Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't think you get my meaning.Triple H's influence backstage and over the direction of the WWE can't be denied. He is a writer who serves as one of the characters.
Aka PR Beyonder.
Mouth-breathers. estahuh
Hear of the Ring of Hell book, that delves into the seamy underbelly of professional wrestling, and focuses on Chris Benoit?
One of the writers sources told him he was forced to ride with the McMahons as part of an initiation into the company. The poor guy got to sit next to Vince screaming into his phone at a lawyer, telling him to bury someone that messed with him, while Steph was screaming into her phone about vacation reservations and how she wouldn't settle for anything less than the best suit.
Meanwhile, Triple H, also on the phone, is all relaxed with a big shit eating grin on his face, laughing and enjoying himself. 🙂
The man probably goes to sleep and wakes up every morning with that same smile on his face. No wonder Shane left the business.
Originally posted by Deadline
Using Hulk as an example is retarded
Originally posted by ankur29
yes.your right.
anywriter that thinks someone of cap's or BM powerset can beat a hulk level brick is retarded.
He's right, indeed.
Originally posted by Deadline
Excuse me...you've been trying to nitpick and downgrade Caps feats from the very beginning. How the hell do you get to classify Caps feats as PIS when you don't even know the character? 🤨
Originally posted by cdtm
Yes, because it's a nitpick to claim Cap beating down Hulk is PIS.Give me a break. 🙄
Originally posted by Deadline
No it isn't PIS because hes done stuff like that forever. If a character has been doing stuff like that for his whole career its not PIS.
Originally posted by cdtm
😆
Originally posted by Deadline
Not entirely sure why you're laughing but its true. If you're laughing because of that then you're showing you're ignorance again.
Originally posted by ankur29
it is still PIS in my opinion and various other logical comic book readers.let me ask you this if i dropped a gram, yes 1g on your foot would you feel it? would it hurt you???
it makes no sense for cap's/any MA punches to be even phasing/hurting the hulk/Rhino. Sure it can knock him back because cap is a 1 tonner(pretty generous imo, unless you wanna call him CL 100 based on him hurting hulk/rhino ) at best and can punch with an impact of about a 1-3 tons of force (i made these numbers up but sounds reasonable, no?).
And if we are being STRICT with the Hulk he can press lift at least 100 tons even at a calm level(any incarnation) without much exertion. His bones and muscles would hardly even move/feel 1 ton.
If you can press lift 50kg easily would you be fatigued/taxed by an impact corresponding to 500g-1kg???
YOU would hardly even notice the lactic acid build up, a 1kg weight/force corresponding to such.
Thus you see how foolish it is to accept these kind of feats. It impossible to believe.Writers who have cap/batman perform these level of feats are seriously deluded. characters of this calibre have no business fighting high end bricks.
it is plain silly and discredits the charecters. Cap and Batman's treasury of PIS fights is ridiculous.
.....
Your using science to dictate what shouldn’t be possible in an irrational fictional universe. So in other words people shouldn’t be able to gain powers by being exposed to radiation. That doesn’t make any sense either but it’s illogical for me to explain using science why it shouldn’t happen. We don’t decide what makes sense we allow the fictional universe to tell us what makes sense.
Heres some more examples. According to your logic Bullseyes feats are also PIS. Heres why, if you shoot a copper coin out of a gun you can’t kill somebody (its not dense enough) but despite this fact hes been able to kill somebody with a toothpick and make a paper aeroplane pass through a glass window. Bullseye can’t even break the sound barrier, a whole load of Bullseyes feats are PIS then because a lot of the objects he throws are not dense enough to do serious damage.
What about Wolverine. A strong human with no superhuman strength is capable of bruising him and making him bleed with a punch. What do you think 10 tons is going to do to Wolverine face or 50 tons? Hell if Spiderman hits Wolverine in the face their shouldn’t even be any flesh left on his face. I could show you scans of Spiderman punching him in the face, would you be screaming that it doesn‘t make any sense that he has any flesh on his face?
