Originally posted by mahamI wouldn't but then I didn't draw them. Aparently it wouldn't matter if they drew him in a respectable way because sunni islam forbids it and muslims think we should obey that rule too. They only wanted to illustrate a book. I think that's a ridiculous rule but it's your religion. I do think they could have drawn more respectable pictures though.
as if v made any cartoons on their Prophet.v blive in Jesus n Moses n all other Prophets n respect them with all our hearts if christians or jews do anythin wrong v wudn't blame their Prophet fr it,wud v?
Read my posts on the general discussion forum. I am against the war in Iraq and the war on terror. I am antibush, antiglobalization, and my socioeconomic views are a mix of social democracy and mutualism. I think the fault of most of todays conflicts lies solely with leadership. This includes Christian zealots and straussian fascists in the US, JDL sympathizers in israel, morons with bombs in russia, china, and north korea, and autocrats, fundamentalist zealots, and gangsters in the middle east who do everything possible to keep their own people as illiterate and ill-informed as possible so that the few who can actually teach the koran can justify anything using Islam more as a weapon of political conquest than as a doctrine of faith. But war, both cold and hot stimulates economies and keeps governments from dealing with real problems which is why no US intervention will ever catch Bin Laden, topple the hated Saudis, create real peace in israel or palestine or solve any of the oth problems leading to war.
Oil is one of the primary goals but it saying it's the main one is an oversimplefication. If oil were the single goal of war in the middle east, the US would have attacked Tajikistan which is believed to be sitting on the biggest untapped oil reserve in the history of the world. The main goal of the Iraq war is the same kind of political experimentation and privitization that lead to Augusto Pinochete controlling Chile with an iron fist under the supervision of a bunch of libertarian psychotics at the university of Chicago.
Bottom line, the world os ****ed up cause of leaders, not people. But if you choose to buy into all the shit they're feeding you and want to kill someone, kill yourself first and save someone else a lot of grief.
Re: Insults to muslims or freedom of speech?
Originally posted by The Omega
Recently a large Danish newspaper (Jyllandsposten =The Jutland Post) published a series of drawings of the muslim prophet Muhammed.You can see some of them here http://www.uriasposten.net/index.php?p=2624
and here http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/baggrund/article.php?id=3293352These satirical drawings was a reaction to the fact, that no Danish artist wanted to illustrate a childrens book about Muhammeds life
Yeah, they basically are afraid to, from what I've heard.
According to Islam you may not make images of the prophet - so since Jyllandsposten decided to do so regardless, not only Danish but now also muslims from the rest of the world have reacted with dismay.This is their perogative, if anyone offended Christian religious symbols or national symbols we'd see dismay and outcries as well.
I disagree. It's ridiculous to demand that another country that is religiously and politically free respect your every religious command because "you might be offended". This is appeal to fear of opinion, and the Danish government had long ago given freedom of speech rights to the newspapers. They shouldn't have to apologize. If they do, then the Danish government should apologize to anyone and everyone who's ever felt slighted by an article or cartoon by the Danish newspapers. And when they get done with that in 2076.... You get the point. I don't see any reason to play favortism and try and appease Muslims; especially since the majority of the places and people demanding an apology wouldn't know the first thing about political freedom of speech.
And if people blaspheme national or religious symbols of Christianity, embassies don't burn and people don't feel afraid for their lives. How many people died at the unveiling of Piss Christ?
The newspaper insisted, that the drawings were published as "a reaction to self-censorship, restrictions on freedom of speech, and injustice and murder on critics of islam, such as has happened in Holland."
Probably. They are arguably in bad taste, too. But should there be worldwide trauma over a cartoon? Should I hate on Charlie Brown because the prematurely bald white kid with the oversized dome can't kick a football? There is such a thing as taking one's self too seriously.
Now Jyllandsposten is not the most liberal and tolerant of newspapers to say the least. It's full name is Morgenavisen Jyllandsposten (The Morning Paper The Jutland Post), which we often call Morgenfacisten Jyllandspesten (The morning fascist The Jutland Plague).
So their motivations might just as well have been to stir up intolerance between the muslim community in Denmark and "native" Danes.
Hm. I won't comment on this. You likely know this a lot better than I am. Also, if most of these points have been addressed and I'm babbling, just ignore me. I skipped 99% of the replies prior to mine because I'm impatient.
Things seemed to quiet down during the fall, until a religious party from Pakistan interferred and put out a reward on the heads of the artists.
