GOKU and SUPERMAN

Originally posted by chuckg
[B]Wow...you guys are hardcore.
First off I am using the full extent of Goku's ability as shown in the DBZ-GT series
Secondly, I really don't care what version of Superman you use...Superman Prime, pre-crisis, post crisis....whatever...
Superman would get his ass handed to him by ANYONE with a power level over 500, 000 in the DBZ series. (just to remind you...even Wizard concurred that Goku would beat Supes)

Superman does NOT have the skill nor the firepower to kill Goku. Period.
Goku *lives* to fight and is constantly training and improving his skills...Goku will not hesitate to kill his opponents...Superman is a pussy and doesn't thave the will to finish the job.

Once again...Goku can move INSTANTLY, which is INFINITELY faster than the speed of light...it is demonstrated multiple times...Superman CANNOT move instantly.Period.
Akira Toriyama gave the Z fighters the After Image Technique to demonstrate their immense speed.

Vegeta was NOT the first person to be able to destroy a planet. Frieza destroyed a planet without breaking a sweat...and Goku at his mightiest is *exponentially* tougher than that.

In fact, during the Cell Games, Goku's friends are worried that he is going to launch an attack downwards at his opponent. They realize that if Goku misses, everything would be destroyed, even if Goku pulled back at the last moment....everyone on the Planet would unquestionably die.
No one says anything like that about Superman's eye beams...they aren't even close to the same level of power. Goku's energy blasts would turn Superman into ash.

It IS stated that Goku can survive in space...look up your lore.
Goku has shot energy beams that sent his opponent into the sun within seconds. (much faster than light speed)

Goku's *aura* shook the earth when he powered up to SSJ3.
Once again... Superman has been trained by mortals and super beings....Goku has been trained by multiple GODS (and surpassed them in every respect)...Goku's skill in martial arts and his devotion is far greater than Supermans.

Goku's opponents have been much tougher than Superman's. Goku would utterly destroy Lex Luthor and Doomsday simultaneously.
Majin Buu would annhilate Supes within seconds.

As well, there are far too many inconsistencies with Superman...he can withstand 1 million nuclear blasts, (which by the way wouldnt even destroy 1/4 of the solar system) but gets KO'd by a 40 megaton nuke.....hmmmm.

It doesn't matter if Superman can juggle planets or split the moon, that won't save him from a Dragon Fist to the face.

Superman has weaknesses to exploit...Goku does not.
Superman's powers rely heavily upon the sun...Goku's are completely innate.
Superman only beats Goku in stamina, but that doesn't matter when the match would end within seconds.

Pitting Superman against Goku is like putting a big country guy with somewhat good fighting ability, some enhanced senses and heat vision against Bruce Lee with massive energy attacks and teleportation.
It may be hard to accept, but Superman simply doesn't have the speed, the skill, the firepower, or the will to take Goku down.
Goku wins.

Skill is also debateable, especially when Superman has used pressure points on Tempest and Batman and has 1000 years of experience and knows martial arts. I've never seen Goku do that and I've seen Piccolo, Trunks, Vegeta (equal to Goku), and Tien lose to unskilled androids. They had no training. They were kidnapped and turned into androids.

Goku does have more firepower, but Superman's heat vision isn't a joke either. He heated up the earth with it and it cannot be calculated.

" Pre-Crisis Superman and Prime is overkill."

Oly- Depends the version of Goku. It would be way more difficult for him to win yes.

"he would kill him, just like he did to the three kryptonians. Goku is not bad, so he wouldn't do it. Goku would also know that Superman is not bad either, so it wouldn't matter."

Oly- Some flaws in your logic. First Goku doesnt kill just for the kill. However if there is no other choice, he will kill. Like most heroes.

"Goku knew the After Image technique in Dragonball, yet it took him most of the year to travel Snake Way for his training in Dragonball Z. If he was lightspeed with that technique before fighting Radditz, why did it take him most of the year to travel 600,000 miles"

Oly- Because using it costs life energy. Thats why even he knew already how to fly, he chosed to -run- most of the time.

"Everybody was worried. It would have destroyed the planet if it hit the core. I haven't seen any attacks that hit the surface of the planet and destroyed it instantly."

Oly- By statements, Cells last atatck would do that. As an example.

"Superman has taken many beams, including Omega beams, Green lantern beams (can destroy a planet by accident) "

Oly- Green Lantern blasts dont destroy things by "accident". They destroy if thats the will of the user. Both Goku and Kal have taken planet destroying blasts against some opponents.

"his heat vision cannot be calculated. It is hotter than the sun. He can destroy earth with it."

