Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by Blight
An argument could at least be made on the Skill side.

How people began to approach the "Batman is just as strong" is completely beyond me.

People want there to be a parity between DC and Marvel, so they look to draw a parallel between the most popular street level heroes in the respective universe. This is a mistake of course as Marvel has (had I suppose now that all the Wildstorm characters have been annexed) a much wider and more diverse street level scene than DC does, that isn't focused around one intellectual property (ie Batman). If you want to draw a parallel between DC and Marvel streets then Daredevil and Batman are where the lines meet, and Captain America is above them both.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Not in srank's mind not that i care much

The argument has been made a dozen times and discredit a dozen times. If you'd like to go through the motions again, then feel free to do so.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America is established from several sources as being more skilled than Shang-Chi and Iron Fist.

Batman is established from several sources as being less skilled than Shiva, and Dragon.

Captain America is sitting at the top of marvels street level MA hierarchy, Batman is lucky to crack the top five in DC... even before the influx of Wildstorm characters.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
People want there to be a parity between DC and Marvel, so they look to draw a parallel between the most popular street level heroes in the respective universe. This is a mistake of course as Marvel has (had I suppose now that all the Wildstorm characters have been annexed) a much wider and more diverse street level scene than DC does, that isn't focused around one intellectual property (ie Batman). If you want to draw a parallel between DC and Marvel streets then Daredevil and Batman are where the lines meet, and Captain America is above them both.

The argument has been made a dozen times and discredit a dozen times. If you'd like to go through the motions again, then feel free to do so.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are arbitarily assuming that the skill level of top MA in both companies is about the same. DC's top MA is karate kid, show us his equivalent in marvel. FYI the official KK who died in LO3W was PC val armorr.

Marvel also had an MA who was able to take it to Silver Surfer. 😬

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Marvel also had an MA who was able to take it to Silver Surfer. 😬

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are arbitarily assuming that the skill level of top MA in both companies is about the same. DC's top MA is karate kid, show us his equivalent in marvel. FYI the official KK who died in LO3W was PC val armorr.

you just fail to understand a simple point people are trying to explain , because of your butthurt you missed the main point which is the fact Cap is dominating everyone and he is at the top of the food chain when it comes toi the marvel MA guys, Batman on the other hand gets dominated by the "super soldier" type of guys all the time, gets dominated by bane gets humiliated by deathstroke, even with his skills his lack of physical strength and durability makes him lose all those fights.

batman has a crapy durability to be honest compared to cap, you always see batman bleeding and on his knees when fighting someone slightly superior than him, Cap on the other hand doesnt let anyone treat him like that because he is the one treating people that way, Cap is on top of the marvel MA hierarchy, Batman? batman gets destroyed by the likes of lady shiva , deathstroke, bane and others

and if you think people like shiva and richard dragon are on a higher level than shang chi and iron fist then seriously get out of here and stop posting because seriously when ever you post you make no sense and just sound dumb so seriously thats not a place for you

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are arbitarily assuming that the skill level of top MA in both companies is about the same. DC's top MA is karate kid, show us his equivalent in marvel. FYI the official KK who died in LO3W was PC val armorr.

I said street level ma hierarchy, not limited to streets Captain America is completely over shadowed by guys like Mandarin and Temugin, old masters like Stick, Po and Izo, and cosmic like Moondragon and Mantis. Karate Kid is the most skilled, but he doesn't exisit in the standard DC U, nor is he a street level martial artists by any stretch of the imagination, which makes him completely irrelevant to my point about street level skill hierarchy.

I'm pretty sure he was supposed to be Post-Zero Hour Val? I remember them giving the Universe Designation in Final Crisis somewhere.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Midnight sun was 75 tonner IIRC. He survived a whisper from Black bolt too.

Shang-Chi fought amped cosmic Midnight Sun a couple years ago. 😎

Originally posted by red sabre
you just fail to understand a simple point people are trying to explain , because of your butthurt you missed the main point which is the fact Cap is dominating everyone and he is at the top of the food chain when it comes toi the marvel MA guys, Batman on the other hand gets dominated by the "super soldier" type of guys all the time, gets dominated by bane gets humiliated by deathstroke, even with his skills his lack of physical strength and durability makes him lose all those fights.

batman has a crapy durability to be honest compared to cap, you always see batman bleeding and on his knees when fighting someone slightly superior than him, Cap on the other hand doesnt let anyone treat him like that because he is the one treating people that way, Cap is on top of the marvel MA hierarchy, Batman? batman gets destroyed by the likes of lady shiva , deathstroke, bane and others

and if you think people like shiva and richard dragon are on a higher level than shang chi and iron fist then seriously get out of here and stop posting because seriously when ever you post you make no sense and just sound dumb so seriously thats not a place for you

