Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
[B]Skyscraper feat:
Also, the shield definitely helps. The narration even says "even this sweet shield that absorbs momentum can only do so much." That obviously implies that it's doing something.

So, basically the feat is assisted and hard to quantify. [/B]

how does the shield help? the shield redirect impacts, at first when it fell on cap the shield redirected the impact however as the skyscraper continuesly pushed the shield was useless because its not an impact anymore its another force, and even if we go by narration which state the shield absorb momentum then in order for a momentum to be forcing the shield it has to move forward thats how a momentum is created, however cap was holding the skyscraper dead cold which means the momentum was gone, cap was strugling with the weight of the skyscraper in which the shield couldnt help him already because there was no momentum or impact it was a pure weight

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Listen to yourself. A skyscraper is indeed much more than what Batman could lift. But, like you said, it isn't a whole skyscraper. So it's a fraction of a skyscraper. How big of a fraction? Do you know, because I do not? Again, there could be a few tons falling toward Cap's point or there could be thousands. Just because the building was a skyscraper doesn't mean we can make assumptions about how much of it is concentrated on Cap's position.

.

wana play this game? fine... even if we dont know the portion of the skyscraper cap was supporting we still were able to see there were couple of layers he was holding which already tell us he was holding much more than a single floor or ceiling , batman however was supporting a single layer of either a floor or a ceiling or what ever that was.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I didnt even show the manbat thing. The heli feat seems to be highly disputed, to say the least.lol

Ive got a feat from bruce that looks identical.

600-1000lbs? I just showed bruce lifting well over 1000. There's 4 plates shown on one side. One clearly reads 500lbs. Do the math.

Lifting a totem pole that smashes his legs.holding down two cape buffalo with one hand each. Holding up two huge sarcophagi. All more than enough to put him on caps level physically. Others have agreed. Like I said, I need an unbiased opinion and I've gotten them.

The helicopter feat isn't "highly disputed," it's being contested by one person, and thus far the thread consensus is that he is an idiot.

No you don't. Struggling to hold up a small over hang != supporting a portion of the weight of a skyscraper. Once again we come down to scope, Batman has similar types of strength feats... but accomplished on visibly inferior scale than the ones accomplished by Captain America. That's Cap's best trapped under rubble feats... and he his others are still better than Batman's.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6338/captainamerica22817oh9.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4535/captainamerica22902mv1.jpg

That I-Beam alone would weight 800-1000lbs... then there is the "countless hundreds of tons" of concrete and steel on top of that.

There isn't four plats on the side, there are two. The plate has protruding rims on its edges, you are seeing the bottom of the rim, then the side of it, then a cast shadow. The 300-500lbs (FYI that plate doesn't "clearly" read anything, its virtually illegible) plate is the big plate, and then there is one more plate with the same orientation. At most it is a 1050 bench, at least 650 bench, not factoring in the bar.

He didn't hold down two Buffalo, he tko'd two Buffalo and then used their bodies to shield himself from a stampede. We had a lengthy discussion about the weight of sarcophagi already Subby, the part of the sarcophagus you keep are referencing, the human shaped inner coffins only weigh a couple hundred pounds. Were you hoping if you waited a few days before posting this again, I'll have forgotten that?

That totem pole probably weighted in around a ton including the steal supports they use to keep in place... but Batman didn't lift the totem pole, he lifted a portion of it at one end. It's impressive as he was trapped under it and had no leverage, but its the equivalent of those strong men contests when the grab the front bumper of a car and left one end off the ground. Impressive, but a long way off from lifting the entire weight of the object. It still pales in comparison to Cap lifting the telephone pole.

And I'd also like to point out that no one has really even brought up the more ridiculous feats like Cap forcing up 75 ton blast doors, or closing the significantly heavier doors of a nuclear missile silo.

Cap wins... and VERY easily at that.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Listen to yourself. A skyscraper is indeed much more than what Batman could lift. But, like you said, it isn't a whole skyscraper. So it's a fraction of a skyscraper. How big of a fraction? Do you know, because I do not? Again, there could be a few tons falling toward Cap's point or there could be thousands. Just because the building was a skyscraper doesn't mean we can make assumptions about how much of it is concentrated on Cap's position.

Similarly, the art in the Batman feat makes it hard to quantify and he was assisted to some degree by a bent, steel support.