Oly- The "can" is if it was ever stated. Was it? Because if it wasent and since he never tried thats more of a "could"

"The only time Goku was in space was when he was repairing his ship, and that was while wearing a space suit. I don't know if that scene is filler or not"

Oly- It was. In the Manga he spends the whole time training in the ship.

"True, he did shake the earth. The only people who trained Goku were Master Roshi, Korin, Kami, and King Kai. Only one god has trained him"

Oly- Two. Kami was classified as God of Earth. And "only"? Thats more than Superman ever had in figthing ability.

"Superman is beyond that"

Oly- Again. Depending the version. Later so is Goku.

"DBZ gods are weak anyway. They are nothing compared to Zeus, Odin, Ares, Rao, or Galactus."

Oly- Neither is Superman anything compared with any of those. So why the mooth comparation?

"Goku's opponents have been much tougher than Superman's. Goku would utterly destroy Lex Luthor and Doomsday simultaneously.
Majin Buu would annhilate Supes within seconds."

Oly- Both have uber opponents. Another mooth point but this time by another poster.

"Now, he is faster than light in space"

Oly- Where has he gone -specifically- faster than ligth?

"can lift over 1 million tons effortlessly"

Oly- Without being sundip? In that case everyone in the top tier of Marvel and DC also can. Since they are in Supes league of strength.

"split a moon in half"

Oly- Roshi blasted the moon to pieces in the beginning of DB....heh couldnt resist.

"You haven't proven he is faster. SSJ Gotenks flew around the world 8 times in 8 seconds. Goku is probably equal to him when both are SSJ 3 in DBZ. Goku is probably faster than that, but his exact speed is unknown. How can you say Goku is faster."

Oly- Goku was higher in the power scale by then. The only reason he chosed the kids was because he couldnt stay on Earth. And they wer the next best thing.

"Skill is also debateable, especially when Superman has used pressure points on Tempest and Batman and has 1000 years of experience and knows martial arts."

Oly- Totally disagree. Thats the very one thing thats -not- debatable. Superman is the top gun less skilled around. He knows moves. The DBZ crew are masters in using skill at high speeds. Theres no comparation.

"I've never seen Goku do that"

Oly- Do what?

"and I've seen Piccolo, Trunks, Vegeta (equal to Goku)" and Tien lose to unskilled androids. They had no training. They were kidnapped and turned into androids."

Oly- You dont know if they had training or not. Was it stated? Not that i recall. Wer they trained after becoming androids? We dont know. Supeman sure doesnt show skills in the level all here mentioned do.

Superman wins! He's way more superior physically. 🙂

Originally posted by Femi32
Wizard also said Martian Manhunter can beat Galactus and Batman can beat Spiderman. Wizard is not the authority on who would win or not, especially from those two fights. Pre-Crisis Superman and Prime is overkill.

Yes, he does. If Goku was a threat to the planet, he would kill him, just like he did to the three kryptonians. Goku is not bad, so he wouldn't do it. Goku would also know that Superman is not bad either, so it wouldn't matter.

False. They are not instantly fast. I gave you dozens of examples, yet you keep ignoring them. Answer this question. Goku knew the After Image technique in Dragonball, yet it took him most of the year to travel Snake Way for his training in Dragonball Z. If he was lightspeed with that technique before fighting Radditz, why did it take him most of the year to travel 600,000 miles?

You're right. Freeza was the first able to destroy the planet, but Vegeta was the first one introduced who was able to destroy a planet, going by the story.

Everybody was worried. It would have destroyed the planet if it hit the core. I haven't seen any attacks that hit the surface of the planet and destroyed it instantly. Superman has taken many beams, including Omega beams, Green lantern beams (can destroy a planet by accident) magic beams, and kryptonite radiation that should turn him to ash. He's not ash. And once again, his heat vision cannot be calculated. It is hotter than the sun. He can destroy earth with it.

The only time Goku was in space was when he was repairing his ship, and that was while wearing a space suit. I don't know if that scene is filler or not. The only time he shot someone to the sun was in the movies and GT (both of which aren't cannon anyway). If he did that to Superman, he would only make things worse.

True, he did shake the earth. The only people who trained Goku were Master Roshi, Korin, Kami, and King Kai. Only one god has trained him, and he was killed by a planet destroying blast. Superman is beyond that. DBZ gods are weak anyway. They are nothing compared to Zeus, Odin, Ares, Rao, or Galactus.