What about people in the class 100 range whos strength feats go into the 100s- to billions. Any example of a class 100 hitting Wolverine is PIS. Not only should he have no flesh on his face the sheer force of the punch would destroy all the flesh on his bones. The fact that doesn’t happen is PIS as well.
Heres another issue. Hasn’t Captain America mastered all oriental martial arts? Doesn’t that mean by default he can manipulate chi to a lesser degree? Cap has been shown on panel teaching Peter Parker how to use chi. Isn’t chi described as some supernatural or mystical force, so do you want to tell us whats logical for a mystical force? Hasn’t Shang Chi used his martial art training to detect Jean Grey who made herself invisible? Isn’t that PIS as well?
Both those guys know how to use chi but if Shang Chi does it it’s not PIS. So basically you’re trying to define what s super soldier who can manipulate a mystical force ( to a lesser degree if course) in a fictional universe can do.
Basically you are picking and choosing there are a lot of feats which are PIS according to your logic but you’ve just decided you’re going to pick on this one.
Originally posted by ankur29
yes.your right.
anywriter that thinks someone of cap's or BM powerset can beat a hulk level brick is retarded.
Heres the thing, I get on with you but you blatantly took that post out of context. To make matters worse you completely ignored point I was making in the post you responded to. I made my post concise and clear and it was a pretty easy point to get. There is a double standard why is it ok for one martial artist to do one thing and not the other? I’m pretty sure you don’t think what KK does is PIS. That’s basically taking liberties.
Originally posted by Bentley
I'd still give Batman the majority against most of those.
So what does that prove? Do you think he would destroy any of them in h2h? Maybe Bullseye on a good day.
Originally posted by BentleyYou've raised a very valid question regarding who could actually beat Captain in h2h if they both had the same bodies, he is indeed quite high up there.
In this particular match (his regular body, Batman's own body), I still see Batman having the best feats and holding some advantage overall.
Please provide some proof and a rational argument.
Originally posted by namorsubby
No, I'm not saying that. Out had nothing to do with what's mentioned.I said batman is more skilled because he displays more ma training, knowledge, and versatility in comics. statements pale in comparison to what's
actually shown on panel. If we go by statements primarily bruce is easily the best fighter in his universe.
So how is he supposed to show more MA knowledge and versatility if somebody doesn't state what martial art hes using? So in other words if Batman does anything its an example of him showing more ma knowledge and versatility.
He hasn't displayed more training. Again you are literially just making a statement and repeating it over and over again.
On and just to reinforce the point. Heres Cap using Akido on a guy with superhuman strength. Cap has been drained of his strength by the way..
http://i42.tinypic.com/2zxoa3n.jpg
Now it doesn't state that hes using chi but since Akido exists both in the marvel universe it means that Cap has mastered this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikido#Mental_training
Akido
Ki is most often understood as unified physical and mental intention, however in traditional martial arts it is often discussed as "life energy".
Cap doesn't need to state that hes using chi all the time but everybody has heard of it and since hes mastered these martial arts we can use it as an explanation.
Heres Cap teaching Spiderman how to use chi.
Originally posted by DeadlineNow it doesn't state that hes using chi but since Akido exists both in the marvel universe it means that Cap has mastered this.
...the fact Cap knows Aikido, and a random wiki page, is your proof he chi amps..
😘
Originally posted by Deadline
So how is he supposed to show more MA knowledge and versatility if somebody doesn't state what martial art hes using?
Maybe, whenever Cap is in a comic book fight he should break the 4th wall, explaining to the readers which martial art(s) he has just used. This should surely be enough proof of his extensive knowledge of martial arts.
Originally posted by cdtm
...the fact Cap knows Aikido, and a random wiki page, is your proof he chi amps..😘
See how you completely ignored the scan of him teaching Spiderman how to use chi?
Its a fact that Akido uses chi therefore if Cap has mastered Akido has to be able to use chi, get it? Don't believe me google Akido and other Japenese and Chinese martial arts. Akido doesn't stop using chi because its in the marvel universe.
