Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
A fair assessment cuz batman is the one who got his level to cap's. which incourages me to say that bat' has it 6/10.

Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Well the question you need to ask your self is who is the better manipulator? Who can better manipulate the order?

Originally posted by brainchild81
His level is a very small bit below Cap's, only because of the serum

In this case, the more physical one. Both of these guys are masters @ doing the absolute best w/what they have. The way Batman manipulates people in other situations won't apply here

Very true, i mean Cap is a guy who runs a mile in a minute. That much endurance the serum gave him. I say this is the toughest street-level fight Batman will ever face. Both Steve and Bruce thinks well while fighting, but Bruce the cunning one. He has to come up with something to win.

Originally posted by King KAM
he explains....

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6365591

I just read Captain America #17 and you know, he didn't do that great in the fight. First of all, he got punched by one of the military units and one of them even caught his shield. That pretty much refutes the superiority of "seeing faster" in contrast to other superheroes.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6365591

I just read Captain America #17 and you know, he didn't do that great in the fight. First of all, he got punched by one of the military units and one of them even caught his shield. That pretty much refutes the superiority of "seeing faster" in contrast to other superheroes.

Every hero get punched now and than.

Originally posted by joesha28
Every hero get punched now and than.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6365591

I just read Captain America #17 and you know, he didn't do that great in the fight. First of all, he got punched by one of the military units and one of them even caught his shield. That pretty much refutes the superiority of "seeing faster" in contrast to other superheroes.

Indeed, if had that been a killer blow that would have ended Captain America's life for ever. It continues to prove that without his shield Captain America's defense blocks level drops.

If that had been a killer blow that would have ended Batman'a life forever,It continues to prove that without prep and the element of surpirse Batman can be beaten by random thugs.

I'll give you that one because Batman was careless. However, it still doesn't dimiss the fact that without his shield Captain America is NOT the same in combat. He was trained to figth WITH his shield. You cannot say he's the same without it.

Originally posted by Silent Master

If that had been a killer blow that would have ended Batman'a life forever,It continues to prove that without prep and the element of surpirse Batman can be beaten by random thugs.

That's the most PIS thing I have ever seen in my life. Batman has catched arrows behind his back...even Deadman (WHO IS A GHOST) can't sneak up on him...who wrote that...?

Originally posted by King KAM
yep, hell even the flash......

Captain America #17 was where he said "I just see faster." And he still got punched and his shield jacked. Brainchild was saying Cap would see stuff like this from a mile away but obviously not.

That's a tad bit different from Batman poking his eyes out in single combat don't ya think?

Originally posted by joesha28
Very true, i mean Cap is a guy who runs a mile in a minute. That much endurance the serum gave him. I say this is the toughest street-level fight Batman will ever face. Both Steve and Bruce thinks well while fighting, but Bruce the cunning one. He has to come up with something to win.

Okay, arguments:

Batman -

Suit Endurance/Armor
Blades On Side Of Gauntlet
Intelligence/Genius/Photographic Memory (Eidetic)
"Better"/Qualitive Experience (More productive learning/More extensive)
More Versatile In Fights (Uses his 127 forms whereas Cap doesn't branch out as much)
Sneakier
"Authentic" Physiological Shape
Proved To Be Good Even Without Weapons (Moreso than Steve at least)
Strategist/Tactician
Knowledge (Batman simply just knows more; the construction of buildings, chemicals/raw materials in his sorroundings, and mastery of key interests like escape artistry, forensics, medical science)

Captain America -

Stronger (8:7 ratio at least)
Faster (Mile a minute speed)
Stamina/Durability
Strategist/Tactician
More/Quantitive "Experience" (War)
Super Serum

Just from my perspective

Captain America has armor too, which is something that you keep leaving out.

If we are counting the blades in his gauntlet for Batman, shouldn't we be counting the energy shield since Cap keeps the generator in his glove

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Captain America has armor too, which is something that you keep leaving out.

Duralumin chainmail is what you mean. Its a chain armor of duralumin alloy (Something made in the 1900s which is now obsolete). Not to mention chain armor can be easily pierced with swords, axes, and bullets (the samurai wore this). It doesn't help Captain America at all considering his super serum and chainmail armor, in the present, is now used for decorative purposes.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If we are counting the blades in his gauntlet for Batman, shouldn't we be counting the energy shield since Cap keeps the generator in his glove

Is it literally ON the gauntlet or hid inside the gauntlet?

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Okay, arguments:

Batman -

Suit Endurance/Armor
Blades On Side Of Gauntlet
Intelligence/Genius/Photographic Memory (Eidetic)
"Better"/Qualitive Experience (More productive learning/More extensive)
More Versatile In Fights (Uses his 127 forms whereas Cap doesn't branch out as much)
Sneakier
"Authentic" Physiological Shape
Proved To Be Good Even Without Weapons (Moreso than Steve at least)
Strategist/Tactician
Knowledge (Batman simply just knows more; the construction of buildings, chemicals/raw materials in his sorroundings, and mastery of key interests like escape artistry, forensics, medical science)

Captain America -

Stronger (8:7 ratio at least)
Faster (Mile a minute speed)
Stamina/Durability
Strategist/Tactician
More/Quantitive "Experience" (War)
Super Serum

Just from my perspective

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Indeed, if had that been a killer blow that would have ended Captain America's life for ever. It continues to prove that without his shield Captain America's defense blocks level drops.

I've been in agreement with this for a long time.

Cap is a great fighter without his shield but he's the legendary CapAmerica because of his shield, after all isn't his training based around his shield?

Batman on the other hand is a hand to hand master of all arts, his gadgets do not make him, his intelligence and wisdom make him.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Duralumin chainmail is what you mean. Its a chain armor of duralumin alloy (Something made in the 1900s which is now obsolete). Not to mention chain armor can be easily pierced with swords, axes, and bullets (the samurai wore this). It doesn't help Captain America at all considering his super serum and chainmail armor, in the present, is now used for decorative purposes.