Originally posted by srankmissingninFalse, the car has wheels and could roll. The helicopter can pull the car; the helicopter can't pull the Earth. That's why I gave a skateboard analogy. A person on a skateboard=/= a person on the Earth because the Earth can't move, while the skateboard can roll.The car fills the same role as the f@cking ground does normally. Captain America isn't aided by the car anymore than a power lifter is aided by the surface of the earth.
Bracing against the back seat affords Captain America extra leverage, and use of the stronger muscles of his lower body. That's it. It doesn't add the momentum of the car to his pull. If Captain America wasn't physically strong enough to overpower the Helicopter when the line goes taut, then he would have been yanked clean free of the car regardless of where his leg happened to be situated.
[/B][/QUOTE] Partially true, but the car has wheels in connection to the virtually unmovable Earth. Thus, the car must supply a force to prevent itself from being pulled or rolled. Cap in the car is exactly like Cap glued to a skateboard. Not even infinite strength can help you pull a helicopter if you are on wheels that can roll. You would rather pull yourself towards the helicopter instead of pulling it towards you.
So the helicopter is too weak to pull a 265lb man out of a car? If so, then the feat sucks harder.No.
Huh? Break? WTH? Why would the skateboard break? It would simply roll since its wheels are not glued to the ground. What happened to your common sense man?Assuming the skateboard doesn't break under the strain then yes, he'd pull down the helicopter. The car doesn't matter, Captain America pulled the helicopter down of his own volition, what he is standing on is irrelevant.
Not really. They are relevant to the car scenario.They were stupid questions.
It's a rooftop ventilation pipe, it's not made out of structural steel, and it's not a 1/3 of an inch think. Hence: unverified numbers.
If it's an old building with a boiler and hot water convection using steam for heat, then that pipe is cast iron. The fact that they rust easily and deteriorate is what would have allowed Batman to tear it free of it's roof top fittings. If it's a newer building, then it's almost certainly a high grade aluminum. You couldn't hang a ton off that pipe with out ripping it clear of the roof, let a long a truck.
What are you talking about? The pipe in the scan was made of steel as shown. Ventilation pipe? Stop making stuff up. The pipe resembled a fire hydrant like pipe which allowed for liquid flow. Do you know how strong a fire hydrant is and what types of pressure that water flow can have? Look at the thickness of the pipe when Batman broke it. Ventilation pipes aren't that thick. The thickness from the scan is from .75cm to 1. 25cm.
Since you didn't know I was being nice when I said 7tons and you still want to downplay the pipe feat then let's really underestimate the feat now. Do you like apples? Ok!
Let's say it's aluminum alloy which has an ultimate tensile strength up to 400Mpa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_tensile_strength#Typical_tensile_strengths
So let's make it even weaker to about 70Mpa. The pipe was about a 1ft wide so let's underestimate that and say the outer radius of the pipe be 4in or 0.1m and let the inner radius be .5cm or .005m (less than the true 1 cm thickness as shown in the scan). So the cross sectional area is:
pi x outer radius squared -pi x inner radius squared
=pi x (.1m)^2 - pi x (.095m)^2
=pi x [.1^2-.095^2]m^2
=.003m^2
Now let's multiply that with the ultimate tensile strength of a this weaker aluminum allow. So we get a force of
F= 70Mpa x .003m^2
=70,000,000N/m^2 x .003m^2
=210,000N
or 47000lb of force
or 23 ton of force
How you like those apples? 😆
Originally posted by red sabre
there is a difference, Cap holding portion of the sky scrapper isnt PIS because Cap during his entire history displayed great feats of strength when needed, he was able to do super human physical tasks when on the edge of danger and specially if other people are in danger thats part of the characterhowever Batman being able to defeat aquaman contredicts the entire character of arthur and just take a big piss on him, if anyone thinks Batman beating aquaman is legit then......
But I don't think Batman beating Aquaman is anymore legit than Cap lifting a portion of a building (although the shield helped).
Originally posted by h1a8
But lifting a portion of a building (although the shield helped) is way beyond Cap in comparison to his entire career. So if Batman's feats are PIS then so is Caps.But I don't think Batman beating Aquaman is anymore legit than Cap lifting a portion of a building (although the shield helped).
its not that much of a stretch if you look at it, its not like Cap was holding a whole building but its a well respected postion indeed, if we look at Cap, all his career he did super human tasks and specially when trying to save someone, ripping statues lifting tree's closing dozens of tons doors, draging trucks stuck in the sand, one shoting a f**** side of a building with cement chunks his size, holding telephone poles on his shoulder like a school bag, so no i dont think its a PIS
the shield didnt help cap supporting the structure its an extra weight for him , the shield does not help in lifting
batman beating upo aquamn is bullshit because during his entire career he is getting worked by the enhanced guys like bane , deathstroke, azrael atc atc atc
Originally posted by iceman24567
Superman rolled with it
Talking about when he was mind controlled by Ivy.
