Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by Juk3n
Point is, you're arguing Batman and Cap rogues, well..obviously for H2H thread you gotta argue the rogues that Batman beats in MELEE for it to be relevent. Dontyerhtink? Naming rogues Batman tackled with the aid of his resources is kinda...

well, im sure you get the point.

So, Batman rogues that he's handled in Melee that Cap couldnt?

but hey, why even try to name any, I'm sure your intelligently concluded and well educated response will be:

If Batman beat them, Cap can.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Nothing wrong with that. I have Batman Boxers.

Pink ones, booyah!!

lol that's pretty sweet actually!

Originally posted by Lord Feron
damn wtf... 🤣

well like i said im a big fan....

to think he's not even my top number 1 favorite either lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
Hell yeah he is.

Bullshit

Originally posted by namorsubby

but seriously though, if you believe that, there's no need to even attempt Batman related discussion with you.

Don't give me that crap you've been showing your bias ever since we started this conversation. I like how you ignore important parts of my post.

Originally posted by Deadline
Lets not get amensia and pretend that lots of Batman villains are weak genuises that get other people to do dirty work.

Riddler
Joker
Ventroliquist
Two-Face(not that weak)
Penguin
Scarecrow (knows a little martial arts)
Mad Hatter

Your not going to prove that Ras is more skillful. Let me guess you think Ras is more skillful because hes something like 1000 years old and knows lots of martial arts?

Whats Ras done? Hes stalemated and held his own against Batman in a SWORDFIGHT. Hes also got owned by Batman and Nightwing.

Now how does that indicate that hes more skilled than Batroc. Batroc has got good showings against Cap. So wait Ras would stomp Cap in h2h? GTFO.

Sorry mate you got nothing.

The idea that Batman cannot beat Batroc The Leaper is moronic, plain and simple.

You haven't proven anything you've claimed. You claim Cap has fought more superhumans and is physically superior because of it. Like I said, either give me the exact number of superhuman fights of both characters, proving your case, or cease and desist.

You resort to base level accusations like calling me biased or saying I'm ignoring whatever because you simply can't prove what you claim. Your belligerence means nothing to me. I'll keep on disagreeing with your unfounded, unproven statements until you give me a reason not to.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Well, for starters:

Killer Croc has superhuman strength/durability and a healing factor. I'm sure Batman fought him in knightfall.

Bane on venom has superhuman strength as well.

Azrael Has enhanced attributes and armor/weapons.

He fought Ferak in No Man's land.

But we all know these aren't his only story arcs

Please give me the exact number of times batman has fought a superhuman and then give me the apparently higher number cap has. If you can't, please cease and desist immediately.

and since I'm here:

Batman for the win. Neither has an obvious edge in physicality, at least according to feats. Batman is smarter and knows more styles.

his ''edge'' in skill (debatable) is not enough to overcome captain america's skill and superior physical abilities

Originally posted by namorsubby
The idea that Batman cannot beat Batroc The Leaper is moronic, plain and simple.

Great not what I said though is it?

Originally posted by namorsubby

You haven't proven anything you've claimed. You claim Cap has fought more superhumans and is physically superior because of it. Like I said, either give me the exact number of superhuman fights of both characters, proving your case, or cease and desist.

Thats a very smart tactic you got there. You know I can't do that so you're requesting me to do something I can't. However I gave you arcs that spanned from 1993-2000. Thats seven years! Almost every run I can think of done by Captain America has had him facing more formidable opponents.

Are you serioulsy going to argue that 7 years isn't enough? Hell thats not even including some of my comics which weren't in those arcs eg The Bat and The Arrow.

Originally posted by namorsubby

You resort to base level accusations like calling me biased or saying I'm ignoring whatever because you simply can't prove what you claim. Your belligerence means nothing to me. I'll keep on disagreeing with your unfounded, unproven statements until you give me a reason not to.

