Insults to muslims or freedom of speech?

Started by markie35 pages

Re: -=- My Views On the Muslim Cartoons -=-

Originally posted by Koala MeatPie
My Views Expressed through the mouth of a Middle Eastern Muslim:

"We do not like your generalized stereotypical Portraying of Our people, We do not like you showing us as violent fundamentalist ingrates.

So we will rampage the streets, burn down your embassies, and kill 20 people.
Without Forgetting to put a bounty on the cartoonist's head"

So you act like fundamentalist ingrates because somebody printed some cartoons. You are portraying yourselves like fundamentalist ingrates but you don't want any body else to. They were trying to confront terrorism and muslims didn't like it so they react with more terrorism. That doesn't make sense, it was an immature, stupid and hypocritical reaction. I don't know if I can respect islam after this.

to be honest, if you believe in areligion then you're not fit to rule a country. Whether christian, muslim, hindu or whatever. To me, christianity and muslim are exactly the same. Apart from, Muslim's more strict and 500 years younger.

Originally posted by PVS
i disagree

remember when they had the miss universe and the announcer made some off the cuff reference to mohammed and how he'd like to bang the contestants? they went apeshit. not to this magnitude, but certainly not a simple round of pissing and moaning either. i just think it was highly irresponsible given reactions in the past and especially given the already volitale atmosphere over there. like throwing napalm on the fire.

They didn't like the way they were depicted so they acted that way. To me it didn't make much sense and they made it mre likely that there will be more cartoons.. This was one that wasn't published and it was probably made after these riots started.

This was one that wasn't published and it was probably made after these riots started
no this one is an old one, and that one was made after a video on how they misused islam too recruit suicide bombers hit the media several years ago

Originally posted by finti
no this one is an old one, and that one was made after a video on how they misused islam too recruit suicide bombers hit the media several years ago
There was a new one that was printed in France where he says it's hard to be loved by fools. That sounds like it was printed in response to the riots. http://feeds.thefrancenews.net/?rid=92f92ef0a101aba4&cat=e597bd109c960ae3&f=1 New French Cartoon with Prophet(SAW) saying - "It's hard to be loved by fools"

uploaded 10 Feb 2006

Muslims enraged by new French cartoon

February 08 2006.

Paris - A French satirical weekly reprinted cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad on Wednesday and published one of its own on its front page, further angering Muslim groups which say the caricatures are blasphemous.

French Muslim organisations tried to prevent the weekly Charlie-Hebdo from reprinting the 12 cartoons, which were first published by the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten, but a court rejected their suit on Tuesday on a technicality.

The weekly's front page carried the new cartoon depicting the Prophet Mohammad burying his face in his hands and saying: "It's hard to be loved by fools".

Inside pages showed the 12 cartoons that were first printed in Denmark and included an editorial explaining the decision to reprint them.
I guess the editor decided just to be fair he ought to offend the jews too so he published the holocaust denial pictures. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/02/after-offending-muslims-charlie-hebdo.html
Charlie Hebdo, a weekly French rag, is going to follow up on their wildly successful weekly edition by publishing Iranian-sponsored lampoons of the Holocaust in their next edition.

The French Paper Charlie-Hebdo bears the headline "Mohammed stressed out by the fundamentalists" and a cartoon of the prophet in tears uttering the words "It's hard to be loved by fools." (Today)

The New York Times says that the battle for freedom of speech in Europe is far from over:

The weekly, Charlie Hebdo, published the Danish cartoons on Wednesday, together with one it had commissioned for its cover showing the Prophet Muhammad muttering, "It's hard to be loved by morons."

Mr. Chirac, at his weekly meeting with government ministers, called the move a provocation, saying, "Freedom of expression must be exercised in a spirit of responsibility," according to a government spokesman. "I condemn all manifest provocation that might dangerously fan passions," Mr. Chirac said.

The latest incident suggested that the storm over freedom of expression and religious taboos is not likely to abate.

A group of Islamic organizations had tried to stop Charlie Hebdo (the origin of its name is obscure) from selling the current issue, which includes caricatures mocking other religions, but they failed to win an injunction. The weekly said it had sold 400,000 copies, four times the norm.