Batman guessed he was still holding back somewhat, but it's only a guess (IMO, Supes was simply suffering from standard "zombie syndrome" that seriously slows a character down when someones mind controlled. Supported by the fact Catwoman got the better of Batman in Long Halloween.)
Originally posted by cdtmYeah in a realistic situation if Batman hits Superman flush on the chin he should break every bone in his hand i know his suit is built with high level shock resistance but not to that degree
Talking about when he was mind controlled by Ivy.Batman guessed he was still holding back somewhat, but it's only a guess (IMO, Supes was simply suffering from standard "zombie syndrome" that seriously slows a character down when someones mind controlled. Supported by the fact Catwoman got the better of Batman in Long Halloween.)
Originally posted by iceman24567
Yeah in a realistic situation if Batman hits Superman flush on the chin he should break every bone in his hand i know his suit is built with high level shock resistance but not to that degree
He has Kung Fu movie knuckles? Probably jammed them in sand, and than gravel, and eventually moved onto rocks until they became like granite. 😄
And he does have super durable characters in his rogues gallery. Blockbuster and Grundy are two examples, landing repeated blows hard enough to fell a bull without injuring himself.
Originally posted by h1a8you don't seem to know what a helicopter is
False, the car has wheels and could roll. The helicopter can pull the car; the helicopter can't pull the Earth. That's why I gave a skateboard analogy. A person on a skateboard=/= a person on the Earth because the Earth can't move, while the skateboard can roll.
Originally posted by red sabre
its not that much of a stretch if you look at it, its not like Cap was holding a whole building but its a well respected postion indeed, if we look at Cap, all his career he did super human tasks and specially when trying to save someone, ripping statues lifting tree's closing dozens of tons doors, draging trucks stuck in the sand, one shoting a f**** side of a building with cement chunks his size, holding telephone poles on his shoulder like a school bag, so no i dont think its a PISthe shield didnt help cap supporting the structure its an extra weight for him , the shield does not help in lifting
batman beating upo aquamn is bullshit because during his entire career he is getting worked by the enhanced guys like bane , deathstroke, azrael atc atc atc
None of those feats compare to lifting a portion of a building though.
The comic stated that the shield was reducing the momentum. Meaning, it was easier than Cap using an adamantium shield or his hands.
IMO, these feats are almost in the same ballpark with Batman's being a little more PISSY. Just know that Batman has an entire history of hurting beings way outside his physical strength. I would wager more than Cap has of lifting portion of buildings.
Edit: I think that since we don't know what portion of the building he was holding up (it could have been less than 1%) then the feat just turns into an unquantifiable one.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
you don't seem to know what a helicopter is
You don't seem to know that a helicopter can also fly horizontally and not just vertically.
that's not the point. you seem to be ignoring the fact that cap overcame it's linear momentum, thrust, and lift with his grip
it's not so much that he pulled it down, but rather he wasn't at all effected by the car and the helicopter going separate ways at fast speeds, AND he wasn't fastened to either object other than his grip/fortitude
Originally posted by psycho gundam
that's not the point. you seem to be ignoring the fact that cap and THE CAR overcame it's linear momentum, thrust, and lift with his gripit's not so much that THEY pulled it down, but rather THEY wasn't at all effected and the helicopter going separate ways at fast speed.
Fixed.
But know that the car's wheels are connected the to Earth and it can roll.
Get on some skates and hold a rope and allow a weaker person (gf maybe) pull you while you try to pull them without actually skating. Guess who is going to win?
you're not smart enough to use these analogies. you've perverted the original scenario
you can clearly see a what...40 degree angle of tension on that cable, so the whole thing about the helicopter and car simply going in opposite directions just on different altitudes is bunk. cap should have been pulled right out of the car, but this isn't the real point.
just calculate the stress his left knee and hands/arms endured for that feat and be done with it
Originally posted by h1a8
False, the car has wheels and could roll. The helicopter can pull the car; the helicopter can't pull the Earth. That's why I gave a skateboard analogy. A person on a skateboard=/= a person on the Earth because the Earth can't move, while the skateboard can roll.
All of which is completely irrelevant, because the helicopter isn't attached to the car, it's attached to Captain America. If Captain America just stands there holding one end of the tether and makes no effort to pull against the momentum of the helicopter... he would get pulled out of the car. The helicopter wouldn't pull the car along with him because Captain America happened to be in standing in the back seat. Same is true for a skateboard. Maybe if the Helicopter flew close to the ground and made an attempt to tow Captain America, it could drag him around on a skateboard... but flying above him like that it would just pull him free.
You are going to give me a brain aneurysm.
Originally posted by h1a8
Partially true, but the car has wheels in connection to the virtually unmovable Earth. Thus, the car must supply a force to prevent itself from being pulled or rolled. Cap in the car is exactly like Cap glued to a skateboard. Not even infinite strength can help you pull a helicopter if you are on wheels that can roll. You would rather pull yourself towards the helicopter instead of pulling it towards you. So the helicopter is too weak to pull a 265lb man out of a car?