There's Imperiex (devours galaxies), Dominus (cosmic being), Darkseid (when written well, he can control galaxies with his mind and pimp-slap pre-crisis superman unconscious, who can effortlessly destroy a solar system), Cyborg, Eradicator (burned Superman's eyes shut. A nuclear bomb can't do that). Majin Buu would be a better match for Superman than Goku. He would give Superman a hard time. If he turned him into candy, Superman will use his willpower to turn right back. He was magically turned to stone by blaze and he turned himself right back to normal. Majin Buu does not have infinite stamina anyway.

Superman wasn't as powerful in 1992 as he is now. Back then, he could only go up to mach 4 and his max strength was 800,000 tons. Superman was koed from the 40 megaton blast over 12 years ago. When he was hit by the 1 million nuclear blast, he couldn't move for a while. Now, he is faster than light in space, can lift over 1 million tons effortlessly, split a moon in half, survive absorbing half a galaxy's worth of energy in power and survive a double black hole.

What is the dragon fist suppose to do. You have no proof that it will put a hole through Superman.

If the sun is gone, Superman will still have his powers while Goku will be freezing and trying to maintain his power level, which won't last that long because he runs out of energy faster than Superman does. You haven't proven that Goku is stronger or faster than Superman. You keep using the after image technique and I keep telling you it is not light speed.

You haven't proven he is faster. SSJ Gotenks flew around the world 8 times in 8 seconds. Goku is probably equal to him when both are SSJ 3 in DBZ. Goku is probably faster than that, but his exact speed is unknown. How can you say Goku is faster.

Skill is also debateable, especially when Superman has used pressure points on Tempest and Batman and has 1000 years of experience and knows martial arts. I've never seen Goku do that and I've seen Piccolo, Trunks, Vegeta (equal to Goku), and Tien lose to unskilled androids. They had no training. They were kidnapped and turned into androids.

Goku does have more firepower, but Superman's heat vision isn't a joke either. He heated up the earth with it and it cannot be calculated.

Nice post! Unfortunely this post will be completely ignored by fanboys.

Superman wins, with reasons stated in this post! 😄

Originally posted by dvampire
Superman wins! He's way more superior physically. 🙂

Don't even bother Dvamp...You could post scans of things, but people still won't listen.

Originally posted by olympian

Oly- Depends the version of Goku. It would be way more difficult for him to win yes.

I don't know of any version of Goku that can also move the earth before a laser hits it or effortlessly blow a star out of orbit as huge as the sun.

Oly- Some flaws in your logic. First Goku doesnt kill just for the kill. However if there is no other choice, he will kill. Like most heroes.

I brought that up because the poster said that Superman doesn't have what it takes to be a man. That's not true. Even though Supes doesn't kill, if he had absolutely no choice, he will. It's moot anyway. Both have no reason to kill eachother.

Oly- Because using it costs life energy. Thats why even he knew already how to fly, he chosed to -run- most of the time.

I disagree. The poster said the AF technique is faster than light. If he did use it, Goku would have crossed Snake Way in seconds, since it would take light approximately 3.2 seconds to travel 600,000 miles. You can't seriously tell me Goku would have run out of energy in three seconds when he has left multiple images in front of Master Roshi and Korin longer than three seconds. And he did fly on Snake Way.

Oly- By statements, Cells last atatck would do that. As an example.

That's true.

Oly- Green Lantern blasts dont destroy things by "accident". They destroy if thats the will of the user. Both Goku and Kal have taken planet destroying blasts against some opponents.

That's true also, except there was a scan that showed a GL scanning a planet. It reflected off the planet and destroyed a nearby one. Kyle blasted Superman who only had a messed up face. Don't know if it was planet destroying or not. I just know its not weak.

Oly- The "can" is if it was ever stated. Was it? Because if it wasent and since he never tried thats more of a "could"

I think it was stated that it could destroy the earth, but I don't have anything that states that. Maybe Avalon has it. Besides, it doesn't have to blow up a galaxy to be effective.

Oly- Two. Kami was classified as God of Earth. And "only"? Thats more than Superman ever had in figthing ability.

That is true. That would make two gods, even though I don't consider Kami a god, just a guardian of earth.

Oly- Again. Depending the version. Later so is Goku.

Goku surviving planet crushing attacks? I don't know about that. I need examples. Super Perfect Cell's attack that would have killed Vegeta, but injured SSJ2 Gohan's arm. Of coures Tien's strongest attack against Super Buu could have destroyed a planet, and Super Buu was unfazed. Vegito is more powerful than both.

Oly- Neither is Superman anything compared with any of those. So why the mooth comparation?

The DBZ gods aren't very powerful compared to Marvel/DC gods or top tier Marvel/DC characters. Their even weaker than top tier DBZ characters who are comparable to Marvel/DC characters.