Yeah you are biased you've also been ignoring some of my points. Here they are again:

Originally posted by Deadline

Your not going to prove that Ras is more skillful. Let me guess you think Ras is more skillful because hes something like 1000 years old and knows lots of martial arts?

Whats Ras done? Hes stalemated and held his own against Batman in a SWORDFIGHT. Hes also got owned by Batman and Nightwing.

Now how does that indicate that hes more skilled than Batroc. Batroc has got good showings against Cap. So wait Ras would stomp Cap in h2h? GTFO.

Sorry mate you got nothing.

Originally posted by Deadline
Lets not get amensia and pretend that lots of Batman villains are weak genuises that get other people to do dirty work.

Riddler
Joker
Ventroliquist
Two-Face(not that weak)
Penguin
Scarecrow (knows a little martial arts)
Mad Hatter

😐

Like I said I may go through the Cap arcs tommorrow but not now.

another thing that should be mention is that Batman powerful rouges suffer from being down right retards far more then capt.

also Ras would get WTF rape stomp by Capt.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also Ras would get WTF rape stomp by Capt.

In a swordfight? I don't think so.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
In a swordfight? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Deadline
Great not what I said though is it?

Thats a very smart tactic you got there. You know I can't do that so you're requesting me to do something I can't. However I gave you arcs that spanned from 1993-2000. Thats seven years! Almost every run I can think of done by Captain America has had him facing more formidable opponents.

Are you serioulsy going to argue that 7 years isn't enough? Hell thats not even including some of my comics which weren't in those arcs eg The Bat and The Arrow.

Yeah you are biased you've also been ignoring some of my points. Here they are again:

😐

Like I said I may go through the Cap arcs tommorrow but not now.

He wouldn't "have a hell of a hard time" against that jobbing loser either, but I believe You replied "damn straight" to that. Way to go genius. 👆

Duh, you can't, because it's not true. No obvious edge in physicality is present in either of their general feats, period. I've seen a million cap feats. Darthgoober practically shoved them down my throat, but nothing is there to suggest Cap has any obvious edge on average in any physical category whatsoever.

seven years? Do you think that's all Batman was featured in those 7 years? do you think he didn't face tons of supervillains/superheroes from the years 1993-2000? just his rogue gallery? You're out of your mind.

BTW, I gave you the names of superhumans in those arcs anyway. Did you read them or just post the Titles of them? There were superhumans in those arcs.

Stop calling my biased because you can't prove what you say. Maybe you should think about what you say and whether it makes sense before you say it.

If Cap has better physical showings in feats, show me.

If Cap routinely engages more superhumans, show me.

otherwise, stop accusing me and "GTFO", as you would say.

edit:

just for good measure. Some superhumans in those arcs were:

Clayface
Killer Croc
Azrael(enhanced)
Venom Bane(enhanced)
Ferak
Mr Freeze

Originally posted by Battlehammer
oh it is a sword fight? I thought just a fight.

He's beaten R'as with sword in Hush. Pretty impressive feat for Bats, IMO.

Of course in this thread, it has little relevance.

Ok I googled Batman vs Captain America and I found this site (while also researching Wesker vs Vamp), and I exhaustingly read from page 1 to this one (four years??? FTW). Amazingly, every commentator has failed to read the title of this thread and apply it to this hypothetical fight. My understanding is that it's a fight between The Cap and Batty Boy with no shield or gadgets. Hypothetically speaking, sans PIS/CIS (per the specified rules), if Cap were to land a solid hit on Batman's chest or stomach, I think the fight would swing in Cap's favor. Which brings me to my point- Batty Boy supporters will say, "Wait, his suit can stop bullets- a punch would do next to no damage." The rules state-no shield or gadgets. Anything designed to minimize the impact of....well an impact is in fact A GADGET. So, no chainmail for Cap and no specialized suit for Batman. ( The argument that 'without their suits, it's Steve vs Bruce' is moot because for one it's a H2H fight, secondly if that's the case then we might as well give them their shield/gadgets to operate with BUT WE CAN'T [LOL] and thirdly, if you REALLY feel they need their colors, then let's head to a local costume shop and find a Batman and Captain America costume and let them wear the non functional ones)