We don't know anything, so "based on what we know" we should obviously withhold judgment.

I think that was my point I just don't think we have to withold judgement. You could say that possibly about alot of feats we kinda make educated guesses especially when it comes to dodging feats.

At any rate thats a valid point but namorsubby wanted to use the Batman feat and if he wants to do that Cap holding up a skyscraper is admissable and is superior.

Originally posted by red sabre
dude i know about his shield however for this case my point is valid, i know off the abilities the shield has however for this scenerio its only an extra weight for can to lift with all the structure collapsing on him , the shield doesnt push the weight back it only works against impacts

I'm guess I'm trying to argue for both sides. Kinda difficult to argue in favour of ns.

Cap every time. Not only is he physically superior and just As skilled, his jobber aura is way more impressive 😛

see this? the blast is pushing cap backwards which clearly shows us the shield does not redirect momentum only impacts, if you believe his shield can also redirect momentum itself please provide feats aside of some statement, and even that statement i was able to easily counter 🙂

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Cap wins... and VERY easily at that.

What's this "easily"? Cap may win, but he's not Spiderman.

It's a top end street vs a street +, not a street vs a full blown meta.

Originally posted by cdtm
What's this "easily"? Cap may win, but he's not Spiderman.

It's a top end street vs a street +, not a street vs a full blown meta.

See the Batman vs Deathstroke fights. Then imagine that on top of his superior stats Deathstroke was also a better fight than Batman.

That's how easily Captain America would beat Batman.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
See the Batman vs Deathstroke fights. Then imagine that on top of his superior stats Deathstroke was also a better fight than Batman.

That's how easily Captain America would beat Batman.

But didn't Dick hold his own with Slade too?

Does Slade regularly own top end streets, or could we call that PIS? (Taking into consideration that Slade does have a history of PIS, from out speeding Wally to Kyle deciding to punch him instead of using his ring.)

Originally posted by cdtm
But didn't Dick hold his own with Slade too?

Does Slade regularly own top end streets, or could we call that PIS? (Taking into consideration that Slade does have a history of PIS, from out speeding Wally to Kyle deciding to punch him instead of using his ring.)

Dick's faster, more agile and more elusive than Bruce, which has afforded him opportunities to capitalize on Slade's inferior hand to hand combat skills and make Slade look like a rank amateur while Dick dances around him and lands unanswered blow after blow. Bruce usually opts for a more direct h2h approach favouring brute force. Slade comes up short in the skill department, but he is strong enough that if he lands clean with one good shot he'll either win outright, or sufficiently turn the tide of the fight in his overwhelming favor, even the fights where Nightwing appeared to hold a sizable advantage are just snap shots of a larger encounter, if those fighters were allowed to play themselves to their natural conclusion, Slade would win. Captain America is in a similar boat as Slade, where he is strong enough to put a street to sleep with one clean shot, but he is also much more skilled, so he never gets embarrassed like DS frequently does. We've seen that he is capable of putting Daredevil down with one clean shot if he wants to (and more recently Gambit).

Lol this is no longer a question who will win because it is clear Cap will murder batman, i think the debate should be about Cap being able to one shot batman or not 🙂

Ok guys you're going overboard here. Cap isn't going to murder Batman.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok guys you're going overboard here. Cap isn't going to murder Batman.

Captain America doesn't murder people, but he would ragdoll Batman.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok guys you're going overboard here. Cap isn't going to murder Batman.

👆 Agreed.

He would certainly ragdoll superman all over the place... literally... I honestly can't believe this thread has gone on this long... One character is CLEARLY superior by narration and feats to another when it comes to h2h combat while taking into account their respective stats...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Struggling to hold up a small over hang != supporting a portion of the weight of a skyscraper.

I just picked up a loose brick. Do I get a strength feat for lifting a portion of my apartment building? Or is the concept "portion" useless until you can somehow gage how much weight is actually involved? You tell me.

The fact is, knowing that the building was a skyscraper before it got wrecked in no way indicates how much of it happened to be collapsing at that particular time at that particular spot. Damaged buildings don't collapse uniformly. That why people get trapped sometimes instead of just squished.

EDIT: For the record, I think that Cap is considerably stronger than Bruce and would beat him convincingly in a hth fight. I just think this is a poor feat to demonstrate that, or anything.

