Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by leonidas
as for the chopper--he was braced against the car. let's assume the car DID aid him. in order to do so he would have had to have the leg strength still to maintain his braced stance against the pull of the chopper anyway as he was not fastened to the car. since he was independent of it, the chopper would have pulled him free first before pulling the car.

put yourself in the car--think you or anyone you know could have done it? clearly it was a superhuman feat.

I never claimed it wasn't a superhuman feat (definitely a durability feat). I said that his strength didn't do all of the work. Who cares about anything else? For one, the force of the car had to be greater than the force the helicopter was pulling at. If not, then assuming Cap is perfectly attached to the car (glued like crazy), then helicopter would have pulled both the car and Cap with it. The skateboard analogy is a perfect one. If Cap is glued to the skateboard then him and the skateboard will be pulled unless the skateboard exerts a force on the ground equal to the force the helicopter is pulling with. Otherwise the skateboard will be pulled and start rolling toward the helicopter. Cap can't stop the skateboard from rolling because he is bracing against it but it is connected to the ground with wheels.

Hell, a small weak child can pull you with a rope on the skateboard against your will. Think about it?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The vehicle Captain America is on / in is completely irrelevant. One end of the grappling hook is tether to the helicpoter. The other end is tether to an object in Captain America's hand. If at any point that line goes taunt, and Captain America isn't physically strong enough to pull the helicopter against it's resistance... then Captain America gets yanked up off the ground by the helicopter. It doesn't mater if he is on a car, a boat, a skateboard, roller blades, or chilling in on the patio in a lawn chair. You'd be right if the line was fixed to the car, or Captain America was buckled in with a seat belt, but neither of those things are true.

You are not understanding. If Cap's feet are glued to a skateboard then do you think he could pull down a helicopter (assuming he had infinite strength)?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you should be asking why cap wasn't simply pulled up by the copter. the car isn't part of his lower body

Cap wasn't pulled because he was bracing against the vertical part of the seat of the car. It prevented him from being pulled out of the car by the helicopter. If not, then why the hell you think the writer had him brace against the vertical part of the seat.

Originally posted by Blight
This is the most stupid logic I have ever read on a site. If he were on a skateboard and a helicopter were pulling him, he would be pulled off the skateboard... unless he somehow had the muscle fortitude to keep himself on (which is inhuman).

No assuming the helicopter is pulling him laterally or Cap's feet are glued to the skateboard. My point is that the skateboard will be pulled along with Cap (even if Cap had infinite strength) since the skateboard isn't providing a resistance against the helicopter and will roll.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It strikes me that the sniper in the scene wasn't aiming at Batman's head but at Mr. Freeze. Isn't that the reason Batman's inner monologue comments that "the shooter is too good . . . the bullet too fast" and screams "No!"???

Originally posted by h1a8
I never claimed it wasn't a superhuman feat (definitely a durability feat). I said that his strength didn't do all of the work. Who cares about anything else? For one, the force of the car had to be greater than the force the helicopter was pulling at. If not, then assuming Cap is perfectly attached to the car (glued like crazy), then helicopter would have pulled both the car and Cap with it. The skateboard analogy is a perfect one. If Cap is glued to the skateboard then him and the skateboard will be pulled unless the skateboard exerts a force on the ground equal to the force the helicopter is pulling with. Otherwise the skateboard will be pulled and start rolling toward the helicopter. Cap can't stop the skateboard from rolling because he is bracing against it but it is connected to the ground with wheels.

Hell, a small weak child can pull you with a rope on the skateboard against your will. Think about it?

You are not understanding. If Cap's feet are glued to a skateboard then do you think he could pull down a helicopter (assuming he had infinite strength)?

Cap wasn't pulled because he was bracing against the vertical part of the seat of the car. It prevented him from being pulled out of the car by the helicopter. If not, then why the hell you think the writer had him brace against the vertical part of the seat.