France has the largest Muslim population in Europe, with nearly one-tenth of its 60 million people coming from Islamic backgrounds. The country's foreign policy has long dealt cautiously, even sympathetically, with the Arab world, and many analysts have said France's opposition to the invasion of Iraq was in part a result of fears that cooperation could lead to a destabilizing backlash at home.

A French daily, France Soir, was the first publication in the country to reprint the Danish cartoons, which were originally printed in September. The newspaper's owner, a French-Egyptian, fired the chief editor the next day. Several French newspapers, including Le Monde, have since printed some cartoons to affirm freedom of expression.
This is a bold move in a country where nearly 45,000 vehicles were torched last year and where crime rates have passed the USA!

It's no wonder Jacques Chirac is voicing his concern.
Only thing is as much anti semetic stuff that is published the jews are probably used to it by now.

Originally posted by Raz
The pictures seem to be created to stir up a reaction, which is exactly what it got.

I personally feel both sides have the right to free speech, and express how they feel.

The imams made sure they got a reaction too. They made three more just for good measure. They blasphemed their own prophet. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/02/danish-imam-who-faked-cartoons-linked.html
Imam Ahmad Abu Laban, the man behind this whole Danish cartoon controversy, not only faked obscene cartoons on his trip to the Middle East, but also:

* Entertained the "Blind Sheikh" behind the first World Trade Center attacks
* Praised Osama Bin Laden after 9-11 Attacks
* Preached he "Shed no tears" after 9-11 Attacks
* Accused of giving Political support to Osama bin Laden's network
* Accused of giving Financial support to Osama bin Laden's network
* Joined with 225 Islamic Radicals to form Global Jihadist Group in 2003
* Said that Theo van Gogh - "Had it coming!"
* Called on his flock to Give Their Lives to Global Jihad for Palestinians
* Met with Sheikh Qaradawi in Saudi Arabia who has legalized the murder of American soldiers in Iraq

Imam Ahmad Abu Laban, the leader of the Islamic Society of Denmark toured the Middle-East to "create awareness" about the 12 cartoons that were published in Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, on September 30, 2005...

As far as most Western news services are concerned, the cartoons pictured above are the ones creating all of the uproar.

However, the truth is that Imam Ahmad Abu Laban, brought at least 3 additional images, which HAD NEVER been published in any media source. They included a cartoon of Muhammad as a pedophile demon, Muhammed with a pig snout, and a praying Muslim being raped by a dog. The drawings in Jyllands-Posten were harmless compared to these:

Evidently, the originals were not offensive enough for the trip!

The spokesman for the Islamic Society of Denmark, Ahmed Akkari, claimed he does not know the origin of the three pictures. He said they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. However, when a reporter asked if it could talk to these Muslims, the spokesman refused to reveal their identity.
Abu Laban, who had previously been unwelcome in several Arab states, toured Egypt with fellow Islamic Society of Denmark representatives and spoke with representatives of the Arab League, Egypt's grand mufti and other high-level officials.
During his tour of the Middle East, Abu Laban also visited Saudi Arabia and Qatar and met with renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yussef Al-Qaradawi.

The spiritual leader of the global Islamic organisation, The Islamic Brotherhood, Qaradawi has his own TV programme on the Arabic channel Al-Jazeera. In a fatwa disseminated as part of his programme, Qaradawi has legalised the murder of American soldiers in Iraq, he supports the death penalty for homosexuality, he supports the right of Muslim men to beat their wives, says that suicide actions are the most exalted aspect of the Jihad for the Sake of Allah, and that women are required to engage in such a jihad side by side with their men.
He ought to be deported.

Don't know if the cartoonist meant to insult or just be funny.
I have seen both tasteless and also funny cartoons about Jesus.
I also have a hunch God has a sence of humor.....just look around.
The Muslems countries have a right to boycott, but I think their overacting. We dont get bent out of shape every time they stomp on and burn our flag, flags also deserve respect. The cartoonist probably werent Muslem, that means they dont follow Muslem law.
I saw one of the cartoons and you gotta admit, it was funny.
A muslem is in heaven, possibly Mohammid, it didn't say, and a long line of dead suicide bombers are walking to heaven, and the guy in heaven is yelling "STOP! STOP! We are out of virgins"
That was really making fun of the terrorest belief's, not Mohammid.