Originally posted by BUSTER1
Maybe, whenever Cap is in a comic book fight he should break the 4th wall, explaining to the readers which martial art(s) he has just used. This should surely be enough proof of his extensive knowledge of martial arts.
😂
Originally posted by Deadline
See how you completely ignored the scan of him teaching Spiderman how to use chi?
You linked to a wiki that explains real life Aikido is based around a concept of chi. Yet it hardly enhances stats in real life...
Cap knowing a thing or two about the philosophy of aikido doesn't prove he can chi amp in the same way Colleen Wing can (Who, btw, also learned to focus her chi from her grandfather, but never displayed the ability to stat amp until after a mind meld with Danny.)
Originally posted by Deadline
Please provide some proof and a rational argument.
Again, the weight of proof is on you, you're the one assuming that a handful of Steve's feats are enough to match Batman's whole publishing history. None of the opponents you mentioned has Batman outgunned, I don't see anything irrational about considering him the winner after a fight.
Originally posted by Bentley
Again, the weight of proof is on you,
Is that so?
Originally posted by Bentley
you're the one assuming that a handful of Steve's feats are enough to match Batman's whole publishing history.
I don't know those were the best ones I could think of at the time, there are more. I posted a feat of a greatly weakened Cap using an Akido hold on somebody with superhuman strength, we have a feat of Cap making Thunderstrike look like a complete amateur. Thunderstrike is a skilled fighter with superhuman speed. If you really want to get into it he fought the Serpent Society over three issues. I think he got into four of five different fights. Now if we take that into consideration and the fights he has in a greatly weakened state thats about nine examples so far.
How about his encounter with Moonstone were he dodges a sneak laser attack from less than point blank range ie he was carrying her in his arms and she tried to blast him in the head while he was distracted. I've seen sources which say Moonstone has superhuman reflexes.
We have a fight with Cap tooling an upgraded Spiderman, we can pretty much assume Cap could tool standared Spiderman without the SSS.
We also have feats of him hurting and stunning bricks. He obvoulsy doesn't require the SSS to do that. So taking that into consideration Cap now has 100s of feats.
So are you trying to argue that his showings without the SSS has to equal Batmans whole entire publishing history? So Batman is more skilled than Mantis and KK? Of course not, both of them have enough feats to indicate they're more skilled than Batman, they don't need to even come close to his publishing history they just need a substantial amount and most (or even all of them) of Cap feats without the SSS are more impressive than what Batman does on a regular basis ie fight unskilled thugs.
Originally posted by Bentley
None of the opponents you mentioned has Batman outgunned, I don't see anything irrational about considering him the winner after a fight.
I could certainly argue that Crossbones has him outgunned. A guy Daredevil described as having a similar metabolism to Cap and actually managed to breifly get the advantage over Red Skull with the SSS and he was tired at the time....and thats before he had recieved his training from the Red Skull.
Yes its irrational, Batman fights thugs on a regular basis Cap doesn't require the SSS to stun bricks but Batman gets the benefit of the doubt? Thugs aren't more dangerous than Thunderball and Cap has loads of feats like that.
Not to mention we have Cap beating metas in a really frail state. We got him pressure pointing Giant Man and dodging a laser blast from Yellowjacket then landing him flat on this back. We have him taking out two peak human security guards as a 98lb weakling. We have Cap whose had his strength drained use an akido hold on Aquarian. We also have a greatly aged Cap who couldn't even see properly evade the sisters of sin...and he managed to dodge one of them strapped to a table!
Does Batman have feats like that in a similar state? Let me know.
Why should I be diplomatic about this when the Batman side hasn't provided a single shred of proof that Batman is more skilled? Instead your making demands while Batman fans make silly arguments like 'blood transfusions give you more stamina' and 'Batman is more skilled because he looks more stylish'? That sound reasonable to you?
I think I'm entitled to be a bit irritated and I think it's time you provided some proof to back up your opinion. I think I'm pretty much done now.