Oly- Both have uber opponents. Another mooth point but this time by another poster.

This is true.

Oly- Where has he gone -specifically- faster than light?

To the sun with Darkseid, Wonder Woman, Cannnibal planet, to Jupiter from earth in under 4 minutes.

Oly- Without being sundip? In that case everyone in the top tier of Marvel and DC also can. Since they are in Supes league of strength.

Why would he need a sun dip. If it was a trillion tons, that would be a different story. I have no problem with other Marvel/DC characters doing the same. I even stated there are Marvel/DC characters that can beat both. The poster said Goku can beat Spectre, Lucifer, Michael, Galactus, Thor (who would absorb his attacks with the hammer), Wonder Woman (has the god wave and can form and impenetrable shield with her bracelets), etc., except Thanos, who's banned from death.

Oly- Roshi blasted the moon to pieces in the beginning of DB....heh couldnt resist.

Roshi used a maximum powered kamehameha wave. He did not do it easily. His last strength feat was pushing a 20 ton boulder in Dragonball. Goku can destroy a planet, but needs to turn SSJ to train with 10 ton weights on each limb. Doesn't mean he is physically on par Superman. I will admit that he is very powerful, for his age.

Oly- Goku was higher in the power scale by then. The only reason he chosed the kids was because he couldnt stay on Earth. And they wer the next best thing.

Don't know if he is more powerful than Gotenks. SSJ3 Goku held his own against kid Buu, but it had side effects on his stamina. SSJ3 Gotenks didn't have that many stamina problems against Majin Buu, but he ran out of energy anyway.

Oly- Totally disagree. Thats the very one thing thats -not- debatable. Superman is the top gun less skilled around. He knows moves. The DBZ crew are masters in using skill at high speeds. Theres no comparation.

It is debatable. Can you seriously tell me how many fighting stlyes the DBZ crew know. I can tell you Batman knows 127 with scan if you want, or better yet, go to the Batman respect thread. All we know is that they use ki to amp their strength and speed, know how to fight, and punch and kick really fast. It's kind of ridiculous to assume everyone, espescially Goten and Trunks, know 127 fighting styles when nothing like that was specified, especially in Dragon Ball.

He trained with Wonder Woman (she knows more than Bruce), Batman, and Mongul II and knows some Kryptonian styles, especially with 1000 years of experience. He even knows how to use pressure points. Not much skill? I don't think so. Martial artists will even say an opponent with experience is a force to be reckoned with.

A large amount of people on this board say Thor's experience will give him the advantage against his opponents. Didn't he stalemate Captain America without his powers? If so, why should Superman have a problem with Goku.

Oly- Do what?

Use pressure points. Superman used it on Batman and speed blitzed Tempest with a pressure point. If the DBZ crew did use pressure points, please let me know.

Oly- You dont know if they had training or not. Was it stated? Not that i recall. Wer they trained after becoming androids? We dont know. Supeman sure doesnt show skills in the level all here mentioned do.

That's true. It can be said that they don't have the experience either. Could Dr. Gero have downloaded 127 styles of fighting in their brains? Maybe, but nothing like that was stated. Their not even that different from humans actually. Krillin still had a kid with #18.

YOU GUYS ARE SUCH LOSERS THINKIN THAT SUPERMAN COULD DEFEAT A TOP DBZ CHARACTER...I HAVE PITY ON YOUR SORRY SOULS...

Originally posted by OMNIKINETIC
YOU GUYS ARE SUCH LOSERS THINKIN THAT SUPERMAN COULD DEFEAT A TOP DBZ CHARACTER...I HAVE PITY ON YOUR SORRY SOULS...

Wow, that's real mature.

Originally posted by OMNIKINETIC
YOU GUYS ARE SUCH LOSERS THINKIN THAT SUPERMAN COULD DEFEAT A TOP DBZ CHARACTER...I HAVE PITY ON YOUR SORRY SOULS...

Maybe you should drop the fanboism and give reason why Superman whouldn't stand a chance against a top DBZ character. Have you read any new Superman books in the last 11 years? 😕

To be honest, I'm not a Superman fan. I'm not much of a DBZ fan anymore either. However, I must say one thing. This wouldbe a good matchup. I think that in the end, Goku could pull it out, but he would die from the wounds later on.

