Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nobody is saying the woman would be responsible for his actions. Just not doing anything to prevent them, which means she's somewhat to blame. Not for the act, but for not doing anything to prevent it.I genuinely do not know how many of the people here have to continue saying this before it actually sinks through.
-AC
Because they think being "new men" is the only way into a girls pants!
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nobody is saying the woman would be responsible for his actions. Just not doing anything to prevent them, which means she's somewhat to blame. Not for the act, but for not doing anything to prevent it.I genuinely do not know how many of the people here have to continue saying this before it actually sinks through.
-AC
Oh, I agree with you, to a degree - people need to be aware of the dangers, and act accordingly, because as I said - there are always people ready to take advantage. It's a dangerous world we live in.
Certainly there are things that can be done to mitigate risk, and not doing them is a problem, and a bad thing to do. People need to learn. However the crime is still rape. I know what your saying about how charges are viewed, but there isn't a charge for provoking rape, or for dressing and drinking in a way that leads to certain people taking advantage of the situation - yes, a bit of blame might rest with them for not taking steps before hand, but then it is impossible to completely eliminate all risk ( as we know plenty of rapes take place when a person is sober and dressed sensibly.) I guess what I was getting at is that the way she is dressed shouldn't influence any investigation - dress style shouldn't make he statements any more or less valid, though level of intoxication are very relevant.
Still, I would like more information on this topic, such as a definition of "drinking" - how much have they drunk, how effected by it and where were they drinking.
Because they think being "new men" is the only way into a girls pants!
Hehehe. Not quite sure what a new man is, I imagine it's a polar oppisite to the chaps in your sig. Still, not quite sure what a persons views on rape have to do with new men and getting into girls pants. 😉
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I can't understand why you would have kirk in ur sig... Riker would of been the better choice...
I disagree. Koik is de man...hell, who kicked the bad guy's ass in the movie "Star Trek: Generations"? Who's got a flying double-kick almost as lethal as the all-poweful Batkick? Who's got the toupe that doesn't fly off even when Spock's freakin' out from blue balls?
Nobody bed's the galaxy's babes like James T.
If continually telling yourself that I am upset, helps you make amends with yourself over having the complete wrong view on this, then by all means.Yeah, must be because you're such a smart kid and everything, still.. Don't just go laugh at everything I say because you're upset."Teens don't have a fully developed brain yet".
Hahaha, funniest comment of all time. It's developed ENOUGH to know what you do and what you just don't do. Especially at 16 and over.
And yeah, you do come across as frustrated as this discussion is about nothing already. Look at yourself, what do you want from me? Do you expect me to say: wow, you make so much sense by questioning every little thing I say, hell.. I shouldn't input to a thread in the first place. I should stfu!
Whoa slow down there, blank round. Where did you get "all trust" from? I'm questioning YOUR logic. If the legal age of consent is 16 in many countries (an age generally and legally considered to be an age of independent responsibility unless you live in the 50's or unless you're you) then why on Earth do you adopt the blinkered idea that teens brains are not yet developed enough to realise what IS and what ISN'T tempting fate?Well, go question yourself before you get all insane on my ass. And you still shouldn't question the facts of life because the government does something wich leads you to assume all kinds of stuff.
You are making the old excuse that young people aren't aware of their actions, which is BS.Wow, you're really good at making your points there and convincing me. But no, they are aware of what they do but they aren't all smart enough to know every risk involving their actions like you expect from everybody.
YES, it is normal and accepted. Which MIGHT be why rape occurs as often as it does. Ever think of this? Ever think, at all?You do realise that it's only a third of the rapes wich happen under influence? Either way, we can't even state that as a fact because it's not reported most of the times. They just go out to have a good time wich is normal and not all realise the actual dangers of certain aspects of going out.
A) I don't, why is this relevant?Man, d00d, man, I'm so funny ain't I? Or is it because you are just attacking me?B) I'm not. I'm just telling you why yours is illogical, dangerous and non-sensical. If you want to continue holding that opinion, go for it.
C) Threatened? That's the third...maybe fourth funniest thing you've said.
And if you would really let me have my own opinion then you wouldn't have responded nutty like this. Still.. You are greatly exagurating about my view being illogical, dangerous and nonsensical. If you would even comprehend my original message then maybe you would find yourself insane to have responded like you did.
Rape isn't extreme? Maybe this is why your attitude to it is so frighteningly lenient.Putting words in my mouth? You really view this as some kind of far out e-battle, don't you? And if you would read the thread again and comprehend what I have told a million times then you would perhaps understand that my so called attitude isn't at all threatening to anybody.