The car doesn't need to do anything to prevent itself from being pulled or rolled, because it isn't connect to the Helicopter. Captain America is. The helicopter can't pull the car because the mere act of trying would have yanked Cap clean out of the vehicle with minimal resistance and the car would have driven on like nothing had happened.
Originally posted by h1a8
So the helicopter is too weak to pull a 265lb man out of a car?
That's not the question you asked, now is it? You asked if Captain America hadn't braced himself, if he would have been pulled out of the back of the car. Well, Captain America "bracing" himself isn't what prevent himself from being pulled out of the car, what stopped that from happening is that he was stronger than the force exerted on him by the Helicopter, so the Helicopter was pulled down rather than Captain America being pulled out of the car.
If you want to know if Captain America made no effort to resistance the pull of the Helicopter if he would have been dragged out of the car, then the answer is yes... but how is that germane to the current topic of discussion?
Originally posted by h1a8
If so, then the feat sucks harder. Huh? Break? WTH? Why would the skateboard break? It would simply roll since its wheels are not glued to the ground. What happened to your common sense man?
You never skateboarded did you? They aren't that strong. If you put one foot on the nose of the board, and one foot on the tail and then push down with all your weight, you can crack the board in the middle. Snap it clean in two depending on how much wear it has. Cap would be placing a lot of strain on the deck if he was pulling down a freaking helicopter...
Originally posted by h1a8
Not really. They are relevant to the car scenario.
Yes really. Incredibly stupid questions.
Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? The pipe in the scan was made of steel as shown. Ventilation pipe? Stop making stuff up. The pipe resembled a fire hydrant like pipe which allowed for liquid flow. Do you know how strong a fire hydrant is and what types of pressure that water flow can have? Look at the thickness of the pipe when Batman broke it. Ventilation pipes aren't that thick. The thickness from the scan is from .75cm to 1. 25cm.
That thing doesn't look anything like the a fire hydrant. It's a ventilation duct. If Batman tore apart a fire hydrant... I'd give him props.
Why would they have a water pipe on the roof of a building, that comes out of the rood, makes an inverter u shape... then goes back into the roof a few feet later? And what kind of building has water pipes that a person can fit into? It's some sort of roof top ventilation pipe.
Dude... the pipe isn't .75cm to 1.25cm thick. What are you smoking? The only part of the pipe where the thickness is displayed as anything more than a black line the width of a pencil mark, is an area where the metal is torn and the flap is kind of sticking out... but that's just the surface area of the pipe in some foreshortening, not the thickness of the pipe. That pipe is not half an inch thick you lunatic.
Originally posted by h1a8
Since you didn't know I was being nice when I said 7tons and you still want to downplay the pipe feat then let's really underestimate the feat now. Do you like apples? Ok!Let's say it's aluminum alloy which has an ultimate tensile strength up to 400Mpa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_tensile_strength#Typical_tensile_strengths
So let's make it even weaker to about 70Mpa. The pipe was about a 1ft wide so let's underestimate that and say the outer radius of the pipe be 4in or 0.1m and let the inner radius be .5cm or .005m (less than the true 1 cm thickness as shown in the scan). So the cross sectional area is:
pi x outer radius squared -pi x inner radius squared
=pi x (.1m)^2 - pi x (.095m)^2
=pi x [.1^2-.095^2]m^2
=.003m^2Now let's multiply that with the ultimate tensile strength of a this weaker aluminum allow. So we get a force of
ton of force
F= 70Mpa x .003m^2
=70,000,000N/m^2 x .003m^2
=210,000N
or 47000lb of force
or [b]23How you like those apples? 😆 [/B]
Thank you for more useless numbers. Now we know how much it effort it would take someone to stretch a solid piece of aluminum until it breaks. Too bad that isn't what happened here. The duct Batman more tore up was several conjoined pieces, and he didn't pull on it until it started to "neck," he ripped it out of it's fastenings, tearing the metal at the points of the rivets / bolts that held it in place.
Also tension isn't the only force being applied here, you also need to account for shear and torsion.
Originally posted by Juntai
False. Cap isn't a better fighter.False. It's been proven that Dick can't even touch Batman hand to hand. I don't mean that in a metaphorical, he's not on his level way, either, but a very clear and distinct, can't even lay a finger on him. While the instant Bruce wants to land, he wrecks him.
Nah, Cap is certainly a better fighter.
That was years ago, luckily Dick has improved dramatically since then. Not to mention Dick is a more elusive fighter, even when on the offensive (more of a counter puncher than Bruce) so him pushing the attack like that really takes him out of his wheel house. Bruce would likely find himself similar unable to tag Dick, if all Dick concentrated on was evasion. 😎
Originally posted by abhilegend
Despero's mindrape amps characters? Where did you learn that? Btaman wasn't possessed by despero's spirit, he was just in mental control of batman.
I thought they got the same boost as when possessed by Despero, maybe I was mistaken.