Come on people. Some of you are pretty smart....others of you are completely LOST. When Goku had that 40 tons all about his body, it wasn't a lifting thing. He was like moving around with lightning speed using his martial arts practicing. This was SSJ1. Everytime they go up another level of SSJ their power increases by like 10 times. Do the math. That means at SSJ4 he would be moving lightning speed with 40,000,000 TONS of weight with EASE. This is power soooooooooooooo far beyond "The Man of Steel." And instant transmission is....well, its INSTANT. Goku can simply think of a planet and....he's there. NO FLYING, or RUNNING...we're talking INSTANT. Far beyond Superman. And you guys do know that Goku does go SSJ4 right? OMG...and thats waaaayyyyyyy beyond SSJ3. And it must eat you superman fans up, b/c supes would get his ass handed to him by a KID....yeah, Goku was transformed by the dragon balls and was a kid, but still retained all of his powers....and he can go SSJ4 anytime he wants....no powering up. Also, Superman CANT FIGHT. He doesn't know any martial arts, how the hell is that not a weakness....which is really besides the point. Goku is so far far far far far far far far far far way past Superman on all levels its ridiculous. Goku also has no weaknesses. No green rocks, no yellow suns, etc. Gods are jealous of his powers. It took all he had to defeat Buu....and Buu would absolutely decimate 10 Supermans. We're talking about a WARRIOR, and Goku is from the sayian race, the ultimate race. The sayians even on their own planet were warriors far stronger than some kryptonian. lol Goku has spent his entrie life training and fighting, training and fighting, training and fighting. And fighting the strongest warriors in the universe. Remember, he once meditated on a mountain for 3 STRAIGHT days preparing for battle. You guys really need to watch DBZ....especially the Buu Saga. To be honest....I don't think 100 Supermen would beat Goku. He is so beyond anything or anybody. Peace

Originally posted by Marcus4600
To be honest, I'm not a Superman fan. I'm not much of a DBZ fan anymore either. However, I must say one thing. This wouldbe a good matchup. I think that in the end, Goku could pull it out, but he would die from the wounds later on.

How whould Goku pull it off? Supes is greater than Goku physically in every way. 😕 So how does he wins?

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
Come on people. Some of you are pretty smart....others of you are completely LOST. When Goku had that 40 tons all about his body, it wasn't a lifting thing. He was like moving around with lightning speed using his martial arts practicing. This was SSJ1. Everytime they go up another level of SSJ their power increases by like 10 times. Do the math. That means at SSJ4 he would be moving lightning speed with 40,000,000 TONS of weight with EASE. This is power soooooooooooooo far beyond "The Man of Steel." And instant transmission is....well, its INSTANT. Goku can simply think of a planet and....he's there. NO FLYING, or RUNNING...we're talking INSTANT. Far beyond Superman. And you guys do know that Goku does go SSJ4 right? OMG...and thats waaaayyyyyyy beyond SSJ3. And it must eat you superman fans up, b/c supes would get his ass handed to him by a KID....yeah, Goku was transformed by the dragon balls and was a kid, but still retained all of his powers....and he can go SSJ4 anytime he wants....no powering up. Also, Superman CANT FIGHT. He doesn't know any martial arts, how the hell is that not a weakness....which is really besides the point. Goku is so far far far far far far far far far far way past Superman on all levels its ridiculous. Goku also has no weaknesses. No green rocks, no yellow suns, etc. Gods are jealous of his powers. It took all he had to defeat Buu....and Buu would absolutely decimate 10 Supermans. We're talking about a WARRIOR, and Goku is from the sayian race, the ultimate race. The sayians even on their own planet were warriors far stronger than some kryptonian. lol Goku has spent his entrie life training and fighting, training and fighting, training and fighting. And fighting the strongest warriors in the universe. Remember, he once meditated on a mountain for 3 STRAIGHT days preparing for battle. You guys really need to watch DBZ....especially the Buu Saga. To be honest....I don't think 100 Supermen would beat Goku. He is so beyond anything or anybody. Peace

Superman wins! 🙂 You know nothing about Supes and just wasting space with huge paragraphs. 🙄

