all she has in mind is where to get the next bedmate...that saucy wench...😐...😖hifty:

I guess this is your first post to KMC Versus forums?

(We really need to make a information center for new guys/gals)

For the life of me I can't remember the last time Colossus hit someone so hard that it did this...

Originally posted by Melnorme
For the life of me I can't remember the last time Colossus hit someone so hard that it did this...

Pfft. Tame. 😛

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/2563/incrediblehulk118187ji.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3936/incrediblehulk118195ly.jpg
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9269/incrediblehulk118200el.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4384/incrediblehulk118211kg.jpg

Neither of those looks like Colossus.

And, actually, I'd say causing the air around you to ignite with the force of a blow is a little more impressive than making a little splash. 😛

And finally, that wasn't just Namor...it was the Hulk, too. Shulkie did that on her little ol' lonesome.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I guess this is your first post to KMC Versus forums?

(We really need to make a information center for new guys/gals)

ah...no actually it isn't...just look up my "backpages"

and what information can be retrieved there? that every opinion which differs from the ones who post here more often, is wrong?

is there something i need to look up or something? 😕

Originally posted by RogerRamjet
ah...no actually it isn't...just look up my "backpages"

and what information can be retrieved there? that every opinion which differs from the ones who post here more often, is wrong?

is there something i need to look up or something? 😕

If you had read up more often here, you would know that She-Hulk has had an strength upgrade. You could ask if She-Hulk has gained any more strenght lately or is she still at Class 85 levels...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Neither of those looks like Colossus.

And, actually, I'd say causing the air around you to ignite with the force of a blow is a little more impressive than making a little splash. 😛

And finally, that wasn't just Namor...it was the Hulk, too. Shulkie did that on her little ol' lonesome.

Yeah, but don't forget that Namor made about half of that force.

In my opinion, causing an tsunami that topples supertankers is more impressive. 😛

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yeah, but don't forget that Namor made about half of that force.

In my opinion, causing an tsunami that topples supertankers is more impressive. 😛

Well...whatev. Jen's stronger than Namor as well. 😆

Namor would still defeat her.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor would still defeat her.

Probably, but it would be a narrow margin.

But back to the topic at hand...I might have to revise my opinion on her fighting skill. She may in fact have a few moves that Colossus can't handle. I totally forgot about this scene...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Probably, but it would be a narrow margin.

There was an thread for that, if you wish to discuss more...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=377494

Originally posted by Melnorme

But back to the topic at hand...I might have to revise my opinion on her fighting skill. She may in fact have a few moves that Colossus can't handle. I totally forgot about this scene...

And likewise, wouldn't Colossus have some moves that she wouldn't know? They hardly recieved the same training...I think Colossus has been also doing this longer, he started as an teenager, and isn't he like close to 30 now? I mean in comic book age, chronologically he would be about 45...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And likewise, wouldn't Colossus have some moves that she wouldn't know? They hardly recieved the same training...I think Colossus has been also doing this longer, he started as an teenager, and isn't he like close to 30 now? I mean in comic book age, chronologically he would be about 45...

Originally posted by Melnorme
But back to the topic at hand...I might have to revise my opinion on her fighting skill. She may in fact have a few moves that Colossus can't handle. I totally forgot about this scene...

Haha, I didn't, but I honestly didn't consider it relevant. Sort of akin to claiming Savage Hulk is a brilliant scientific mind in the field of gamma radiation. She-Hulk is her own self-induced character stupidity- like a recklessness that doesn't care if reality folds up on itself because she messes with the time continuum- even if Jen knows the moves, She-Hulk is unlikely to use them... and even possibly can't, much of martial arts is muscle memory which we can't garantee carries over to her body shifting by some feet and several hundred pounds.

Regarding book tone... I don't think I take the GLA or New Warriors 100% as continunity... regardless, I'm certainly not saying She-Hulk is weak by any means, but until I see more feats I'm not going to consider her as powerful as the previous volumes boxing match and certainly her appearances in other books suggest those writers/editors don't consider her as powerful.

Originally posted by Demas
Haha, I didn't, but I honestly didn't consider it relevant. Sort of akin to claiming Savage Hulk is a brilliant scientific mind in the field of gamma radiation. She-Hulk is her own self-induced character stupidity- like a recklessness that doesn't care if reality folds up on itself because she messes with the time continuum- even if Jen knows the moves, She-Hulk is unlikely to use them... and even possibly can't, much of martial arts is muscle memory which we can't garantee carries over to her body shifting by some feet and several hundred pounds.

Highly speculative. She knows the moves, and knows how to fight. She's used to switching back and forth...it didn't seem to present a problem vs Champion, so I don't know where you're getting this from. On the same token, why don't you propose limiting Colossus in the same way? At least Jen's still made of flesh and bone...Colossus can't even feel, or smell, or presumably see and hear the same way he does 90% of the rest of the time. Why doesn't that completely screw up his abilities?

Originally posted by Demas
Regarding book tone... I don't think I take the GLA or New Warriors 100% as continunity... regardless, I'm certainly not saying She-Hulk is weak by any means, but until I see more feats I'm not going to consider her as powerful as the previous volumes boxing match and certainly her appearances in other books suggest those writers/editors don't consider her as powerful.

I'm going with the latter.

Originally posted by Melnorme
She's significantly more powerful than you seem to realize. Which is understandable, because apparently you didn't read that series.

At my LCS today I picked up the issue where she fought Champion. The artist made him look like a 90 year old man. The whole story seemed more like a joke.

But that's my opinion.