Originally posted by Deadline
I think that was my point I just don't think we have to withold judgement. You could say that possibly about alot of feats we kinda make educated guesses especially when it comes to dodging feats.

Educated guesses require useful information. The only information anyone seems interested in is that "it's a skyscraper." That is not useful. It has utterly no bearing on quantifying this strength feat.

And saying "Cap held up a skyscraper" is horribly misleading. It makes me think of this

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
I just picked up a loose brick. Do I get a strength feat for lifting a portion of my apartment building? Or is the concept "portion" useless until you can somehow gage how much weight is actually involved? You tell me.

The fact is, knowing that the building was a skyscraper before it got wrecked in no way indicates how much of it happened to be collapsing at that particular time at that particular spot. Damaged buildings don't collapse uniformly. That why people get trapped sometimes instead of just squished.

EDIT: For the record, I think that Cap is considerably stronger than Bruce and would beat him convincingly in a hth fight. I just think this is a poor feat to demonstrate that, or anything.

Because there is parity between Captain America struggling against the weight of several tons of steel debris, and you lifting up a brick and equating it the weight of your build. Right?

If you read the issue before hand you'd know the impetus of the collapse of the structure and how it relates to Captain America's position. Cap fought Rhino in a construction site, and the steel frame work of the building was brought down, Cap ran back into the center of the site to save a construction working and the entire thing collapsed right ontop of him.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The helicopter feat isn't "highly disputed," it's being contested by one person, and thus far the thread consensus is that he is an idiot.

No you don't. Struggling to hold up a small over hang != supporting a portion of the weight of a skyscraper. Once again we come down to scope, Batman has similar types of strength feats... but accomplished on visibly inferior scale than the ones accomplished by Captain America. That's Cap's best trapped under rubble feats... and he his others are still better than Batman's.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6338/captainamerica22817oh9.jpg
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4535/captainamerica22902mv1.jpg

That I-Beam alone would weight 800-1000lbs... then there is the "countless hundreds of tons" of concrete and steel on top of that.

There isn't four plats on the side, there are two. The plate has protruding rims on its edges, you are seeing the bottom of the rim, then the side of it, then a cast shadow. The 300-500lbs (FYI that plate doesn't "clearly" read anything, its virtually illegible) plate is the big plate, and then there is one more plate with the same orientation. At most it is a 1050 bench, at least 650 bench, not factoring in the bar.

He didn't hold down two Buffalo, he tko'd two Buffalo and then used their bodies to shield himself from a stampede. We had a lengthy discussion about the weight of sarcophagi already Subby, the part of the sarcophagus you keep are referencing, the human shaped inner coffins only weigh a couple hundred pounds. Were you hoping if you waited a few days before posting this again, I'll have forgotten that?

That totem pole probably weighted in around a ton including the steal supports they use to keep in place... but Batman didn't lift the totem pole, he lifted a portion of it at one end. It's impressive as he was trapped under it and had no leverage, but its the equivalent of those strong men contests when the grab the front bumper of a car and left one end off the ground. Impressive, but a long way off from lifting the entire weight of the object. It still pales in comparison to Cap lifting the telephone pole.

And I'd also like to point out that no one has really even brought up the more ridiculous feats like Cap forcing up 75 ton blast doors, or closing the significantly heavier doors of a nuclear missile silo.

The heli thing is an assisted feat, period.

Those building scans are in no way visibly inferior. I'm sick of you nitwits making finite weight estimations based on looking at comic book illustrations. It's plain retarded. And do you really think cap can hold up "countless tons"? If you do, youre even more dense than I thought. Also, the dialogue makes it clear the that the shield helped. Of course you'll deny it, but it's there
for anyone to read.

If youre gonna just lie every time youre wrong this is pointless. The plate says 500. Its one of four on that side. Again with those idiotic calculations based on nothing. 1050 at most? You dont know the weight of the other plates and according to you not even the one that reads 500. So how do you know what it could be at most, dumbass?

He wrestled two cape buffalos to the ground. Your sacophagus info is inaccurate. I checked several sites which plainly say that on average they can weigh 3000 or more. If you actually look at the scans you see that these are actually much larger than a body. use bruces or the guards as reference.