Captain America vs Batman(no shield-no gadgets)

Originally posted by King KAM
i cant argue that bats doesnt have virtually super-human agility??? im pretty sure i can considering, bats doesnt show to be bearly as agile,

Is this some kind of joke? I went through this entire thread to see what's been said, opinions and facts and what not.
I seen your name many times, you should know there has been plenty of scans displaying Batman's agility which is atleast equal to Cap's.

Originally posted by King KAM
and you saying bats can hit harder is bullshit, cap has knocked everyone from namor to ironman on his ass, by sayin that batmans"chi" makes him a harder striker is BS,

Which is why you should know it's pis when Cap knocks Namor or Iron man anywhere, I'm not telling you Batman strikes harder because of pis plots in comics, but because of the sensible logic behind it.
Captain America has a maximum strength of 800 lbs he can lift over his head with Supreme Effort! Yet he's knocking guys who can lift 85 Tons and over, PIS. Batman on the other hand has a more practicle explanation for his superior striking power, by channeling his "chi" force, which he can do now instantly being a master and all, he can cause his body to exert pressure beyond the capacity of any normal human being, upto a near superhuman level, and it's something any human can achieve with discipline and training, even in real life, maybe not to Batman's scope, but come on, he's Batman.

If Batman was holding his own with the like of Namor and Iron man, I would call that PIS aswell.

Originally posted by King KAM
bats has more will than cap??? BULLSHIT!!!!!! No-one in comics has more will than cap,

LOL, had to laugh on that one, dude even cosmics have been impressed by Batman's will, he's legendary for it.

Originally posted by King KAM
and as for bats being a better strategist.....not in fighting...bats is a better scientist...but not a better strategist in fighting

Now your gassing Cap to a level he just doesn't belong in, Cap is in the shadow of guys like Batman and Doom when it comes to strategizing, they are the masters, although Reed is up there too.

Originally posted by King KAM
show me bats speed feats.... im not going by any writers im going by what ive seen, if bats is this fast and this agile....show me.

Come on Kam, haven't you seen enough of Bat's incredible speed feats, their all over this thread, dozens of them.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Why is this even a debate? Batman himself said that Cap would beat him in h2h.

Cap 10/10

This is a debate and obviously a good one by the number of replies because Bats never said that.

He said "it's CONCEIVABLE you could beat me avenger, but it would take you a long time", not to mention it was a cross-over, which automatically kills it's canon potential.

But if we study what he said, the writers were atleast slick enough to write that in,

(Conceivable): which means: capable of being imagined or grasped mentally, but not absolute in the sense of being.

So, so much for that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Is this some kind of joke? I went through this entire thread to see what's been said, opinions and facts and what not.
I seen your name many times, you should know there has been plenty of scans displaying Batman's agility which is atleast equal to Cap's.

Which is why you should know it's pis when Cap knocks Namor or Iron man anywhere, I'm not telling you Batman strikes harder because of pis plots in comics, but because of the sensible logic behind it.
Captain America has a maximum strength of 800 lbs he can lift over his head with Supreme Effort! Yet he's knocking guys who can lift 85 Tons and over, PIS. Batman on the other hand has a more practicle explanation for his superior striking power, by channeling his "chi" force, which he can do now instantly being a master and all, he can cause his body to exert pressure beyond the capacity of any normal human being, upto a near superhuman level, and it's something any human can achieve with discipline and training, even in real life, maybe not to Batman's scope, but come on, he's Batman.

If Batman was holding his own with the like of Namor and Iron man, I would call that PIS aswell.

LOL, had to laugh on that one, dude even cosmics have been impressed by Batman's will, he's legendary for it.

Now your gassing Cap to a level he just doesn't belong in, Cap is in the shadow of guys like Batman and Doom when it comes to strategizing, they are the masters, although Reed is up there too.

Come on Kam, haven't you seen enough of Bat's incredible speed feats, their all over this thread, dozens of them.

Strike force...all that chi is whack, and PIS??? cap does it all the time, marvel has written that cap is 800lbs over his head max, yet he has feats which require more.