Additionally- I don't see this fight being anything less than drawn out. This isn't Kimbo Slice vs. Youtube bums galore. It's freakin' Batman and Robin! Oh I mean Captain America... *bad joke* What I mean is this- these are two highly trained, unbelievably fit behemoths, meaning pretty much neither will be landing too many solid hits. I mean these guys have fought some of the best contenders in their respective comics. Needless to say, THEY CAN SERIOUSLY DODGE EACH OTHER. The point of that rambling is that this fight (sorry to say Batty Boy fans) will come down to who can last the longest, whether you want it to or not. In other words, STAMINA, of which Cap has in spades. Look at it this way, punching and kicking takes energy. Dodging does too. While it will be a LONG time before Batman tires ( I remember him fighting for 10 HOURS at least), he will eventually tire out, whereas Captain will not. At least before Batman. Any good fighter will tell you ( or in my case a good Street Fighter player) any weakness will be exploited, and once the fighter becomes tired or wiffs, GAME OVER.

Most people will refute my claims that they will predominantly be dodging each other and that they will fighting for a hell of a long time. I say look no further than Dragonball Z or GT. When two fighters are evenly matched (as these two are...well sort of), they almost never hit each other and the fights go on forever. Please don't say DBZ is too unrealistic and we're grounding this in reality. I mean, are super soldier serums real? Can a human no older than 40 MASTER 127 martial arts (of which takes YEARS to master apiece)? How many power lifters or Olympians do you know that can bench 800lbs that have the same muscle mass as Cap or Batman?

Originally posted by Th3birdman
Ok I googled Batman vs Captain America and I found this site (while also researching Wesker vs Vamp), and I exhaustingly read from page 1 to this one (four years??? FTW). Amazingly, every commentator has failed to read the title of this thread and apply it to this hypothetical fight. My understanding is that it's a fight between The Cap and Batty Boy with no shield or gadgets. Hypothetically speaking, sans PIS/CIS (per the specified rules), if Cap were to land a solid hit on Batman's chest or stomach, I think the fight would swing in Cap's favor. Which brings me to my point- Batty Boy supporters will say, "Wait, his suit can stop bullets- a punch would do next to no damage." The rules state-no shield or gadgets. Anything designed to minimize the impact of....well an impact is in fact A GADGET. So, no chainmail for Cap and no specialized suit for Batman. ( The argument that 'without their suits, it's Steve vs Bruce' is moot because for one it's a H2H fight, secondly if that's the case then we might as well give them their shield/gadgets to operate with BUT WE CAN'T [LOL] and thirdly, if you REALLY feel they need their colors, then let's head to a local costume shop and find a Batman and Captain America costume and let them wear the non functional ones)

Additionally- I don't see this fight being anything less than drawn out. This isn't Kimbo Slice vs. Youtube bums galore. It's freakin' Batman and Robin! Oh I mean Captain America... *bad joke* What I mean is this- these are two highly trained, unbelievably fit behemoths, meaning pretty much neither will be landing too many solid hits. I mean these guys have fought some of the best contenders in their respective comics. Needless to say, THEY CAN SERIOUSLY DODGE EACH OTHER. The point of that rambling is that this fight (sorry to say Batty Boy fans) will come down to who can last the longest, whether you want it to or not. In other words, STAMINA, of which Cap has in spades. Look at it this way, punching and kicking takes energy. Dodging does too. While it will be a LONG time before Batman tires ( I remember him fighting for 10 HOURS at least), he will eventually tire out, whereas Captain will not. At least before Batman. Any good fighter will tell you ( or in my case a good Street Fighter player) any weakness will be exploited, and once the fighter becomes tired or wiffs, GAME OVER.

