Sidious - The Debate

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Considering the Count Of Monte Cristo choreographer would apply to the Count of Monte Cristo alone...

Gee, most people with brains would consider quotations from the man who created Sidious's fighting style to be some bit of evidence-which it is. And yes, Gillard both choreographed the fights and created the fighting styles for the movies

Apparently you cannot read.

hy·per·bo·le ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pûrb-l)
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

And again...

An appeal to authority is a type of argument in logic also known as argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect) or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it, where an unsupported assertion depends on the asserter's credibility). It is one method of obtaining propositional knowledge and is often a logical fallacy. Some examples of appeals to authority:

Referring to the philosophical beliefs of Aristotle. "If Aristotle said it was so, it is so".
Quotes from religious books such as the Bible. "The Bible says X, therefore X is the right thing".
Claiming that some crime is morally wrong because it is illegal. "It's against the law for stores to be open on weekends, therefore it's wrong for them to do so".
Referencing scientific research published in a peer reviewed journal. "Science (in the form of an article in a prestigious journal) says X, therefore X is so".
Believing what one is told by one's teacher. "My teacher said so, therefore it must be right."

If you have a point, make it

I did. It's obvious you can't understand your own logical failings. It's just a pity that you actually have some avid supporters here.

What is your point here exactly? Me actually citing official sources is a bad thing?

What's next, JRR Tolkien being wrong about LOTR?

Uh, if JRR Tolkien says that Legolas can pwn Gimli in combat, he would know.

If some fan site has a supposed quote from a choreographer from the movie(without a direct source or origin) who says that Legolas is godly and can pwn all and moves mountains with his fake hair and YOU insist we listen to him because it is "official", I would be disinclined to believe in your foolishness.

Supposed quote? I already had another source and that little detail comes from SW.com with Lucas quotes and others. Now, is Nick Gillard official or is he not?

And if they posted up false quotes-they need permission- they'd get sued by Nick'n Lucasfilm instantly

I love how you dance circles around the real points here....

You are using a source from a battle choreographer to say that Sidious is godly at combat. This is a flimsy source, since it uses BIAS, HYPERBOLE, and overall you are APPEALING TO AUTHORITY.

Now, when you're done skimming my posts and acting like a complete ignoramus, maybe you can show me some EVIDENCE from the movies and/or books that says that Sidious is a sabergod. If you can't, zip it. You are making the assertion that Sidious is the fek all in saber combat and is the uber badass that makes you mess your Star Wars sheets at night. If you refuse to back it up with anything more substantial than a quote from a battle choreographer (Despite the fact that the ROTS script has Sidious getting tooled by Yoda, so apparently Yoda is MORE uber than that. He must be able to kill ANYONE with any weapon at any time, while cooking pasta in an easy bake oven) go away and take your Sidious fanclub with you.

What exactly is the problem? NG made up the style of Sidious and the database doesn't contradict him, nor does anything I see in the movies lead me to think otherwise.
It's all very logical actually and safe to assume.

So please, if there are any arguments to why Sidious would not know what NG claims, then please say it so it can be discussed.

*Yawn* Where is Sidious ever 'tooled' by Yoda? If he was, we wouldn't have an OT. Who's acting like Sidious is the be all end all? Why would such a reputed site use false information when everything else there was proven true and they have direct correlation with Lucasfilm and Nick himself?

Geez, the end all arguments of the beaten...

Yeah, it seems as though people were a little bit too impressed by Yoda's impractical summersaults. Fact is though that Ataru has a lot of flaws if the fight goes on long enough.

*Yawn*

Oh, dramatics. Roleplaying for us? How cute.

Where is Sidious ever 'tooled' by Yoda?

Yoda DISARMED him according to the OFFICIAL script. Go find it. Or don't you know anything about Star Wars?

See? I can act like you too!

If he was, we wouldn't have an OT.

No shit, Sherlock.

Who's acting like Sidious is the be all end all? Why would such a reputed site use false information when everything else there was proven true and they have direct correlation with Lucasfilm and Nick himself?

Obviously you and logic don't both exist in the same realm.

The problem with your argument is that you are stating that NG's comments are undeniable facts, when in reality they are logically fallacious and unproven in the source material. NG's credibility as both a biased person and a mere battle choreographer both come into play. NG also said that Anakin Skywalker is a Level 9 along with Mace Windu, Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, etc. His evidence? None. Now if GL comes out of his proverbial closet and says "Sidious is the best Sith of all time, including EU and the movies, etc. etc." I would take it seriously.

Now, do you have any evidence?

There is no evidence for him being the best (evidence is such a big word) but let's focus on the other duelists in that case, shall we?

Never shown in the movie. No more canon there than some other details. IE: Shaak Ti being killed by Grievous. And in the 'official script', Luke is 18 and Leia 16 at the time of ANH

Nick's evidence? Well, he only has Anakin destroy Dooku...and he only created their fighting styles...and he's the only official source on the matter....hey, why don't I say George is a CGI whore and won't admit that suited Vader was made in a time there wasn't abundant CGI. He's certainly a biased sort when it comes to Vader's weaknesses

Oh, yes. A Master =/= the best

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Never shown in the movie. No more canon there than some other details. IE: Shaak Ti being killed by Grievous. And in the 'official script', Luke is 18 and Leia 16 at the time of ANH

Nick's evidence? Well, he only has Anakin destroy Dooku...and he only created their fighting styles...and he's the only official source on the matter....hey, why don't I say George is a CGI whore and won't admit that suited Vader was made in a time there wasn't abundant CGI. He's certainly a biased sort when it comes to Vader's weaknesses

Obviously you are a complete moron. Your own vaunted Leland Chee says this about canon...

As of 2000, Lucas Licensing has appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.

The Holocron is divided into 4 levels: G-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies, the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, and the radio plays. G-canon always overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.
C-canon is pretty much everything in the Expanded Universe; SW books, comics, and games. Games are a special case as generally only the stories are C-canon while things like stats and gameplay are N-canon. Though even certain things from stats and gameplay have made their way over to C-canon occasionally.
S-canon is "secondary" canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
N-canon is "non-canon". What-if stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), game stats, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm

Oh, and about Nick...

http://www.starwars.com/bio/nickgillard.html

Do you have anything else to add, or will you be crying in a corner somewhere with your Sidious pillow?

Alright, so he was disarmed, big deal. I admit I was wrong there.

And thanks for proving my Nick Gillard point

Where in that article did it say Nick was anything more than a stunt coordinator?

To do this, Gillard had to create a fictional martial art that has an authentic, time-honored feel. Rather than assembling a pastiche of various martial arts, Gillard worked to create a distinctive technique that is based on the fact that the Jedi have specifically "chosen the sword as their weapon."

I'd say this lends credence on an official source for any type of discussion on lightsaber combat.

And below that is says for TPM.

Nowhere does it proclaim Nick Gillard as the master know it all of a fictional character's abilities.

He's a stunt coordinator, period.

Except the idea that he created the styles. And that biography was written years ago. Why do you ignore the quotes on the other page that do say Gillard put Sidious's style together?