No, I'm expecting them to know that going out dressed provocatively and getting drunk makes them easy prey for rapists. If they don't know that, it's dangerous. If they do and still do it, then they are partially to blame for any negative consequence. Most of them do know, because 16 years olds and up, contrary to your belief, do have brains that are capable of rational thought.Contrary to popular believe.. You just make up whole facts don't you? It's more that you don't want to believe that the brain isn't fully developt yet during their teens. That's why some do even more irrational things than dress 'provocatively'..
Why are you making stuff up? Who is mentioning whether it's ok or not? I'm not against how a girl wants to dress, it's her choice. However, if a 16 year old girl dresses up with the purpose of looking attractive or in a manner that shows a lot of skin, then she is going to attract male attention. Whether she wants to or not. If she doesn't want this, she need only dress appropriately. If she chooses not to, she has no right to complain.I don't know why you said that dressing comment but I'm not making stuff up, don't worry.A girl cannot walk out of her house with a mega short skirt and a shirt that shows a lot, then say "I don't like these men staring at me." It's stupid.
For the rest; that comment was decent. Far better than all the other nonsense you need to discuss for some reason. But stating your opinion like a fact doesn't convince me if that is still your intention anyway.
You're making it sound like she can expect abuse with dressing oh so provocatively. Maybe girls go outside their houses whilst naked in the UK but they don't do that here and they are still being taken advantage of.
So I guess that just focusing on the clothes doesn't help solve the problem does it? Although it seems the easy way out of a subject as this.
Welcome to the news, up next: Can Overlord stay on topic? A recent study proves that no, he cannot.Was that supposed to be funny or do you want me to leap in some insane rage as you? But it's actually you who keeps straying off topic to make an even elaborate useless discussion.
And although you decide to mock me: I still believe that you come across as insane to elevate my original message like that.
Well yes there is, why are you being stupid?Just look at what you are doing, you rave on like a madman with my best suited quotes. Maybe I should constantly confront you about the off base things you say.Here is a single point, reply to it:
If a woman dresses provocatively, gets drunk around men and consequently raped during intoxication, do you NOT agree that it retracts credibility from her claim? That she is partly responsible?
Oh, of course not. Because you believe teens brains aren't developed.
Bs.
-AC
And to the question: no, I don't believe she is partly responsible if she gets 'consequently' raped by men she meets at bars just because she wears oh so provocative clothes and consumes alcohol like everybody else in the world.
She should however report the guys who do this instead of feeling guilty like a lot of them do.
What do you want from me? A discussion about giving a rape victim some blame too? Go take a day off to rethink what is actually so important about this useless discussion.
-Overlord, out! (till tomorrow, AC!)
Originally posted by overlord
Yeah, must be because you're such a smart kid and everything, still.. Don't just go laugh at everything I say because you're upset.
That again? New material is needed, I sense desperation.
Originally posted by overlord
And yeah, you do come across as frustrated as this discussion is about nothing already. Look at yourself, what do you want from me? Do you expect me to say: wow, you make so much sense by questioning every little thing I say, hell.. I shouldn't input to a thread in the first place. I should stfu!
If you wanna tell me where I said this is what I want, then I'll admit to wanting it. I want you to start reading my posts and stop acting stupid, that would be at the top of my wish list right now. Can you do that?
Originally posted by overlord
Well, go question yourself before you get all insane on my ass. And you still shouldn't question the facts of life because the government does something wich leads you to assume all kinds of stuff.Wow, you're really good at making your points there and convincing me. But no, they are aware of what they do but they aren't all smart enough to know every risk involving their actions like you expect from everybody.
I'm not saying that EVERY single teen always has the 100% presence of mind to stay out of trouble, but what you are proposing is much more unrealistic. 16 year olds aren't "stupid" in the sense that they have absolutely no clue what's going on. Most of the time the dangerous situations they may get themselves into probably comes with curiousity, not the lack of a developed brain.
Either way, you are using that excuse and it's a poor excuse.
Originally posted by overlord
You do realise that it's only a third of the rapes wich happen under influence? Either way, we can't even state that as a fact because it's not reported most of the times. They just go out to have a good time wich is normal and not all realise the actual dangers of certain aspects of going out.