Most people will refute my claims that they will predominantly be dodging each other and that they will fighting for a hell of a long time. I say look no further than Dragonball Z or GT. When two fighters are evenly matched (as these two are...well sort of), they almost never hit each other and the fights go on forever. Please don't say DBZ is too unrealistic and we're grounding this in reality. I mean, are super soldier serums real? Can a human no older than 40 MASTER 127 martial arts (of which takes YEARS to master apiece)? How many power lifters or Olympians do you know that can bench 800lbs that have the same muscle mass as Cap or Batman?

Great post, and I agree with it.

[QUOTE=12418663]Originally posted by namorsubby
[B]1. it's harder to hold weight over your head with you arms than to bench press weight.

Yeah...basic bodybuilding has escaped you. Any fool that goes to the gym worth his salt will tell you-- benching is isolation focusing on the muscles in the CHEST (not arms, like most think) whereas what Batman was doing was would be something along the lines of an overhead press.... It is significantly easier to hold something overhead because you are in fact utilizing your entire body. I mean come of it, wth do you think is happening when you are standing? Your arms doing all the work? This, my friend, is what we on the internets like to call a FAIL. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. 😄

Big, green, radioactive fist smashing into his shield crushing him between shield and wall.

If Captain America survives this fight, Batman is a piece of cake.

Captain America #257 cover

Enraged Hulk holding Captain America by his chainmail tunic about to give him a beat down.

If Captain America survives this fight, Batman is a piece of cake.

Ultimate Avengers movie

Cap gets backhanded by the Hulk, flies 100 feet into the side of a truck.

If Captain America survives this fight, Batman is a piece of cake.

Also, Captain America is one of only a few who can wield Thor's hammer. Batman's sometimes darker impulses would preclude him from this. +1 for Cap.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
In a swordfight? I don't think so.

I seem to recall a fight where Captain America once wielded the Ebony Blade belonging the Black Knight, so I wouldn't be so sure about that.

In a striker format... It is likely a batman and captain America fight would go on until someone tires...

In a street fight anything goes... Throws... Takedowns... Armbars... Chokes.... Leglocks... Etc...full mount Ground and pound... A real fight doesn't have to take hours...if cap or bats can pull off a move that breaks the opponents limbs then its pretty much game over...

Honestly I really see batman with his overall skill set having the better odds here to pull off a submission.

Originally posted by rotiart
In a striker format... It is likely a batman and captain America fight would go on until someone tires...

In a street fight anything goes... Throws... Takedowns... Armbars... Chokes.... Leglocks... Etc...full mount Ground and pound... A real fight doesn't have to take hours...if cap or bats can pull off a move that breaks the opponents limbs then its pretty much game over...

Honestly I really see batman with his overall skill set having the better odds here to pull off a submission.

In a real fight you can small joint manip, bite, gouge, fish hook, pinch, head butt, all things that make grappling and ground game pretty risky. Submission grappling is next to useless, unless the person you are using it on is a novice and panics. You don't want to be on the ground in a real fight, it is suicide unless there is a strict rule-set in place that heavily favours wrestling and ground game, like MMA.

Ignoring all that and assuming for a second that a win by submission is a possible outcome, the chances of Batman taking a larger, stronger, more skilled fighter with a huge stamina advantage to the mat and managing to get him into and then holding a submission hold long enough for Cap to pass out, is extremely unlikely.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
In a real fight you can small joint manip, bite, gouge, fish hook, pinch, head butt, all things that make grappling and ground game pretty risky. Submission grappling is next to useless, unless the person you are using it on is a novice and panics. You don't want to be on the ground in a real fight, it is suicide unless there is a strict rule-set in place that heavily favours wrestling and ground game, like MMA.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm often in agreement with you, but this is incorrect.

Which part? You don't want to go to the ground and try for a submission with someone who is going to fight dirty. That is just bad news.