Originally posted by Bentley
You surely mean hurting Apollo and utterly destroying Grifter?
Apollo fluctuates more than the Power-puff girls and has been overpowered by horses, dude is closer to Rogue then he is Superman. A powerless Grifter, who still would have killed Midnigher if Apollo hadn't stepped in saved his ass. Cap and Batman both have better feats then either of those examples. Much better.
Hey, you know who actually may have DS's status? John Steele, the guy who utterly destroyed Steve in Secret Avengers.
But seriously, I don't care much about your readings on comics or how you carry your discussions, just stop using the DS=Steve arguments to solve issues with characters others than Slade himself. Discuss with Steve's own feats and don't bring distorted conclusions from other debates -in which you probably couldn't convince anyone short of BH-.
Originally posted by Bentley
Hey, you know who actually may have DS's status? John Steele, the guy who utterly destroyed Steve in Secret Avengers.But seriously, I don't care much about your readings on comics or how you carry your discussions, just stop using the DS=Steve arguments to solve issues with characters others than Slade himself. Discuss with Steve's own feats and don't bring distorted conclusions from other debates -in which you probably couldn't convince anyone short of BH-.
lol John Steel is like Luke Cage with super speed, he would tool Slade hard then Cap would.
Cap = Slade is pretty much forum consensus, the people that don't believe it are an elite group consisting of namorsubby, the man who thinks Cap is the equal of Batman, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I guess just you.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
lol John Steel is like Luke Cage with super speed, he would tool Slade hard then Cap would.Cap = Slade is pretty much forum consensus, the people that don't believe it are an elite group consisting of namorsubby, the man who thinks Cap is the equal of Batman, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I guess just you.
Forum consensus? Personally I don't think the forum consensus on Midnighter is him being mid-street, nor in Apollo being Ms Marvel level, I've seen you debate enough to take such statements with a grain of salt 😉
EVEN if most people here agreed with what you said, characters should be compared among themselves and not using a floating argumentation that may not be known by everyone in the forum. Treating DS vs Cap as a foregone conclusion is dangerous as any other foregone conclusion is, pretty much by definition.
Originally posted by Bentley
Forum consensus? Personally I don't think the forum consensus on Midnighter is him being mid-street, nor in Apollo being Ms Marvel level, I've seen you debate enough to take such statements with a grain of salt 😉EVEN if most people here agreed with what you said, characters should be compared among themselves and not using a floating argumentation that may not be known by everyone in the forum. Treating DS vs Cap as a foregone conclusion is dangerous as any other foregone conclusion is, pretty much by definition.
Midnighter is a low tier meta, and Apollo is a heavily fluctuating low mid to mid high depending on his sun exposure, but none of that has anything to do with Cap and Slade.
I'm not going to start off each thread like it's a blank slate. I've been posting here for like - I don't know - seven years, and these issues have all been debated ad nauseum. Am I supposed to pretend that the Batman vs Captain America debate hasn't been nailed into the ground hundreds of times? We all know what Captain America is capable of. We all know what Batman is capable of. We are argue over which fictional character is the strongest, and we've been doing it for years. There is a chance once a Wednesday that a new feat will come out that no one has seen, but other the that we have all seen everything the big names like Cap and Batman are capable off, and we have seen it dozens and dozens of times. Do you remember the time Batman grabbed the end of a speeding Sedan with one hand and a lamp post with the other, stopping the car dead in its tracks and bending the lamp post like a pipe cleaner? No, but I remember when Cap did it. Do you remember when Batman walked around with a utility pole over his shoulder with the 800lbs transformers still on it like it was nothing? I'm acting like it's a forgone conclusion because it is a conclusion that has been reached, by anyone paying attention, dozens of times. It's not arbitrary, this is based of years of being an active poster and participating in these debates and seeing the scans, and reading the comics. Cap is stronger then Batman, because he is stronger then Batman... significantly so, as seen on panel in the comics you read and the scans that get posted over and over and over and over and over again.
First of all, none of your argumentation -true as it may be- justifies using another character and something you concluded in another thread, DS=Captain in stats should be used in their vs thread and set aside when debating other characters.
Also, if you don't want to debate, either don't debate or debate properly. Many KMC veterans have stopped posting in many threads because they feel they've sang their tune, but whenever they return, they don't send people to another thread, they actually debate all over again until they illustrate their point. Of course, I don't mean to tell you how to spent your time, I just disagree that having debated here for years justify statements that will be effectively unproven for those who just arrived.