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
Come on people. Some of you are pretty smart....others of you are completely LOST. When Goku had that 40 tons all about his body, it wasn't a lifting thing. He was like moving around with lightning speed using his martial arts practicing. This was SSJ1. Everytime they go up another level of SSJ their power increases by like 10 times. Do the math. That means at SSJ4 he would be moving lightning speed with 40,000,000 TONS of weight with EASE. This is power soooooooooooooo far beyond "The Man of Steel." And instant transmission is....well, its INSTANT. Goku can simply think of a planet and....he's there. NO FLYING, or RUNNING...we're talking INSTANT. Far beyond Superman. And you guys do know that Goku does go SSJ4 right? OMG...and thats waaaayyyyyyy beyond SSJ3. And it must eat you superman fans up, b/c supes would get his ass handed to him by a KID....yeah, Goku was transformed by the dragon balls and was a kid, but still retained all of his powers....and he can go SSJ4 anytime he wants....no powering up. Also, Superman CANT FIGHT. He doesn't know any martial arts, how the hell is that not a weakness....which is really besides the point. Goku is so far far far far far far far far far far way past Superman on all levels its ridiculous. Goku also has no weaknesses. No green rocks, no yellow suns, etc. Gods are jealous of his powers. It took all he had to defeat Buu....and Buu would absolutely decimate 10 Supermans. We're talking about a WARRIOR, and Goku is from the sayian race, the ultimate race. The sayians even on their own planet were warriors far stronger than some kryptonian. lol Goku has spent his entrie life training and fighting, training and fighting, training and fighting. And fighting the strongest warriors in the universe. Remember, he once meditated on a mountain for 3 STRAIGHT days preparing for battle. You guys really need to watch DBZ....especially the Buu Saga. To be honest....I don't think 100 Supermen would beat Goku. He is so beyond anything or anybody. Peace

Too bad this hyperbole doesn't prove that Goku loses pretty bad.
Wonder Woman could kick Gokus @$$. 😎

✅

Originally posted by GODOFALL1
Come on people. Some of you are pretty smart....others of you are completely LOST. When Goku had that 40 tons all about his body, it wasn't a lifting thing. He was like moving around with lightning speed using his martial arts practicing. This was SSJ1. Everytime they go up another level of SSJ their power increases by like 10 times. Do the math. That means at SSJ4 he would be moving lightning speed with 40,000,000 TONS of weight with EASE. This is power soooooooooooooo far beyond "The Man of Steel." And instant transmission is....well, its INSTANT. Goku can simply think of a planet and....he's there. NO FLYING, or RUNNING...we're talking INSTANT. Far beyond Superman. And you guys do know that Goku does go SSJ4 right? OMG...and thats waaaayyyyyyy beyond SSJ3. And it must eat you superman fans up, b/c supes would get his ass handed to him by a KID....yeah, Goku was transformed by the dragon balls and was a kid, but still retained all of his powers....and he can go SSJ4 anytime he wants....no powering up. Also, Superman CANT FIGHT. He doesn't know any martial arts, how the hell is that not a weakness....which is really besides the point. Goku is so far far far far far far far far far far way past Superman on all levels its ridiculous. Goku also has no weaknesses. No green rocks, no yellow suns, etc. Gods are jealous of his powers. It took all he had to defeat Buu....and Buu would absolutely decimate 10 Supermans. We're talking about a WARRIOR, and Goku is from the sayian race, the ultimate race. The sayians even on their own planet were warriors far stronger than some kryptonian. lol Goku has spent his entrie life training and fighting, training and fighting, training and fighting. And fighting the strongest warriors in the universe. Remember, he once meditated on a mountain for 3 STRAIGHT days preparing for battle. You guys really need to watch DBZ....especially the Buu Saga. To be honest....I don't think 100 Supermen would beat Goku. He is so beyond anything or anybody. Peace

Ok, go read the manga...Then come back.

"I don't know of any version of Goku that can also move the earth before a laser hits it or effortlessly blow a star out of orbit as huge as the sun."

Oly- But im sure you know one that can blow a planet to pieces.

"I brought that up because the poster said that Superman doesn't have what it takes to be a man. That's not true. Even though Supes doesn't kill, if he had absolutely no choice, he will. It's moot anyway. Both have no reason to kill eachother."

Oly- Totally correct. I saw later what was your answer for and i agree. In fact thats the one thing Goku and Kal are more alike. Theyr resolve of not killing unless there is no other way.

"I disagree. The poster said the AF technique is faster than light. If he did use it, Goku would have crossed Snake Way in seconds, since it would take light approximately 3.2 seconds to travel 600,000 miles. You can't seriously tell me Goku would have run out of energy in three seconds when he has left multiple images in front of Master Roshi and Korin longer than three seconds. And he did fly on Snake Way. "

Oly- Probably came late but what is the AF?

And he used fligth yes. The first moments wich he stopped and mentioned that he shouldnt spent energy. Then he started to run.

"Goku surviving planet crushing attacks? I don't know about that. I need examples. Super Perfect Cell's attack that would have killed Vegeta, but injured SSJ2 Gohan's arm. Of coures Tien's strongest attack against Super Buu could have destroyed a planet, and Super Buu was unfazed. Vegito is more powerful than both."