For the millionth time: YES, they have that right and going out to have a "good time" is normal. Going out at 16 dressed like a "good time" girl is not, is it? No. Therefore, if you dress in a way that will quite obviously attract the UNwanted attention of men, you have absolutely no right to complain. Precautions, yes? Look at yourself in the mirror and question "Is this sensible?". You don't need to wear a short skirt and have your breasts on display to have a good time.
Originally posted by overlord
You want to make a discussion about their responsibility.. Wow, just wow.. I guess you must be even more bored than me.Man, d00d, man, I'm so funny ain't I? Or is it because you are just attacking me?
What are you even talking about?
Originally posted by overlord
And if you would really let me have my own opinion then you wouldn't have responded nutty like this. Still.. You are greatly exagurating about my view being illogical, dangerous and nonsensical. If you would even comprehend my original message then maybe you would find yourself insane to have responded like you did. Putting words in my mouth? You really view this as some kind of far out e-battle, don't you? And if you would read the thread again and comprehend what I have told a million times then you would perhaps understand that my so called attitude isn't at all threatening to anybody.
You believe that in no circumstance is a female responsible AT ALL for a rape occuring. What more is there to say? You are quite clearly in the wrong.
Many people here are making that point and you just continually ignore it because as I have come to discover, you are quite unintelligent.
Originally posted by overlord
Contrary to popular believe.. You just make up whole facts don't you? It's more that you don't want to believe that the brain isn't fully developt yet during their teens. That's why some do even more irrational things than dress 'provocatively'..I don't know why you said that dressing comment but I'm not making stuff up, don't worry.
You are, aren't you? Because you're jabbering on about everything and anything except the point at hand. You have been for the past 5 replies more or less.
Making the decision to wear something slutty doesn't mean your brain is undeveloped, it means you're making a stupid decision. Adults make stupid decisions. Humans in general make stupid decisions. It has nothing to do with undeveloped brains. If a girl makes the decision to walk out of her house looking like a sl*t or to a lesser degree, wearing provocative outfits (which everyone here has seemed to grasp, except you) then she cannot deny that it will attract attention. Some men are despicable enough to act on it against her will. Is it her fault that they are like that? No. Did she do all in her power to make sure she isn't inviting it? No.
Originally posted by overlord
For the rest; that comment was decent. Far better than all the other nonsense you need to discuss for some reason. But stating your opinion like a fact doesn't convince me if that is still your intention anyway.You're making it sound like she can expect abuse with dressing oh so provocatively. Maybe girls go outside their houses whilst naked in the UK but they don't do that here and they are still being taken advantage of.
So I guess that just focusing on the clothes doesn't help solve the problem does it? Although it seems the easy way out of a subject as this.
Should she expect abuse? No. Should she expect that her decision may have negative consequence? Yes.
If I walk down the road wearing a t-shirt that says "I am a racist, homophobic guy who kills people." That's my right to wear that, I'm not hurting anyone. Yet if a guy comes over and beats the shit out of me for it, is he right? No. However, I cannot say "I couldn't have prevented it." I could have. My decision to wear that shirt could have gone unnoticed and I might have been fine. On this day however, I came across a guy dumb enough to act it out. I didn't make any effort to stop this happening and so responsibility partially rests on me. Not for his actions, but for mine. The same applies to rape, believe it or not.
Originally posted by overlord
And although you decide to mock me: I still believe that you come across as insane to elevate my original message like that. Just look at what you are doing, you rave on like a madman with my best suited quotes. Maybe I should constantly confront you about the off base things you say.
Off base? What off base things? If it's off base it's because I've come to drag your illiterate, non-sensical self back to topic. You are the one filling up pages with all this "rage" talk.
Originally posted by overlord
And to the question: no, I don't believe she is partly responsible if she gets 'consequently' raped by men she meets at bars just because she wears oh so provocative clothes and consumes alcohol like everybody else in the world. She should however report the guys who do this instead of feeling guilty like a lot of them do.
Well then you are as naive as the teens you refer to and your opinion on this matter is of no consequence or use. You're entitled to it, but it doesn't mean much. Your way of thinking is dangerous and wreckless.
Question: If your daughter was going out of the house wearing provocative clothing to party or club etc, would you not stop her if you had power to? Or at least advise against it? Knowing that there are guys out there who may very well take that the wrong way, and knowing that her choice to dress in such a way is merely increasing the chances of rape or attack?
Or would you just be of the mentality "Go on, have a good time. You wear what you want. If you get raped, is just the man's fault."?