Captain america is also ledgendary for his will, even the beyonder was in awe of his will.

they are up there in preperations, and gidgets and gizmos, when it comes to fighting gameplans, cap is king.

yes but none of them are him leaping from buildings and swinging with one hand nor running 60mph....now are they?

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is a debate and obviously a good one by the number of replies because Bats never said that.

He said "it's CONCEIVABLE you could beat me avenger, but it would take you a long time", not to mention it was a cross-over, which automatically kills it's canon potential.

But if we study what he said, the writers were atleast slick enough to write that in,

(Conceivable): which means: capable of being imagined or grasped mentally, but not absolute in the sense of being.

So, so much for that.

Originally posted by King KAM
and hes more agile,quick,fast,strong,and far more durable, and has a better stamina....

Exaggeration!

The way it should read:

Bats:
Cap:

Agility - same

Quickness - Bats

Speed - same

Strength - Cap(slightly)

Durability - Same(since Batman is wearing his suit in this fight)

Stamina - Cap

Intelligence - Bats by far

Striking power - Bats

Originally posted by Mr Master
Exaggeration!

The way it should read:

Bats:
Cap:

Agility - same

Quickness - Bats

Speed - same

Strength - Cap(slightly)

Durability - Same(since Batman is wearing his suit in this fight)

Stamina - Cap

Intelligence - Bats by far

Striking power - Bats

Originally posted by King KAM
I read the thread, and nope bats hasnt shown to be as agile as cap, he hasnt dogded bullets or lazer in zero gravity, nor has he tagged speedster and leaped around gangs of oppnents like he was spider-man.

Ok I think I'm gonna have to go through the pain of getting those scans where Bats is dodging machine gun fire, I know you seen them, why your saying that I don't know.

As for Zero Gravity, Bat's didn't dodge a lazer, Bats actually took Zero Gravity head on, when he was testing his limits and survived in the vacuum of space unprotected for 24 seconds, Martian Manhunter was in awe.

And he has tagged speedsters, in this thread there is evidence and I will get it and re-post it.

Leaping around gangs of opponents?

This doesn't deserve a reply.

Originally posted by King KAM
Strike force...all that chi is whack, and PIS??? cap does it all the time, marvel has written that cap is 800lbs over his head max, yet he has feats which require more.

Why is it whack, cuz you don't like it, what is this the world according to Kam,
It is what it is, just like Cap took a non-existent formula to make him a better man, Bats has chi force behind his strikes, sorry if you don't like it.

Originally posted by King KAM
Captain america is also ledgendary for his will, even the beyonder was in awe of his will.

Don't make outlandish claims, unless you have proof, I know everything there is to know about Classic Beyonder, I have every issue he ever appeared in, Secret Wars titles and continuation titles, so don't tell me you don't have a scanner cuz I have the comics, if you don't have scans tell me the tilte and issue#, so I can verify your claim.

... How can you say Batman has an edge in agility or speed? He isn't even peak human in those areas where as Cap is superhuman in both. Nightwing has peak human agilit and speed, he is above Bruce in both of those areas.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok I think I'm gonna have to go through the pain of getting those scans where Bats is dodging machine gun fire, I know you seen them, why your saying that I don't know.

As for Zero Gravity, Bat's didn't dodge a lazer, Bats actually took Zero Gravity head on, when he was testing his limits and survived in the vacuum of space unprotected for 24 seconds, Martian Manhunter was in awe.

And he has tagged speedsters, in this thread there is evidence and I will get it and re-post it.

Leaping around gangs of opponents?

This doesn't deserve a reply.

Why is it whack, cuz you don't like it, what is this the world according to Kam,
It is what it is, just like Cap took a non-existent formula to make him a better man, Bats has chi force behind his strikes, sorry if you don't like it.

Don't make outlandish claims, unless you have proof, I know everything there is to know about Classic Beyonder, I have every issue he ever appeared in, Secret Wars titles and continuation titles, so don't tell me you don't have a scanner cuz I have the comics, if you don't have scans tell me the tilte and issue#, so I can verify your claim.

then why isnt batman always using this chi force???

you ask and i will deliver...... http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica308199qo.jpg
http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica308204lf.jpg
the beyonder tells about how caps will to win is what is so special about him...right there.