No assuming the helicopter is pulling him laterally or Cap's feet are glued to the skateboard. My point is that the skateboard will be pulled along with Cap (even if Cap had infinite strength) since the skateboard isn't providing a resistance against the helicopter and will roll.

Get it. Just get it. Why don't you get it?

SMH

I got to say with Caps showing against Gambit and a recent showing in Cap 11 were he gots shot in the leg and states he heals fast Cap is superhuman. It's like Cap now has a low level HF, thats not the first time its been stated.

Not only does Batman have to deal with Caps stamina, but Cap can take damage and heal better. Batman can put up a fight but its a foregone conclusion hes going down.

How is this thread reach this many pages without being closed for spite... One character is simply better than the other in pretty much every single way when it comes to a h2h fight. Cap and easily

Originally posted by Deadline
^ This guy is insane just posts anything and thinks its job done.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It strikes me that the sniper in the scene wasn't aiming at Batman's head but at Mr. Freeze. Isn't that the reason Batman's inner monologue comments that "the shooter is too good . . . the bullet too fast" and screams "No!"???

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap wasn't pulled because he was bracing against the vertical part of the seat of the car. It prevented him from being pulled out of the car by the helicopter. If not, then why the hell you think the writer had him brace against the vertical part of the seat.

Benching well over a 1000lbs. One plate says 500lbs.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batweightraining.jpg

batmans leg press is 2500lbs
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batodyssey2-legpress2.jpg

Alters the path of a falling totem pole(usually weighs over a ton) by colliding with it. It falls and smashes his legs. He lifts it.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batotem1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batotem2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batotem3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batotem4.jpg

batman catches and holds a large sarcophagus on his back. Then another with the use of a cable line. He holds both until the guards under them are clear of danger.
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/?action=view&current=gothamaftermidnight2-batvsarcophagus2.jpg
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/?action=view&current=gothamaftermidnight2-batvsarcophagus3.jpg
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/?action=view&current=gothamaftermidnight2-batvsarcophagus4.jpg
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/?action=view&current=gothamaftermidnight2-batvsarcophagus5.jpg

Wrestles down cape buffalos
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/?action=view&current=batman282-batvstampede2.jpg

Nice scans.

Cap has some advantages, but Batman is definitely in this fight.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Anyone who thinks these feats aren't comparable to caps physical feats is insane, period.

None of the scans (including the ones posted after this post) you've posted are in the same ball park as the Cap scans being discussed in this thread.

Also all the scans you've posted were in the link I provided earlier, we are all aware of them, and its blatantly clear to anyone with half a functioning brain that they don't stack up to Caps feats.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
None of the scans (including the ones posted after this post) you've posted are in the same ball park as the Cap scans being discussed in this thread.

Also all the scans you've posted were in the link I provided earlier, [b]we are all aware of them, and its blatantly clear to anyone with half a functioning brain that they don't stack up to Caps feats. [/B]

Let's be clear, Cap is stronger than Bats. It's not debatable. I would say at most 2x and not this ridiculous 4x as much. Caps feats are at best 2x better than Bats, nothing more. Some can even argue it's not more than 1.5x greater.

If Bats goes pressure points on Cap then he can make this a decent fight. But a straight fight Cap wins all day.

Cap knows pressure points, too...

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Do you think a helicopter can pull and rip a huge pipe like that to pieces? Plus you are not considering the car aiding in the pulling. Cap has much much better feats than that. I'll leave it up to you to figure out which ones. I'm not going to help your case.

Let's be clear, Cap is stronger than Bats. It's not debatable. I would say at most 2x and not this ridiculous 4x as much. Caps feats are at best 2x better than Bats, nothing more. Some can even argue it's not more than 1.5x greater.

If Bats goes pressure points on Cap then he can make this a decent fight. But a straight fight Cap wins all day.

Oh yes I almost forgot, you think that you can hang a truck of a roof top ventilation pipe *cough* yourf@ckingstupid *cough*. Just FYI, yes a helicopter would tear apart that pipe. Easily.