Originally posted by Bentley
First of all, none of your argumentation -true as it may be- justifies using another character and something you concluded in another thread, DS=Captain in stats should be used in their vs thread and set aside when debating other characters.Also, if you don't want to debate, either don't debate or debate properly. Many KMC veterans have stopped posting in many threads because they feel they've sang their tune, but whenever they return, they don't send people to another thread, they actually debate all over again until they illustrate their point. Of course, I don't mean to tell you how to spent your time, I just disagree that having debated here for years justify statements that will be effectively unproven for those who just arrived.
So you are basically getting in huff over "Show your work!" like you are a public school teacher grading long division? Scroll back a few pages man, you can see the Captain America = Deathstroke reasoning in this very thread. It isn't something that was just arbitrarily cared over from another thread and expected to be treated as gospel (even though it should be). Saying Batman can't beat Cap because he has trouble with a leaser Cap in Deathstroke, seems just as natural as saying Punisher can't beat Batman because he can't beat a leaser Batman in Daredevil, and I don't think anyone finds objection with that comparison.... but that is a comparison where Batman wins, so maybe that means it's okay to use?
I never said I didn't want to debate, it's that you stated - matter-of-factly - that Captain America being Slade's physical equal is an "random unproven generalization" and that he "lacks the feats," which is categorically untrue on both accounts.
There should be no debate at all that Captain America is indeed physically stronger and faster than Batman. The comics and stats tell it all. Cap doesn't even get drunk, sick or tired. Batman while being a very well trained and conditioned human doesn't mean squat because Captain America is clearly stronger than him in everyway. I have been reading comics for many years and for one knows that Captain America is superior to Batman. Bane broke Batman's back. Would not happen to Cap. Captain America has fought numerous supervillians at one time, held his own or won.
^ I agree. Although Batman isn't near Cap physically, he can and still will give Steve hell every time. Batman's done well physically against other near/or superhuman foes, such as Slade, Bane, KG-Beast/The Demon, Killer Croc, Man-Bat Ninjas and others. But Steve takes it 7-10 because of his sheer power and speed to overwhelm.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
^ I agree. Although Batman isn't near Cap physically, he can and still will give Steve hell every time. Batman's done well physically against other near/or superhuman foes, such as Slade, Bane, KG-Beast/The Demon, Killer Croc, Man-Bat Ninjas and others. But Steve takes it 7-10 because of his sheer power and speed to overwhelm.
Batman is a great fighter and tactician, who has fought and beat by outsmarting even Superman at one time and while I am a fan of both heros, I think Captain takes him one on one with no gadgets or shield. Captain America has fought some pretty high power supervillians himself. Sometimes even at once. Cap is on all levels more upgraded than Batman. There is no where written or online that gives Batman the strength and feats of Captain america.
Again I asked for speed feats that are greater subby. Him tagging kid flash after distracting him with the knife has no quantification because we don't know how fast Kid was going. Its no differeent then Cap countering Quick Silver. And Slade being as fast as Mercury is no different then Cap being compared to the speed of Quicksilver. Even Batman and Nightwing have done the same....LOL. Cap's done the same to Quick Silver. And been stated to have the speed of Quicksilver.
Cap impresses Quicksilver with his speed.
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8775/avengersv101707jx5.jpg
Cap fights a freak that compares Cap's speed to Quiksilver.(That same guy tagged QSilver.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1369/avengersv103716lx9.jpg
Cap counters Quicksilver himself.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2128/avengersv102203bf3.jpg
Cap runs past Daredevil like he's a breeze. DD attests that Cap is faster then himself.
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil23314bt0.jpg
Heck Cap has Laser time scenes.
Cap with metal glove blocks random energy beams, definitely fast hand speed.
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers17004yb3.jpg
Cap dodges beams unders zero gravity.
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123516rougherpv4.jpg
http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123518rougherbg7.jpg
Like I said come back when you have some real superior speed feats.
Originally posted by LetsbeREAL
Batman is a great fighter and tactician, who has fought and beat by outsmarting even Superman at one time and while I am a fan of both heros, I think Captain takes him one on one with no gadgets or shield. Captain America has fought some pretty high power supervillians himself. Sometimes even at once. Cap is on all levels more upgraded than Batman. There is no where written or online that gives Batman the strength and feats of Captain america.
Trust me I know all too well.. Like I said Steve has overwhelming power n speed. Bruce would need his equipment to tactically take down Steve here.