Originally posted by King KAM
it was cannon, and that was bats admitting defeat, he just didnt want to seem like a punk, bats TALKED his way out of that fight, he didnt even give it a shot, so in other words in their only real fight, bats forfeited.

ITS NOT CANON. And if it really did happen, it's already been retconned by everybody except you.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
ITS NOT CANON. And if it really did happen, it's already been retconned by everybody except you.

It's not any more canon than Marvel vs. DC. You can say that its least respectable because fans voted, but that was the big event of '96 and was probably meant to be canon, but both are retconned, so don't try to use it as evidence for cap.

Originally posted by King KAM
i once used a wrench, and torqued it so hard it broke...that wrench was more thick than that pipe....and im not as strong as bats...

you say cap isnt a versatile, yet cap has shown that he is a versatile as EVERY opponent he has ever faced....he has never lost a fight because he wasnt versatile enough, and has fought against fighters from all around the world, cap is as versatile as it gets. in fighting you need 3 things to be well rounded. Grappling,Takedowns,and Striking, cap is a master of all 3. his style is no style, he's fluid.

I don't care about the opponents he faced, none of them are Batman. He'll never be as versatile as Batman. All he ever does is Judo and Kick Boxing. Batman will always win hand to hand.

cap has knocked everyone from namor to ironman

PIS.

No-one in comics has more will than cap

Opinion.

so then he'd just do that to bats, considering bats couldnt keep up with his agility....

That's bull, you've seen speed feats from both.

you guys dont get it..... the shield aint the weapon....Captain America is the weapon, the shield is simply an extension

I don't think so. Cap gets his butt whooped by Punisher, Dare Devil, and people even WITH his shield. Imagine if he lost that shield. He'd get owned by all of those people, including Batman.

And as this fight becomes more clear, its Brains vs. Brawns, or Brains AND Brawns vs. More Brawns.

I would have to go with Captain America in this scenario...

Cap will hold on with his durability.

i really don't get how this thread can drag on so long hell even both companies have acknowledged this simple and utter fact of the matter...

these guys are equal... nuff said.. they are equal in feats, will, and jobber aura.. there's a reason why they are portrayed as equals everytime they meet up with eachother...

this fight will go down exactly as I stated before... it will be a dead draw until batman starts losing stamina and cap doesn't...

the only questionable factor is batman's suit, if he's wearing spectra his damage soak will be too insane for captain america to overcome, but considering that this thread pretty much demands for a h2h fight between the two w/o weapons or such I assume he's wearing his regs.
that said, the fight ends when batman slows down....

seriously... it's argued that captain america is superhuman.. strictly speaking batman on countless occasions has displayed superhuman feats... nobody with batmans speed, agility, and build should be able to shoulder press a thousand pound ceiling for any prolonged period of time.. but hey batman's done it.

as for cap being better than batman at agility; I'd say that's nothing more than bias opinion.. batman's training and nightly routine puts an emphasis in agility cap has his by default...

I've always found the claim that nightwing being his superior in such areas to be a bit of a stretch due to batman's feats contradicting the claim (seriously the people that doubt batman's agility being at least on par with captain america's need to pick up a damned batman comic), nightwing may possibly be better than batman but it wouldn't be by that much.. whatever edge nightwing has over bats in agility, he has over the cap as well.

as for the question concerning batman's reluctancy to use his chi amping all the time.. guess you don't read batman either.. he has a strict moral code that prohibits him from killing people... if he did amp his chi levels he would be using the same destructive force that he uses to rend through trees, brick walls, and steel doors on regular people... it would kill them hence.. he doesn't use it all the time.. but he does have the ability, hell it's a described capability.... why people continue to question this but can accept that cap knows all the world's fighting styles is totally beyond me...