Originally posted by abhilegend
blabla
Shush kid, elders are talking. I've really no interest in street levelers matches.

then you can walk yourself out of here just like you do everywhere alse when people show you how little knowledge you got

i am willing to do a battlezone Batman vs Captain america by feats vs anyone who is ready to represent Batman, i know already the Cap feats will destroy anything batman got, Batman best physical feats are things like breaking chains or tearing out cell barrs, Cap on the other hand got actual super human feats

Batman strength wise is somewhere in Daredevil's league

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I said street level ma hierarchy, not limited to streets Captain America is completely over shadowed by guys like Mandarin and Temugin, old masters like Stick, Po and Izo, and cosmic like Moondragon and Mantis. Karate Kid is the most skilled, but he doesn't exisit in the standard DC U, nor is he a street level martial artists by any stretch of the imagination, which makes him completely irrelevant to my point about street level skill hierarchy.

I'm pretty sure he was supposed to be Post-Zero Hour Val? I remember them giving the Universe Designation in Final Crisis somewhere.

That was the second legion whom reality was destroyed, 3-boot legion came from earth-prime. The regular legion is PC legion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If we go only by feats, superman would be thousands or in some cases infinitely stronger than others. Cap seems stronger than batman taking all their feats in account, but taking one or two outlier feats out of hundreds of other feats and declaring them the norm is just silly.

i guess you were reading the indian versions of batman and cap, lucky for us this is the standard marvel versions so you are completely wrong here

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Shang-Chi fought amped cosmic Midnight Sun a couple years ago. 😎

Originally posted by red sabre
then you can walk yourself out of here just like you do everywhere alse when people show you how little knowledge you got

Originally posted by red sabre
i guess you were reading the indian versions of batman and cap, lucky for us this is the standard marvel versions so you are completely wrong here

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not likely. But again, you're srank, so you can pick whatever you like and leave whatever you don't as proof. Show us these feats of cap where he manhandles peak humans. Cap isn't going to beat bruce like deathstroke did despite what you believe. Slade is defined as being above the top tier streets physically, cap isn't.

You are saying all these street levelers who cap has fought are alive because cap never lands a flush haymaker.

Missed this post, it was at the end of the last page.

Captain America is also "defined as being above the top tier streets physically," he has even one shotted Daredevil before (something Slade has never done to Batman), but lets be honest unlike Deathstroke Captain America generally holds back when he engages his friends or other heroes in combat (usually because one party is mind controlled and the other doesn't want to hurt them), so we usually get a more subdued and even fight. But a serious Captain America would rag doll Batman.

Everyone Captain America fights is alive, because he doesn't kill people. 😉

Originally posted by abhilegend
Troll harder.

i actually debated here by providing feats and bringing out points, all you do on the other hand as usual is stick up your long nose into threads and start trolling them with your crapy opinion that no one gives a damn about, if you cant contribute anything to the discussion on hand then walk yourself out of here

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yet KK is what defines the MA in DCU, superman who after IC remembers his PC history with legion compares batman to karate kid as level 12 to level 15. That was PC karate kid as superman wasn't a member of 3-boot legion. Legion has enough interactions with regular DCU to make comparison.

That was the second legion whom reality was destroyed, 3-boot legion came from earth-prime. The regular legion is PC legion.

I don't know man, out side of that one indecent Batman is clearly the measuring stick for what is skilled in the DC U. Oracle wants to establish that Black Canary has made the transition to a top tier martial artist? She says "I think she may even be more skilled than Batman!" Nightwing wants to establish that Connor Hawke is in the upper echelon of skilled martial artists? He says "Not even you have done that well against Lady Shiva, Bruce!"

I know it wasn't Three-Boot KK... because he wasn't Asian. 😎

Obviously Pre Zero Hour Karate Kid / Nemesis Kid and Batman One Million are significantly more skilled than anyone in Marvel... but they aren't really germane to this conversation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How well did he perform? Midnight sun isn't that good of a fighter, surfer sucks at h2h and he mostly harmed surfer via his strength.
Troll harder.

Midnight Sun is actually quite skilled. He was a Shang-Chi foe originally before he was resurrected as a cosmic being. He has even held his own against Mantis.

abhilegend cant be bothered by logic, he knows about strength more than any of us i mean just look at him what a beast

Originally posted by red sabre
i actually debated here by providing feats and bringing out points, all you do on the other hand as usual is stick up your long nose into threads and start trolling them with your crapy opinion that no one gives a damn about, if you cant contribute anything to the discussion on hand then walk yourself out of here

Originally posted by red sabre
abhilegend cant be bothered by logic, he knows about strength more than any of us i mean just look at him what a beast

Originally posted by abhilegend
Troll harder.