Originally posted by Bentley
Again, the weight of proof is on you, you're the one assuming that a handful of Steve's feats are enough to match Batman's whole publishing history. None of the opponents you mentioned has Batman outgunned, I don't see anything irrational about considering him the winner after a fight.
No, the weight of proof is on whoever is making claims period.
That includes you.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, the weight of proof is on whoever is making claims period.That includes you.
Bently isn't the one making outlandish statements, like stating Hulk regularly beats down characters on Hulks level though... (Or that Cap can augment his stats using chi control, using highly dodgy proof to reach that conclusion..)
Spidey has quite the history beating down high end bricks as well.. Examples abound from beating down Rhino and Mr. Hyde, to hurting Hulk, Surfer, and many others..
If it's SMvsFL for Spidey, it's certainly SMvsFL for the Spidey's physical inferior, Cap.
But Deadline also thinks Punisher beating down Bullseye and hitting Spidey with a gun shot is perfectly fine..
I guess when you cherry pick, all contrary evidence becomes the PIS. (Like choosing examples where Val Armorr struggles with streets, vs feats like clearing out tons of snow with a single punch, chopping through tanks, kicking through force fields, all of which were established as baseline for the character since his first ever showing..)
Originally posted by cdtm
Bently isn't the one making outlandish statements, like stating Hulk regularly beats down characters on Hulks level though...
I said he can stun and hurt bricks on a regular basis...I'm not sure if thats the same as beatdown. Deliberatly distorting what I said.
Originally posted by cdtm
(Or that Cap can augment his stats using chi control, using highly dodgy proof to reach that conclusion..)
Now you're putting words into my mouth and trolling again. I said he can use chi and provided a scan of him teaching Spiderman how to use it.
You can't say I'm making outlandish claims if you don't even know what I'm claiming in the first place. Obvoulsy you know what I'm on about you're just trying your best to distort it.
Originally posted by cdtmSpidey has quite the history beating down high end bricks as well.. Examples abound from beating down Rhino and Mr. Hyde, to hurting Hulk, Surfer, and many others..
Mr Hyde isn't even a top tier brick and Rhino has been classified as being class 25 before. So thats pretty reasonable. It also depend on the circumstances hes not a martial art expert but hes pretty smart and use his powers and possibly the envinronment to help him.
Hes not a martial artist and hasn't shown enough evidence to prove that he can hurt Surfer and Hulk on a regular basis.
Originally posted by cdtm
If it's SMvsFL for Spidey, it's certainly SMvsFL for the Spidey's physical inferior, Cap.
Except I've already pointed out that Cap is a martial arts expert and his skillset makes his punches more effective than Spidermans.
Originally posted by cdtmBut Deadline also thinks Punisher beating down Bullseye and hitting Spidey with a gun shot is perfectly fine..
I guess when you cherry pick, all contrary evidence becomes the PIS. (Like choosing examples where Val Armorr struggles with streets, vs feats like clearing out tons of snow with a single punch, chopping through tanks, kicking through force fields, all of which were established as baseline for the character since his first ever showing..)
LOL so now you're arguing that Punisher can't beat Bullseye in h2h. So you're specifically looking for things to argue about.
I'm not cherry picking anything. Nothing is 100% consistent what I'm saying is you look at what characters can do on a regular basis. So in the case you look at what Val can do on a regular basis. You're just trying to accuse me of cherry picking because I accused somebody else. Anyway should pretty much start ignoring you now you're obvously just trying to annoy me.
Originally posted by DeadlineIf you wanna play dumb like the only way for a writer to inform the reader of a characters knowledge of something is through having them directly mention it themselves then go ahead. What I'm saying is bruce's period of training is much more documented and actually shown throughout his arcs specifically. He also has many more instances that allude to various techniques, mas, or specific moves that he has learned. On top of that he just plain exhibits his knowledge of various mas often. For example, he'll encounter a random foe skilled in some specific ma and he'll recognize it. or he'll fight using a specific style in order to defeat a certain skilled opponent.