Oly- Everyone he fought that was stronger than Freeza was powerful enough to destroy the planet. Freeza its actually the first character that doesnt need to power to the max to destroy one that we know about.

Both Brolly and Buu have galaxy busting moments. And we actually saw Buu destroying Earth with a -single attack- How much did Goku lasted against those two? Yes he can take pretty much planetary attacks.

"To the sun with Darkseid, Wonder Woman, Cannnibal planet, to Jupiter from earth in under 4 minutes"

Oly- Wonder Woman crossing a -distance- faster than ligth after being -punched- and ko isent figthing at those speeds. Hulk has been punched and fallen on Earth in that manner before. So has Warlock under Starlin. That doesnt make them able to fly/figth at FTL. Darkseid? I need to get that issue again, you migth have a point there. Ill check.

"Why would he need a sun dip. If it was a trillion tons, that would be a different story"

Oly- What would be lifting million tons to you? Something in the range of the high top tier or out?

"I have no problem with other Marvel/DC characters doing the same. I even stated there are Marvel/DC characters that can beat both. The poster said Goku can beat Spectre, Lucifer, Michael, Galactus, Thor (who would absorb his attacks with the hammer), Wonder Woman (has the god wave and can form and impenetrable shield with her bracelets), etc., except Thanos, who's banned from death. "

Oly- Ah in that case, i agree. The poster is wrong. Thor would be a possibility -depending the way he figths- but the rest of that list its a big no.

"It is debatable. Can you seriously tell me how many fighting stlyes the DBZ crew know."

Oly- You arent seriously asking the whole listing names? Roshy has its own, Yamcha has its own and also the Roshy style, Tien has the Crane and Roshy style. Picollo has its own, vegetta has its own...? I would need to give a summary of alot of volumes here.

And pretty much everyone has moves no one else has. A unique martial arts move.

"I can tell you Batman knows 127 with scan if you want, or better yet, go to the Batman respect thread."

Oly- I know it has been stated. And i also know hes never proved it. When has he ever showed 127 different martial arts moves? Or even in that -range-? When did he had the time to learn and master all of them?

It falls in the same hyperbolic statement that Rucka gave to WW, by saying she knew every DC Universe martial artist, even we never saw her mastering alot of them or even learning.

"All we know is that they use ki to amp their strength and speed, know how to fight, and punch and kick really fast. It's kind of ridiculous to assume everyone, espescially Goten and Trunks, know 127 fighting styles when nothing like that was specified, especially in Dragon Ball. "

Oly- Unlike the Hyperbole above, we always know who are the masters and what they learn. Wich is more valuable. At least for me.

"He trained with Wonder Woman (she knows more than Bruce)"

Oly- Knows more different Martial Arts? How many does she knows that we`ve seen her learning or stated on panel that she learned. (She is more skilled, im talking about knowledge here).

"Batman, and Mongul II and knows some Kryptonian styles, especially with 1000 years of experience."

Oly- In that 1000 years in Asgard where was it stated she learned Kryptonian figthing styles. Superman itself was taking the place of Thor. What MA training they had.

"He even knows how to use pressure points. Not much skill? I don't think so. Martial artists will even say an opponent with experience is a force to be reckoned with."

Oly- Supes knows moves. But hes not a martial arts master. And of the top tier hes not the most skilled either. WW-Herc-Orion and Thor and all more skilled. Most simply by the reasons that they have shown it.

"A large amount of people on this board say Thor's experience will give him the advantage against his opponents."

Oly- It should, it doesnt necessarily give one.

"Didn't he stalemate Captain America without his powers?"

Oly- Yes.

"If so, why should Superman have a problem with Goku."

Oly- Because superman its not even as skilled as Batman or Captain America for starters?

"Use pressure points. Superman used it on Batman and speed blitzed Tempest with a pressure point. If the DBZ crew did use pressure points, please let me know."

Oly- You asked before examples of DBZ crew using pressure points or striking on focal points (back of the head, brain, nerves, ribs, backs and so on) :

Roshy/Wolf Man

Roshy/Tien

Roshy/Krillin (first Tournment)

Tien/Goku (second tournment)

Yamcha/Goku (second volume - first figth they had)

Kami/Yamcha (third Tournment)

Goku/Pamputt (second tourment)

Nappa/Picollo

Check the examples, theyall contain those moves and alot more. Like speedblitzing wich its theyr trademark game, flippings, flying kicks and punches, dodging, blocking etc. Superman its not on this level pure and simple.

He -has- skils. But hes not top game in that regard.