-AC
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Hes the only 1 in the sig whos got normal hair... While Kirk is the man... Rikers beard could easily work there way into the sig...Though personaly I would of had "Dirty harry" eastwood in there over kirk/riker
Ripped Shirt Kirk is a god of camp hijinx, he has the axe handle of doom and the metal pipe from nowhere attack. On a more serious note he was involved in the first on tv screen multi racial kiss.
Lol... You should check out this sight... You will appreciate the chuck facts...
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Lol... You should check out this sight... You will appreciate the chuck facts...
I know it well it used to be my sig 😉 along with this
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Making the decision to wear something slutty doesn't mean your brain is undeveloped, it means you're making a stupid decision. Adults make stupid decisions. Humans in general make stupid decisions. It has nothing to do with undeveloped brains. If a girl makes the decision to walk out of her house looking like a sl*t or to a lesser degree, wearing provocative outfits (which everyone here has seemed to grasp, except you) then she cannot deny that it will attract attention. Some men are despicable enough to act on it against her will. Is it her fault that they are like that? No. Did she do all in her power to make sure she isn't inviting it? No.should she expect abuse? No. Should she expect that her decision may have negative consequence? Yes.
If I walk down the road wearing a t-shirt that says "I am a racist, homophobic guy who kills people." That's my right to wear that, I'm not hurting anyone. Yet if a guy comes over and beats the shit out of me for it, is he right? No. However, I cannot say "I couldn't have prevented it." I could have. My decision to wear that shirt could have gone unnoticed and I might have been fine. On this day however, I came across a guy dumb enough to act it out. I didn't make any effort to stop this happening and so responsibility partially rests on me. Not for his actions, but for mine. The same applies to rape, believe it or not.
Off base? What off base things? If it's off base it's because I've come to drag your illiterate, non-sensical self back to topic. You are the one filling up pages with all this "rage" talk.
Well then you are as naive as the teens you refer to and your opinion on this matter is of no consequence or use. You're entitled to it, but it doesn't mean much. Your way of thinking is dangerous and wreckless.
Question: If your daughter was going out of the house wearing provocative clothing to party or club etc, would you not stop her if you had power to? Or at least advise against it? Knowing that there are guys out there who may very well take that the wrong way, and knowing that her choice to dress in such a way is merely increasing the chances of rape or attack?
Or would you just be of the mentality "Go on, have a good time. You wear what you want. If you get raped, is just the man's fault."?
That's almost what I think, nothing wrong with toning it down a bit. Heck, I'll admit I'm a bit of a prude, chances of rape aside a person just looks better in my opinion if they dress with a bit of style and self-respect - one doesn't have to go skimpy, or trashy or all revealing to look nice. I can only hope if I ever have a daughter that by then society will have changed a bit so short and revealing isn't still all the rage. I imagine if it hasn't then we will argue about what constitutes good taste, and just plain down and out sensibility.
Dangerous people are out there, so as I said do what you can to avoid trouble from those who think a short skirt symbolises a desire to be forced into sex, even though even taking that step doesn't really grant 100% protection.
Still, it would be interesting to know statistically, in terms of probability, the degree that quality of clothing and the environment have in increasing danger. After all plenty of people are raped when dressed sensibly, and not all of them are teens, and not all are in a club or the like and so forth, and plenty of people dressing provocatively go out and all that and never have a problem. I realise it's only a certain percentage in question with this current debate, but are a majority of rape victims actually, or at least seen as, teens dressed "provocatively", intoxicated to the degree of inability to resist and out clubbing? Or only one or two of these classes?
Originally posted by K.Diddy
I think most rape case's are usually by money hungry females or females wanting attention or females that were drunk had a root one night and the guy gets rid of her the next day so they go scream rape.
You're an idiot, and it's that kind of attitude that keeps some females from reporting their rape.
Originally posted by K.Diddy
I think most rape case's are usually by money hungry females or females wanting attention or females that were drunk had a root one night and the guy gets rid of her the next day so they go scream rape.
Hmmpth. "Females"? My goodness, I think most of what you said is absurd. It's been established there are cases of false alagations, but there are plenty of real cases of it, and really what you just posted reveals terribly outdated, ignorant views. Rape is a serious social problem that causes a great deal of emotional harm, as well as potentially negative social views. Yes, people have faked it, but far, far, far less then the "most" in your post.
That, and I'll think you'll find most "females" are far from the shallow beings that you make them out to be, most of who wouldn't dream of faking something as serious - some, yes, but most no.