The car did not aid the pulling. You are an idiot. This as already been well established.

Captain America knows pressure points also.

Are you drinking contaminated water? Are you eating led paint chips? Is there some medication that you should be taking but have opted out from? What's wrong with you? How can you be so stupid?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
None of the scans (including the ones posted after this post) you've posted are in the same ball park as the Cap scans being discussed in this thread.

Also all the scans you've posted were in the link I provided earlier, [b]we are all aware of them, and its blatantly clear to anyone with half a functioning brain that they don't stack up to Caps feats. [/B]

Others have seen my feats and said otherwise. Id like a second, unbiased opinion.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Oh yes I almost forgot, you think that you can hang a truck of a roof top ventilation pipe *cough* yourf@ckingstupid *cough*. Just FYI, yes a helicopter would tear apart that pipe. Easily.

The car did not aid the pulling. You are an idiot. This as already been well established.

Captain America knows pressure points also.

Are you drinking contaminated water? Are you eating led paint chips? Is there some medication that you should be taking but have opted out from? What's wrong with you? How can you be so stupid?

Huh? I don't care what you say the pipe can easily support a truck. Hell a thin cable can support several tons alone.

The Car did aid by the simple fact it was moving in the same direction as Cap was pulling. Every play tug of war with multiple people?

Also what do you think would have happened if Cap tied the cable around the car? Would the helicopter overpower the car and pull it back?

Cap has better feats than the helicopter one. You are the expert and don't know which ones. I know which ones. Physics is my friend.

Cap knows pressure points but Bat's possibly knows them better and is more willing to use them, especially on a stronger and just as skilled opponent.

Originally posted by namorsubby
his physical feats are clearly comparable. Any idiot can respond with "not as good". And youre always the idiot who does.

Others have seen my feats and said otherwise. Id like a second, unbiased opinion.

His feats are clearly inferior... I mean... just look at them.

Batman pulls down a 600lbs Manbat? Captain America pulls down a helicopter.

Batman supports a 1000lbs ceiling? Captain America supports the weight of a building.

Batman benches 600-1000lbs? Captain America benches 2200lbs and curls 400lbs even with powerless.

And so on and so on.

You post a bunch of inferior feats that don't come anywhere close to the ones you are trying to match... then clap your hands together and say "Well that's that!" and pretend like you've made any sort of headway on the point you are trying to make. Mean while everyone other than cdtm is standing there waiting for you to post something of note.

Originally posted by h1a8
Huh? I don't care what you say the pipe can easily support a truck. Hell a thin cable can support several tons alone.

The Car did aid by the simple fact it was moving in the same direction as Cap was pulling. Every play tug of war with multiple people?

Also what do you think would have happened if Cap tied the cable around the car? Would the helicopter overpower the car and pull it back?

Cap knows pressure points but Bat's possibly knows them better and is more willing to use them, especially on a stronger and just as skilled opponent.

You should care what I say... because I'm right. Steel cables are designed for that very purpose, with multiple wires corded together to support the weight. There is a reason we use corded steel wires, and not chains or pipes... it's because they are not suited for the task. That pipe couldn't support the weight of a car, let a lone a truck or a helicopter.

Lets look at your tug of war analogy for a moment. What do you think would happen if one person was standing in the back of a flat bed truck holding one end of a rope, while four or five people stood behind the truck holding the other end of the rope, and then the truck took off? The person on the truck would get pulled off the back of the truck! Captain America is not attached to the car. It moving is of no aid to him what so ever. Is there an adult care worker that is supposed to be looking after you? Can you please get them to read this then explain it to you?

Batman doesn't know pressure points better than Cap, and he has never displayed the ability to practically execute pressure points in combat against a fighter of Captain America's caliber.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
His feats are clearly inferior... I mean... just look at them.

Batman pulls down a 600lbs Manbat? Captain America pulls down a helicopter.

Batman supports a 1000lbs ceiling? Captain America supports the weight of a building.