I saw one of the cartoons and you gotta admit, it was funny.
A muslem is in heaven, possibly Mohammid, it didn't say, and a long line of dead suicide bombers are walking to heaven, and the guy in heaven is yelling "STOP! STOP! We are out of virgins"
that was NOT ONE OF THE CARTOONS POSTED in the Danish paper.

Don't know if the cartoonist meant to insult or just be funny
it was more than one, for the 100th time, they are gonna make a childrens book about religions and lacked drawings of mohammed, the paper held a contest where people could draw mohammed and the winning piece would be used in the book...... The paper showed what they got in and it seemed that all of them (12) was of a satirical character which was not the papers intention at all.......

Originally posted by blackhat
Don't know if the cartoonist meant to insult or just be funny.
I have seen both tasteless and also funny cartoons about Jesus.
I also have a hunch God has a sence of humor.....just look around.
The Muslems countries have a right to boycott, but I think their overacting. We dont get bent out of shape every time they stomp on and burn our flag, flags also deserve respect. The cartoonist probably werent Muslem, that means they dont follow Muslem law.
I saw one of the cartoons and you gotta admit, it was funny.
A muslem is in heaven, possibly Mohammid, it didn't say, and a long line of dead suicide bombers are walking to heaven, and the guy in heaven is yelling "STOP! STOP! We are out of virgins"
That was really making fun of the terrorest belief's, not Mohammid.
I think finti said that was done after a tv show on terrorism was shown a couple of years ago and wasn't in the news paper. I liked the new one where mohammed was crying and had his head in his hands and said it's hard to be loved by fools. That was making fun of their re actions to the cartoons. I agree with this article. http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2006/2/8/8441/20168
We are witnessing a great insult to the name of Muhammed and to the entirety of the religion of Islam. Across the world the name of Muhammed is being degraded and dragged the mud. Muslims around the world need to fight against this degradation of their religion. And it is NOT the Danish who are to blame.

Muslims around the world are responding to an imagined slight with a violent temper tantrum worthy not of adults who are members of one of the world's great religions, but of two year old children who cry, scream and kick at the slightest provocation.
Let me be clear on two points. First, I am by no means saying that Islam is an immature religion or that all Muslims are immature. Nor am I saying that it is good to for a newspaper to intentionally insult one of the world's great religions.

What I am saying is that the very stereotype that two of the Danish cartoons were based on are being displayed in no uncertain terms by the rioting Muslims. The image that the rioting Muslims are projecting is exactly the image that they feel insulted by in those two cartoons.

The reality is this: a Danish newspaper printed some cartoons of Muhammed. Most of those cartoons were perfectly respectful and even sympathetic to Islam. Two of those cartoons were offensive in that they were applying negative stereotypes of Muslims to the prophet Muhammed. These cartoons brought up many issues that are important for all nations to face: the fact that Islam is no more or less legitimate a religion than Christianity, Judaism or any other religion; that Western nations have unfair and stupid stereotypes of Muslims; and that modern Islam has, in some ways been hijacked by some of its most extreme factions. All of these issues are important issues and all of them are portrayed in the Danish cartoons.

I applaud the newspapers that have printed these cartoons because we DO need to face these issues and no crying, screaming, kicking mob should intimidate us into ignoring them. Perhaps the two offensive cartoons should have been left out, but the reaction of the rioting Muslims may actually show more than ever the need to confront the more extremist factions of Islam. Perhaps those offensive cartoons struck too close to home.

What we are seeing is the name of Muhammed being used by extremist factions within Islam to inspire a massive, religious temper tantrum over imagined slights. These extremists are telling the world that Islam is so immature that it cannot take criticism. These extremists are telling the world that Islam is unable to face the issues raised by these cartoons. These extremists are telling the world that their faith in the word of Muhammed is so weak that the publication of mere cartoons can threaten that faith. They are telling the world that Islam has the mentality of a two-year-old brat.

