Demonic Phoenix
Senior Member
Originally posted by BloodRain
O_o Big read..
5m is about correct given his height. Thing to remember is that unlike a real chained blade, his yo-yo's back to him makes it a lil bit easier. Anyway, I'm good with giving him peak attack speed.
Yeah, sorry about that. You're in for another long read. 😛 In case you do decide to respond to this overtly large-ass post of mine, I'll try to keep future posts short.
Kratos is 8+ feet according to a developer, which is 2m+, and the chains reach a length of roughly 3-4 times his size as best as I can remember. They can reach much farther though.
While it does return to him, he likely has to pull it back himself, i.e. the Blades don't come back via their own momentum/energy, like a Yo-Yo would. One more thing, when the blade returns to his palm, the chain disconnects itself. When he thrusts it out again, it has to connect again. That would slow it down a little.
So Kratos operating at peak human speeds would be able revolve two chain-blades thrice each, and then thrust them out quite far 4 times each, all in a little over a second? Doesn't make much sense.
It also makes no sense considering gameplay speed in GoW is slower than canon speed, as is the case with a number of games like this.
Originally posted by BloodRain
No strike is dependant solely on speed or strength, even fiction wise. But ok, an example to speed making power in DMC would be in the tower run. Throws his sword into some Blood Goyles and it only impales them, after he shoots it and increases the speed the blade destroys the Goyles. So speed is a factor in force for him. [Gilgamesh is via magic so rules bend in that.] Realised that so I went to the closer to home Cloud who's jumping is based on strength. In the end its more theory that Kratos can run at a speed that matches his jumping.
Strikes such as punches are solely dependent on momentum and by extension, how much force is delivered at the point of contact. Momentum is related to mass & speed/velocity. In fiction, characters being able punch hard is typically attributed to strength, but then again, most of these characters are likely very fast as well when it comes to limb movements.
Using the 'it's magic' card again? I could use that for certain points you try to argue. 313
Beowulf is said to amp his speed and strength (despite him not getting any noticeable speed amp), so Beowulf increasing his striking power is understandable. Gilgamesh would amp his striking power if it added a considerable amount of mass to his limbs, which in actuality, it likely doesn't.
Either way, since it amps his strength, Gilgamesh wouldn't be of much concern to Kratos, as he takes attacks from enemies vastly stronger than Dante, and he's also taken punches from Zeus, who likely has lightning fast punches. (outside of gameplay obviously)
Not exactly a theory. Like I said before, he preps for a jump just like a regular human would, which shows that he is using his leg muscles to jump. His jumps aren't tied to some unknown factor like Kain & Sora.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Even if its gameplay the struggle, even if its slight, is evident. The players closest thing to a solid chance is when he's taking a breather. Besides that he's almost running rings around him, and this was with him tired, injured and after large blood loss. He may be able to react to his movements but his body isn't cant compete to match and catch him. From a metronome count it did in no way seem like it took 300,000th of a second to execute, only a fast kick. Hermes running down was slower then Poseiden's sonic flight and Charon was slower then Mach numbers in that scene. [just checked it] Hah, a petty me would say his reactions are bad for the slow way he reacted. What I do want to know is what that green fire that clean knocked him out was. The only Persephone scene I saw had her flying as fast as those rocks were falling.
Even though he apparently 'struggles' against Hermes, he can react to Hermes' drop kicks which take about as much time as a Lightning Stroke does. He can also tag Hermes even when Hermes is running, and he can roll out of the way of Hermes' punches. The rolls themselves, at their fastest, are faster than Hermes' slower run in the fight. His Nemesis Whip Evade is even faster.
He can also roll out of the way of Zeus' bolts once they are launched (in gameplay, dunno if that translates over to canon), but unless he parries the second bolt, he'll typically end up eating it.
His body can actually keep up to his extreme reactions. An obvious case being when Persephone exploded at her death. He was a few feet from her, and was able to save himself, by blocking with the Sun Shield. Said explosion being well into high hypersonic due to its magnitude.
That's because you are measuring the gameplay speed and assuming that that is exactly how fast the GoW world canonically operates, when it is not.
I've already provided the screenshots comparing Kratos' reactions & Hermes' kick to a Lightning bolt that occurs in the sky (those files). Hermes' jump kick consists of him jumping in the air, and attempting a drop-kick. If he misses, he enters his 'landing' motions. The 'jump'+'kick' portions take less time than a Lightning bolt takes to appear & disappear (which is on average, 30 microseconds if it is composed of one stroke). A basic quick attack from Kratos is a little faster (in terms of time elapsed) than said bolt.
Each stroke in a lightning bolt takes on average 30 microseconds. It can be higher, or lower, but it is always in the low microsecond range. The lightning itself in the sky has only one flash, which indicates only one stroke.
When Kratos reacts to the kick (he only does so when Hermes' feet are a few inches from his face), & assuming the reaction starts at the same time a Lightning bolt starts, Kratos would have already dodged the kick and grabbed Hermes before the bolt had completely disappeared.
How did you calculate Charon's speed?
That green fire was an unblockable attack even though Kratos has the Sun Shield. I believe it's unavoidable as well.
Ehh, those rocks had fallen quite a distance, so they had likely reached terminal velocity. Also, while she was flying upwards, she likely wasn't moving at top speed, as I think she demonstrates faster movement when Kratos drops (once after removing his blade as she flies up, and once after he chains Atlas to carry the World)
Originally posted by BloodRain
There seems to be a trend of the bosses, their movement speed can get to high supersonic but have less impressive combat speed. Nevertheless all this shows Kratos having great reactions even if he's body cant keep up.
We never really see their combat speed outside of gameplay. Though Persephone regularly flies towards him at high speed in gameplay. Zeus does it as well in the first part of their fight in 3, and his speed in those instances is much faster than the speed of his bolts.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Phew haven't dealt with large posts in a while, oh and those files aren't opening on my comp. [Most likely a fault on my said :/] What's on theses files and to what were they answering?
a) Do you have WinRAR? If not, here's a link. http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
b)They are Bitmap files (the type MS paint typically uses) with screenshots comparing the Kratos+Hermes kick QTE to a lightning stroke, and Hermes' missed kick to a Lightning stroke.
I hope your computer can open .jpg files. >__>
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CQNSX1K1 - screenshots archived in .RAR - use WinRAR
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M8Q1JJMK - screenshots archived in .ZIP - use WinZIP
Originally posted by BloodRain
Cant make out whats happening in that comic but that chap in the second to last panal is responding and talking to him as he speeds around. Would be tran/sonic, though I was never good with comic feats.
Such shit occurs all the time in comics. People like The Flash, Superman, Green Lantern, Thor etc. all talk while moving & fighting at close to Light Speed, if not FTL, and the other character(s) are still somehow able to register every word and respond back in the same panel.
I wouldn't use those speech bubbles as an indicator of speed.
As for what's happening in the scan:
Hermes is the red blur.
In the third panel, you see him run down from some ledge that is far away, and he passes the other gods who are talking. He starts off on a ledge that has 4 orangish light dots on it, which is possibly Hermes' head.
In the second-to-last panel, Hermes is pouring wine into 6 different cups at the same time. We'll likely get more speed feats of Hermes as the comic series continues.