Batman benches 600-1000lbs? Captain America benches 2200lbs and curls 400lbs even with powerless.

And so on and so on.

You post a bunch of inferior feats that don't come anywhere close to the ones you are trying to match... then clap your hands together and say "Well that's that!" and pretend like you've made any sort of headway on the point you are trying to make. Mean while everyone other than cdtm is standing there waiting for you to post something of note.

Helicopter feat was an aided feat.
Cap supports the weight of a building? Really? Scans please.

Also show this benching of 2200lbs as well.

Steve Rogers can't even lift 100lb powerless. Where do you get this curl 400lb from?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You should care what I say... because I'm right. Steel cables are designed for that very purpose, with multiple wires corded together to support the weight. There is a reason we use corded steel wires, and not chains or pipes... it's because they are not suited for the task. That pipe couldn't support the weight of a car, let a lone a truck or a helicopter.

Lets look at your tug of war analogy for a moment. What do you think would happen if one person was standing in the back of a flat bed truck holding one end of a rope, while four or five people stood behind the truck holding the other end of the rope, and then the truck took off? The person on the truck would get pulled off the back of the truck! [b]Captain America is not attached to the car. It moving is of no aid to him what so ever. Is there an adult care worker that is supposed to be looking after you? Can you please get them to read this then explain it to you?

Batman doesn't know pressure points better than Cap, and he has never displayed the ability to practically execute pressure points in combat against a fighter of Captain America's caliber. [/B]

If the person was attached to the car then he would pull all four people. Cap was attached to the car. Look at the scans. His feet is bracing against the vertical seats. Why did he do that? Because if he didn't then he would have got pulled out of the car.

I already proven the tensile strength of steel. You can't debate physics. The pipe can support a minimum of 9 tons easily without being ripped to pieces.

Batman can hit CA in a fight and thus he would be able to land a pressure point strike. He is more willing to fight that way and thus it gives him a chance in the fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
Helicopter feat was an aided feat.
Cap supports the weight of a building? Really? Scans please.

Also show this benching of 2200lbs as well.

Steve Rogers can't even lift 100lb powerless. Where do you get this curl 400lb from?

If the person was attached to the car then he would pull all four people. Cap was attached to the car. Look at the scans. His feet is bracing against the vertical seats. Why did he do that? Because if he didn't then he would have got pulled out of the car.

I already proven the tensile strength of steel. You can't debate physics. The pipe can support a minimum of 9 tons easily without being ripped to pieces.

Batman can hit CA in a fight and thus he would be able to land a pressure point strike. He is more willing to fight that way and thus it gives him a chance in the fight.

I'm pretty both have those scans have been posted more than once in this thread so far. I was mistaken about the curl though, it was actually 500lbs, but Captain America wasn't powerless... or at least not in the way I implied. It was after he lost his 10 ton strength amp, and could toss around the top of the statue of liberty.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1125/curl500tu1.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/5/5a/Captain_America_Benchpress.jpg

Jesus Christ. Captain America was not attached to the car. He used his leg to brace himself so he could get more use out of the muscles in his legs and lower back.Putting his leg on the seat doesn't meld him into the car, if he wasn't strong enough to pull the Helicopter down on his own volition... he would still have been yanked clean out of the back seat regardless of the placement of his leg. The act doesn't put the moment of the car behind Cap, it simply allows him to get some more leverage from using the muscles in his legs.

You have proven anything, what you did is list some unverified numbers. Numbers that a structural engineer didn't agree with. And on another note, that pipe isn't steel. The material it is made off depends on the age of the building and what sort of heating system it has in place, but it is most likely cast iron (if the building is old and relies on steam heating and radiators), or a high grade aluminum alloy if the heating is more modern.

You need a level of precision to implement pressure points in combat against a skilled combatant of Captain America's caliber that Bruce has never demonstrated. Few characters have.

Captain America supporting a portion of the weight of a collapsed skyscraper.