First and foremost everyone seems to forget that any one who would be writing such a fight would be a Manga/comic book writer. That means several issues of setting, plot, and rounds of combat. You all need to understand how these comics are written not what these characters have or haven’t done before.

First we need to understand the neither warrior is unbeatable. Goku gets beaten several times and Superman basically died at the hands of Doomsday. We also need to understand that both characters hold back their powers MOST of the time. If goku fought at full power he would destroy whatever planet he was fighting on, the same goes for superman. That means that any comic book references of either character on earth are pointless. Maybe Goku could rip a mountain in half but doing so would cause earthquakes and tidal waves so he doesn’t. Maybe Superman could travel instantly but doesn’t because again it would cause collateral damage.

So some ground rules: In an all out brawl both characters would need to be fighting on an abandoned world. Now to my knowledge Goku still can’t breath in space and Superman will eventually weaken if not under a yellow sun. So they should be fighting in an abandoned planetary system with both oxygen and yellow sunlight. Goku needs no motivation to fight (he loves fighting strong opponents) but Superman is another story. He does have competitive spirit though, so lets say they are fighting in some sort of Strongest under the Heavens tournament (think Superman vs Flash).

Round one would go to Superman. Why? Because every single DB/Z/GT fight starts out with Goku being beaten. That means Goku fights Superman, gets knocked out of the Ring or something and says “Wow your a lot stronger than I thought!”

Round two, why is there a round 2? Because this would be a comic book/Manga and lets face it neither is very good at keeping things short and simple. Now Goku would realize that he cannot defeat Superman at his current level…and really it does not matter what level that is. Again every DB/Z/GT fight is written this way. “Oh there is this really strong guy I better get better so I can beat him.” And to be fair, most Superman villains are the same way. “You beat me last time but now I’m better” etc etc. So Goku goes off to train in the room of spirit and time or the afterlife or some other equally fantastic locale, hell Krypton for all I care. The point is he would return with some super kaio-ken or new SSJ level or something and after a long drawn out fight beat Superman. Why? Because again that’s the way these stories are written. Returning villains always get the upper hand on Clark for at least a few panels. So Ultra Super 15 Kaio-ken Goku beats Superman (by a small margin) in round two.

Round three, do I even need to explain this to you? Come on you all read comic books and for the last 15 or so years no comic book story has even been contained in one or even two volumes. That’s why they invented graphic novels. So round three, Goku gets a Sensu, and Superman takes the opportunity to travel into the sun. At first Goku is like “Where did he go” but then he senses Superman’s Ki in the sun and says something like “wow he must be really strong if he can hide in the sun.” Goku fires a Ka-me-ha-me-ha at the sun to blow it up. He’s not worried about killing Superman because Kent can always be brought back with the Dragon Balls. The sun explodes, big full page splash and Goku is like “no one could have survived that…but I still sense his Ki, and it’s not diminishing….it’s gotten stronger!” That’s right the man from Krypton survived the super nova and is now glowing with super nova energy. Goku is promptly defeated but says he will train more so he can win their next fight. And we’ll throw in Batman and Vegeta saying something like I would have done…ya ya.

And there you have it. Not a Manga or a comic book scan, not a fan-boy power level list, just an in depth analysis of Akira Toryama’s writing style against the various writers for superman over the years. Look at Freddy vs Jason, or Alien vs Predator. The industry is incapable of giving us a clear-cut winner and the best we can hope for is 2/3. Why did I give this one to superman? Simple writing style analysis. There will never be two rounds with the same outcome. Superman had to win the first round because of all the powers he has. Goku had to win the second because overcoming opponents that are stronger than him is one of his Saiyan powers. The last round had to go to Superman then so that round 3 would not be a repeat of either of the previous rounds. And like a good vs writer I left the end open for a sequel which would never get written but it appeases the fans of the losing side.

Superman's Heat vision is the concentrated power of the Sun compressed into to very destructive rays of light.

Supes heat vision is hotter can kill faster than Goku's Kamehameha.

Superman has 1000 yrs of fighting experience yet goku encountered fighters with thousands years of experience and training yet still managed to become the strongest, as for speed the fastest I've ever heard superman go is faster then the speed of light radditz did that back in the beginning of DBZ!!, Then there's that stupid argument about superman lifting a zillions of tons first of all lifting power doesn't equate to striking power I doubt a professional bencher can punch as hard as professional boxer and vice versa,Goku may not be able to lift as much as supes but His strikes are impressive and so is his ability to create projectiles since he has a butt load of them...Superman is my favorite hero and i hate DBZ but goku has this won end of story ( Except if were talking about pre-crisis)