I have known many Muslims and count some as friends. I have also met many Muslims in Turkey and Israel. All of these Muslims that I have personally met and known have been kind, mature, thinking individuals. They were not immature. They were not unable to take criticism. They were perfectly able to discuss in a rational manner any controversial issue you can imagine. Their faith was not weak, it was strong enough to shrug off stupid insults and move on with life.

The extremist factions of Islam are lying to us. They are degrading the name of Muhammed and insulting Islam. Most Muslims I have known are nothing like those rioting extremists. And yet, in modern times those extremists who have the mentality of a two-year-old brat and who are now rioting because they can't handle controversy are a fairly dominant voice in Islam today. Extremists have in many ways taken over the Muslim world and it is up to moderates to stand up to them.

This alone is worrisome: that one of the world's top religions is dominated by extremists. But then we are also seeing extremists like Pat Robertson are a major voice within Christianity in America. We are seeing extremists like Netanyahu are a major voice within Israel and within American Judaism. We are seeing extremists dominating the debate around the world.

These extremists of ALL religions spend most of their time ranting over imagined slights, crying over criticism and generally throwing never ending temper tantrums. The temper tantrum of a two-year-old child is unpleasant. The temper tantrums of these extremists are leading to tens of thousands of deaths every year. If our faiths are so weak that the teaching of evolution, an established and robust scientific theory, threatens that faith, we need to search within ourselves for our weaknesses, not deny evolution. If our faiths are so weak that the publishing of cartoons about our faith is so traumatic we have to riot, then we need to search within ourselves for our weaknesses, not burn the flags of the nations where newspapers have printed those cartoons. If our faiths are so weak that we are willing to lie to invade other nations and we call that war based on lies a "crusade" or "jihad," then we are nothing but a bunch of weak, bratty bullies.

Is this what our major religions are all about? Is this really the face of true faith? Riots, invasions, temper tantrums... Is this what our great religious leaders intended our faith to be?

If so, then our faith is worth nothing. The faith of Pat Robertson, of the rioting Muslims, of suicide bombers, of George Bush, of the whole bunch of extremist children is worth nothing. The cartoon of Muhammed with a bomb in his turban is not about Muhammed. Rather it is about the extremist Muslims who are right now rioting. That cartoon is not true of Muhammed or most of his followers, but it is true of those childish, rioting Muslims.

These extremists of all religions are destroying modern civilization. These extremists are a threat to the world. These extremists must be stopped. And it is up to the moderates of each religion to stop the extremists of their own religion. Until moderate Muslims stand up and tell their extremist brethren to shut up and sit down, Islam will be unworthy of Muhammed. Until moderate Christians tell Bush and Robertson to shut up and sit down, Christianity in America will not be worthy of Jesus Christ. Violent crusades and jihads are stupidity. It is time for moderate, rational people to stop listening to anyone who calls for a violent crusade or jihad.

Originally posted by markie
So you act like fundamentalist ingrates because somebody printed some cartoons. You are portraying yourselves like fundamentalist ingrates but you don't want any body else to. They were trying to confront terrorism and muslims didn't like it so they react with more terrorism. That doesn't make sense, it was an immature, stupid and hypocritical reaction. I don't know if I can respect islam after this.

if they were just "some" cartoons u wudn't b seein such riots.every1 has a rite to defend his faith.the americans believe in protectin their country , v blieve in protectin our faith as it is dear to us just like america is dear to americans n don't tell me that they don't cross the limits in defendin their country.the wars just prove it.

who is causin the muslims to act like this ,they r.they want such reactions to prove that they r rite.they r workin on the agenda of, wat Mahatir Muhammad ,the frmer Malaysian president (or watevr) described as ,n how well he did, "provoke n punish"

who is causin all this terrorism?who is the root to alll these problems...america is n their greed to stay at the top.they wage war against every country that disagrees with watever they say.their own acts r arousin anti-muslim sentiments n btw markie, r u not an Islamophobic?

clearly shows

They were only cartoons....only cartoons...

