Captain America wins. If not as skilled he's so close that Batman would have almost no advantage in that regard (Although I don't know why Steve wouldn't based on his history) while I think Captain America has the physical advantage that ranges from slight to very noticeable. Particularly in modern times when Steve isn't a peak human but more of a super soldier.
Batman is more skilled, Cap is physically superior. Neither has a great advantage in either category. Every time marvel has teamed up with dc to have them fight, they've been shown as virtually equal. Non canon or otherwise it shows what their opinion is on this match up. So, the guys that make the comics agree with me.
Originally posted by namorsubby
Batman is more skilled, Cap is physically superior. Neither has a great advantage in either category. Every time marvel has teamed up with dc to have them fight, they've been shown as virtually equal. Non canon or otherwise it shows what their opinions on this match up. So, the guys that make the comics agree with me.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America wins. If not as skilled he's so close that Batman would have almost no advantage in that regard (Although I don't know why Steve wouldn't based on his history) while I think Captain America has the physical advantage that ranges from slight to very noticeable. Particularly in modern times when Steve isn't a peak human but more of a super soldier.
exactly. i meant to clarify also that the statement about being adept/skilled in all known forms of H2H combat took place in the early, EARLY issues of avengers and referred to steve's skill BEFORE being frozen in WW2.
The formation of the avengers was about 15 years or so ago in marvel time by this point, and Cap has done nothing but train and fight superhumans since then. His skill level is pretty damn high, and easily the equivalent of batman, given the timeframe. Current batman is what? 34? 35?
Physically, I think it's been clarified that steve is "the peak of human evolutionary potential", not "peak human" as say daredevil or batman is. you can't hit his level by training. Steve can run 60mph while carrying others, carry telephone poles around with one arm, jump from helicopters sans parachute, leap two stories straight up and can literally "see faster" than normal humans can to assist in dodging projectiles. He's been shot in the head point blank and gotten up minutes later. Gambit charged his suit in AvX and exploded it and it only pissed Cap off. On top of all that, Steve's body doesn't produce fatigue poisons and doesn't tire out. Even if Batman and Cap were literally equal in every other category, not getting exhausted is a hell of an advantage.
There's no plausible way for Bruce to beat Steve in a fight with these conditions- unarmed and in a ring. He'd lose every single time.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He'd lose a majority, but not every single time.
unarmed and in a ring? I can't see how he could get a win, assuming their skills are equal. Given the info available there's not much argument that Bruce is better. Equivalent, maybe. Better? no.
Cap is much faster, much stronger, far more durable, with higher endurance and better reaction times. A lucky hit isn't going to do it, and given the lack of fatigue for steve the longer the fight goes the better off he is. Bruce would have to KO him immediately, and doesn't have the skillset.
put this fight in gotham, or an arena that allows batman to play to his strengths (stealth, using the environment, getting creative) and i'd agree with the "majority" argument.
a UFC ring? no.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17In one fight they stalemate for several hours. In another batman acknowledged that Cap could "possibly" best him, but it would take a very long time....pretty much acknowledging Caps superior stamina.
I could have sworn they normally reference Cap's physical superiority in x-over's and nothing really on a skill advantage by Bruce.
All that aside, the feats themselves suggest the same thing. Both advantages counter act each other and make for a very tough fight.
Originally posted by namorsubby
In one fight they stalemate for several hours. In another batman acknowledged that Cap could "possibly" best him, but it would take a very long time....pretty much acknowledging Caps superior stamina.All that aside, the feats themselves suggest the same thing. Both advantages counter act each other abs make for a very tough fight.
true, but these crossovers aren't definitive for several reasons.
1.) both of those two crossovers are fairly old. Feats for both characters have changed significantly since the 1990s/2004, and we've seen them outperform their established limits set back then. (see: Cap being blown up by gambit yet mostly unaffected).
2.) crossovers are notorious for ignoring established canon for the sake of a better story. Cap *one shots bane* in JLA/Avengers almost as a throwaway panel. Batman takes out Taskmaster in one panel in the same crossover. Neither feat is actually plausible.
3.) given 1 and 2, when considering a match between these two, established feats as they exist in their individual titles up to this point outweigh that crossover. on that basis cap's edge is definitive- as another poster pointed out the tendency has been to make cap MUCH stronger than he was typically portrayed back then. Current Cap was stalemating spider man in civil war in H2H. 1990s cap wasn't that good.
edit: oh wait, wasn't that first crossover fan voted? the same one that had wolverine taking out lobo, and wonder woman losing to storm? (double edit: yup)
Originally posted by Caps Conscience
Cap WTF shitstomps him.
agreed. hate to dogpile this on, but I do have to be leaving soon.