So what does that prove? Do you think he would destroy any of them in h2h? Maybe Bullseye on a good day.Please provide some proof and a rational argument.
So how is he supposed to show more MA knowledge and versatility if somebody doesn't state what martial art hes using? So in other words if Batman does anything its an example of him showing more ma knowledge and versatility.
He hasn't displayed more training. Again you are literially just making a statement and repeating it over and over again.
Originally posted by Deadline
So are you trying to argue that his showings without the SSS has to equal Batmans whole entire publishing history? So Batman is more skilled than Mantis and KK? Of course not, both of them have enough feats to indicate they're more skilled than Batman, they don't need to even come close to his publishing history they just need a substantial amount and most (or even all of them) of Cap feats without the SSS are more impressive than what Batman does on a regular basis ie fight unskilled thugs.
I'll conceed the showing argument, despite the fact that the comparision with Mantis or KK is outlandish. Nothing even comes close to suggest non-SSS Cap has that sort of advantage against anyone.
Originally posted by Deadline
Thunderstrike is a skilled fighter with superhuman speed.
It depends, at the beginning of his career he was quite the newb.
Originally posted by Deadline
I've seen sources which say Moonstone has superhuman reflexes.
Barely relevant, and I cannot vouch for that being truth.
Originally posted by Deadline
We have a fight with Cap tooling an upgraded Spiderman, we can pretty much assume Cap could tool standared Spiderman without the SSS.
I'm going to ignore this argument because it's wildly based on speculation.
Originally posted by Deadline
We also have feats of him hurting and stunning bricks. He obvoulsy doesn't require the SSS to do that. So taking that into consideration Cap now has 100s of feats.
Hurting bricks is not the kind of ability needed to face Batman...
Originally posted by Deadline
I could certainly argue that Crossbones has him outgunned. A guy Daredevil described as having a similar metabolism to Cap and actually managed to breifly get the advantage over Red Skull with the SSS and he was tired at the time....and thats before he had recieved his training from the Red Skull.
Now, this is an argument worthy of a discussion, it's a bit on the sidelines but I'll take it into consideration.
Originally posted by Deadline
Yes its irrational, Batman fights thugs on a regular basis Cap doesn't require the SSS to stun bricks but Batman gets the benefit of the doubt? Thugs aren't more dangerous than Thunderball and Cap has loads of feats like that.
If Batman can neutralize high end bricks such as Gorilla Grodd without using weapons I don't see how "fighting thugs on a regular basis" has any repercussion with his skill. If Cap fought 5 year olds in a regular basis that wouldn't make him any less skilled.
Originally posted by Deadline
Not to mention we have Cap beating metas in a really frail state. Does Batman have feats like that in a similar state? Let me know.
Will put it on my to-do list.
Originally posted by Deadline
I think I'm entitled to be a bit irritated and I think it's time you provided some proof to back up your opinion. I think I'm pretty much done now.
I agree, the lack of proof is discouraging. Sorry for making you lose your time.
Originally posted by Deadline
[B]
LOL so now you're arguing that Punisher can't beat Bullseye in h2h. So you're specifically looking for things to argue about.
Why would I argue Punisher can't beat Bullseye? To argue that Punisher can't beat Bullseye without PIS, implies Punisher being on Bullseyes level in h2h is arguable. It implies Castle is better than Elektra, and at least comparable to Daredevil, in raw h2h skill. I think only you would believe that, Deadline.
So we've established you think Castle beating Bullseye is not PIS, and that Cap beating down Hulk is not PIS. You also claimed Cap beats characters on Hulks level all the time.
At this point, I have no idea why anyone is arguing seriously against you here, as those two beliefs alone outdo Quanchi's belief that Thanos could defeat Odin.
No, Quanchi's belief actually makes more sense, given how Thanos has survived attacks from characters on or above Odin's level, on multiple occasions.. (Omega, Tyrant, Kosmos)