Originally posted by debbiejo
They were only cartoons....only cartoons...

What would happen if we really insulted them?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What would happen if we really insulted them?
Well, Christians there are put to death...Muslims that change their faith are put to death.......

Probably something like death......I think they just like the death thing a lot.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, Christians there are put to death...Muslims that change their faith are put to death.......

Probably something like death......I think they just like the death thing a lot.

So right now they want to kill us, so how could it get worse? 😱

True, we might as well just print out flyers of jokes and drop them from planes.....

Originally posted by maham
if they were just "some" cartoons u wudn't b seein such riots.every1 has a rite to defend his faith.the americans believe in protectin their country , v blieve in protectin our faith as it is dear to us just like america is dear to americans n don't tell me that they don't cross the limits in defendin their country.the wars just prove it.

who is causin the muslims to act like this ,they r.they want such reactions to prove that they r rite.they r workin on the agenda of, wat Mahatir Muhammad ,the frmer Malaysian president (or watevr) described as ,n how well he did, "provoke n punish"

who is causin all this terrorism?who is the root to alll these problems...america is n their greed to stay at the top.they wage war against every country that disagrees with watever they say.their own acts r arousin anti-muslim sentiments n btw markie, r u not an Islamophobic?

clearly shows

I don't think I'm islamaphobic I just don't want to be a muslim and I don't believe that muslims are as mistreated as they claim. I think muslims are treated pretty good in the west and islam is not as disrespected as they are saying. Most muslims are not terrorists but there are muslim extremists and I think that's what the offensive pictures that the danish artists drew were confronting.
The new french picture of mohammed with his head in his hands saying it's hard to be loved by fools is indicating that they think the re action to the original cartoons was stupid and I can't say I disagree with that conclusion. I think those cartoons were more about confronting terrorism than about freedom of speech.
I was reminded of the saying "if the shoe fits wear it". I guess they wanted to be fair so they printed the holocaust pictures and then the french muslims protested that too. They thought we offended the muslims now we'll offend the jews. I guess they offended the muslims and the jews.

Originally posted by debbiejo
True, we might as well just print out flyers of jokes and drop them from planes.....
It reminds me of that book based on the song Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie where that guy was at the psychiatrists office and he started jumping around and saying I want to kill, I want to kill, I want to kill. Then the psychiatrist started jumping around saying I want to kill.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, Christians there are put to death...Muslims that change their faith are put to death.......

Probably something like death......I think they just like the death thing a lot.

Reminds me of this song from I guess the 60's or 70's where You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant http://www.arlo.net/lyrics/alices.shtml
You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant
Walk right in it's around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track
You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

Originally posted by debbiejo
True, we might as well just print out flyers of jokes and drop them from planes.....
They were mad at us anyway and this was just the straw that broke the camels back. I never believed it was just about pictures that wouldn't make sense. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002791369_cartoonban08.html
In fact, books are sold in Egypt, Syria and other Muslim countries that are critical of Muhammad, but these don't spark protests, El Fadl said. Perhaps that is because the cartoons are seen by Muslims as the latest in a long line of Western crimes against them, he said. As examples, he cited colonization and the ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslims as well as more recent images of the U.S. invasion of Iraq and perceived western Islamophobia.

"These disparaging drawings were like the straw that broke the camel's back," said El Fadl.

if they were just "some" cartoons u wudn't b seein such riots.every1 has a rite to defend his faith
they were just some cartoons
every1 has a rite to defend his faith.
well they could defended their religion with words, the respond of violence and threats just emphasized upon what one of the cartoon displayed

who is causin all this terrorism?who is the root to alll these problems...america is n their greed to stay at the top.
dont blame others for wrong doings of islamists, they target anyone who says and think differently than they do

r u not an Islamophobic?
I am!!!!!!, but Im christianphobic judaphopic or to sum it up Im a pure religionphobic.
I dont need others to tell me what to believe I believe what I think is right and no iman,priest, pope, religious political nuthous leaders are gonna tell me otherwise. No country should be ruled by religious laws, but through democratic laws of a nation legislation and.......... to this religious laws and books and ideas should stay the f*uck away.