Bucky/Cap gives Rogers' stats (strength/speed) as three times his own.
Cap clearly isn't "peak human", he's somewhere around triple that with crazy high fighting skills that let him punch above his weight class. There's no plausible way for Bruce to defeat him here.
Originally posted by leonidas
pretty funny after all these pages that people still see this as a stomp. 😂 cap would win a majority, but bats would take some, and it's likely each of the 10 fights would take hours to finish.
ok, length of the fight aside (which works against bruce here) how does bruce win 2/10 or 3/10 against steve, given he's unarmed and in a ring here.
i agree the fight lenght works against bruce (though he did fight for 28 straight hrs at one point which is greater than any fight duration steve has has iirc....) steve is not immune to accumulated damage, nor does he have an overly impressive hf to compensate for getting hit with nerve strikes and the like. i'd actually say bats is more skilled, and would land at least as many hits. in 2-3 he could land significant ones that could swing things in his favor. cap's speed and strength would make this unlikely over a number of fights, but not impossible, so i'd def give bats 2-3/10 with no other equipment. with standard gear things change.
Originally posted by leonidas
steve is not immune to accumulated damage, nor does he have an overly impressive hf to compensate for getting hit with nerve strikes and the like
Steve isn't immune to accumulated damage, but his damage soak is most certainly higher than Bruce's is here. IF they're pounding on each other in equal measure, Bruce goes down first. But they won't be, because Steve is stronger than Bruce is by a fair margin. He's going to be hitting harder AND taking less damage.
i'd actually say bats is more skilled, and would land at least as many hits.
and you would be wrong. Both crossovers including one that was fan voted to ensure batman won said the exact opposite. Steve is (or was) equivalently skilled, with a slight edge. Neither one is taking the other out with nerve strikes here.
in 2-3 he could land significant ones that could swing things in his favor. cap's speed and strength would make this unlikely over a number of fights, but not impossible, so i'd def give bats 2-3/10 with no other equipment. with standard gear things change. [/B]
how does he land "significant hits" given that he's easily at LEAST twice as slow as cap is? Bucky says cap is three times faster than he is, so I'm being generous here and assuming Bruce is at least 30% faster than Winter Soldier.
Cap has been shown running at 60mph and sustaining it for several miles. Usain Bolt fastest man alive is clocked at 27.44 mph, for a few hundred meters. So even the movement speed of the best olympic runner who's ever lived is still HALF what rogers is- and can't sustain it anywhere near as long.
Cap has also been shown stating his reaction time is superhuman, due to the serum.
Daredevil can't even perceive Cap at ALL when he doesn't want to be, and Daredevil's senses are MUCH better than Bruce's. In a serious fight, Bruce is getting dominated on speed alone here.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
Steve isn't immune to accumulated damage, but his damage soak is most certainly higher than Bruce's is here. IF they're pounding on each other in equal measure, Bruce goes down first.and you would be wrong. Both crossovers including one that was fan voted to ensure batman won said the exact opposite. Steve is (or was) equivalently skilled, with a slight edge.
lol
i'd be wrong? iYo you mean? even iron fist commented on the simplicity of steve's 'style'.
how does he land "significant hits" given that he's easily at LEAST twice as slow as cap is? Bucky says cap is three times faster than he is, so I'm being generous here and assuming Bruce is at least 30% faster than Winter Soldier.Cap has been shown running at 60mph and sustaining it for several miles. Usain Bolt fastest man alive is clocked at 27.44 mph, for a few hundred meters.
Cap has also been shown stating his reaction time is superhuman, due to the serum.
Daredevil can't even perceive Cap at ALL when he doesn't want to be, and Daredevil's senses are MUCH better than Bruce's. In a serious fight, Bruce is getting dominated on speed alone here. [/B]
dd has done extremely well against cap time and again, so, contrary to what he may have thought, his battles speak for themselves. as far as the rest--bats has too many superhuman level style feats of his own to go into including bullet dodging speed, moving railroad cars, kicking down trees, beating.....too many superhumans (including deathstroke who actually HAS a true hf) to bother going into. if you're laboring (as many do) under the impression that bats is 'just human', well, this discussion is over because you don't know batman very well, or his feat history. and that's a common mistake. he's performed too many superhuman feats and beaten too many superhuman characters to pigeonhole him into an area you (or so many others) THINK he should be in. bats has proven time and again he is BEYOND (well beyond by some depictions) the even 'peak' human labels he is constantly ascribed.
incidentally, i'd say cap and ds are about as close to equals as you can get, and the fact that bats has beaten him (only a couple times) is telling of how a cap/bats battle would go.