Originally posted by jinzin
i really don't get how this thread can drag on so long hell even both companies have acknowledged this simple and utter fact of the matter...

these guys are equal... nuff said.. they are equal in feats, will, and jobber aura.. there's a reason why they are portrayed as equals everytime they meet up with eachother...

this fight will go down exactly as I stated before... it will be a dead draw until batman starts losing stamina and cap doesn't...

the only questionable factor is batman's suit, if he's wearing spectra his damage soak will be too insane for captain america to overcome, but considering that this thread pretty much demands for a h2h fight between the two w/o weapons or such I assume he's wearing his regs.
that said, the fight ends when batman slows down....

seriously... it's argued that captain america is superhuman.. strictly speaking batman on countless occasions has displayed superhuman feats... nobody with batmans speed, agility, and build should be able to shoulder press a thousand pound ceiling for any prolonged period of time.. but hey batman's done it.

as for cap being better than batman at agility; I'd say that's nothing more than bias opinion.. batman's training and nightly routine puts an emphasis in agility cap has his by default...

I've always found the claim that nightwing being his superior in such areas to be a bit of a stretch due to batman's feats contradicting the claim (seriously the people that doubt batman's agility being at least on par with captain america's need to pick up a damned batman comic), nightwing may possibly be better than batman but it wouldn't be by that much.. whatever edge nightwing has over bats in agility, he has over the cap as well.

as for the question concerning batman's reluctancy to use his chi amping all the time.. guess you don't read batman either.. he has a strict moral code that prohibits him from killing people... if he did amp his chi levels he would be using the same destructive force that he uses to rend through trees, brick walls, and steel doors on regular people... it would kill them hence.. he doesn't use it all the time.. but he does have the ability, hell it's a described capability.... why people continue to question this but can accept that cap knows all the world's fighting styles is totally beyond me...

Originally posted by jinzin
i really don't get how this thread can drag on so long hell even both companies have acknowledged this simple and utter fact of the matter...

these guys are equal... nuff said.. they are equal in feats, will, and jobber aura.. there's a reason why they are portrayed as equals everytime they meet up with eachother...

this fight will go down exactly as I stated before... it will be a dead draw until batman starts losing stamina and cap doesn't...

the only questionable factor is batman's suit, if he's wearing spectra his damage soak will be too insane for captain america to overcome, but considering that this thread pretty much demands for a h2h fight between the two w/o weapons or such I assume he's wearing his regs.
that said, the fight ends when batman slows down....

seriously... it's argued that captain america is superhuman.. strictly speaking batman on countless occasions has displayed superhuman feats... nobody with batmans speed, agility, and build should be able to shoulder press a thousand pound ceiling for any prolonged period of time.. but hey batman's done it.

as for cap being better than batman at agility; I'd say that's nothing more than bias opinion.. batman's training and nightly routine puts an emphasis in agility cap has his by default...

I've always found the claim that nightwing being his superior in such areas to be a bit of a stretch due to batman's feats contradicting the claim (seriously the people that doubt batman's agility being at least on par with captain america's need to pick up a damned batman comic), nightwing may possibly be better than batman but it wouldn't be by that much.. whatever edge nightwing has over bats in agility, he has over the cap as well.

as for the question concerning batman's reluctancy to use his chi amping all the time.. guess you don't read batman either.. he has a strict moral code that prohibits him from killing people... if he did amp his chi levels he would be using the same destructive force that he uses to rend through trees, brick walls, and steel doors on regular people... it would kill them hence.. he doesn't use it all the time.. but he does have the ability, hell it's a described capability.... why people continue to question this but can accept that cap knows all the world's fighting styles is totally beyond me...

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence

you guys dont get it..... the shield aint the weapon....Captain America is the weapon, the shield is simply an extension

I don't think so. Cap gets his butt whooped by Punisher, Dare Devil, and people even WITH his shield. Imagine if he lost that shield. He'd get owned by all of those people, including Batman. [/B]

and as for it being PIS when captain america knocks down people like namor and ironman, it aint, because cap isnt human, no matter what the handbooks say, no human being can jump out of a helicopter from over 100 feet and stick the landing repeatedly,nor run 60mph, these things are superhuman, cap is superhuman

I'll say Cap 6.5/10