Yeah, that's always messy. Bernie Mac made a joke on white people, so I sent a hitman after him too. Some people just need to learn their lessons the hard way.
I'm glad religious groups aren't all about murder and taking themselves way too seriously.
/sarcasm
Now many Middle Eastern countries are boycotting Danish goods, and I am trying to figure out if this is truly a religious or a politically motivated reaction.
Interesting observation on that. Probably both. Religion is always used as a motivational tool for a hidden agenda.
The newspaper has NOW apologized...
What are your thoughts on this?
They were forced to apologize under severe pressure. How Muslims can be happy with a forced apology is beyond me, but the newspaper shouldn't have apologized to them and them alone. See my above points. If you're going to make a newspaper that has freedom of speech apologize to the Muslim religious group, have them apologize to anyone and everyone they've ever slighted. and that should take all year.
Me? The west has boycotted many countries and regimes in the past over political issues. So Middle Eastern countries are in their right to boycott Danish goods. Should the paper have abstained from insulting muslims in the first place, since it seems to be their whole intend to begin with.
Should the Danish Prime Minister apologize?
I think the cartoons were in bad taste. Worth the fuss? No. That's ridiculous. The paper shouldn't have apologized and the prime minister shouldn't apologize. Muslims aren't the only people in the world slighted. They need to realize that and not expect special treatment.
nobody's expectin any special treatment (esp. frm u ).if u don't hav the guts to defend ur faith then it's ur prob. if u don't believe in Him (the Holy Prophet (pbuh)) then just leave it.if it takes years fr them to apologize then thats their prob.papers r not fr insultin ppl,u kno but to inform ppl abt the truth!
Re: Re: Insults to muslims or freedom of speech?
Originally posted by WeskerI think the paper just said sorry that we offended you and explained that they didn't mean to but I don't expect they hope they won't give in. At least not until Saudi Arabia apologizes for treating christians like they do and makes it legal to own a bible. They don't let chrristian prostelize over there if we made it illegal for muslims to do that we would be accused of islamophobia. I think muslims cause islamophobia and then blame us for being islamophobic.
Yeah, they basically are afraid to, from what I've heard.I disagree. It's ridiculous to demand that another country that is religiously and politically free respect your every religious command because "you might be offended". This is appeal to fear of opinion, and the Danish government had long ago given freedom of speech rights to the newspapers. They shouldn't have to apologize. If they do, then the Danish government should apologize to anyone and everyone who's ever felt slighted by an article or cartoon by the Danish newspapers. And when they get done with that in 2076.... You get the point. I don't see any reason to play favortism and try and appease Muslims; especially since the majority of the places and people demanding an apology wouldn't know the first thing about political freedom of speech.
And if people blaspheme national or religious symbols of Christianity, embassies don't burn and people don't feel afraid for their lives. How many people died at the unveiling of Piss Christ?
Probably. They are arguably in bad taste, too. But should there be worldwide trauma over a cartoon? Should I hate on Charlie Brown because the prematurely bald white kid with the oversized dome can't kick a football? There is such a thing as taking one's self too seriously.
Hm. I won't comment on this. You likely know this a lot better than I am. Also, if most of these points have been addressed and I'm babbling, just ignore me. I skipped 99% of the replies prior to mine because I'm impatient.
Yeah, that's always messy. Bernie Mac made a joke on white people, so I sent a hitman after him too. Some people just need to learn their lessons the hard way.
I'm glad religious groups aren't all about murder and taking themselves way too seriously.
/sarcasm
Interesting observation on that. Probably both. Religion is always used as a motivational tool for a hidden agenda.
They were forced to apologize under severe pressure. How Muslims can be happy with a forced apology is beyond me, but the newspaper shouldn't have apologized to them and them alone. See my above points. If you're going to make a newspaper that has freedom of speech apologize to the Muslim religious group, have them apologize to anyone and everyone they've ever slighted. and that should take all year.
Originally posted by mahamI guess you haven't seen the Arabian newspapers lately? http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/arabprtoc.html
nobody's expectin any special treatment (esp. frm u ).if u don't hav the guts to defend ur faith then it's ur prob. if u don't believe in Him (the Holy Prophet (pbuh)) then just leave it.if it takes years fr them to apologize then thats their prob.papers r not fr insultin ppl,u kno but to inform ppl abt the truth!
Originally posted by markie
I guess you haven't seen the Arabian newspapers lately? http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/arabprtoc.html
Anti-Semitism in the Arab Press.
Anti-Semitic Cartoons in the Arab Media - 2001
Anti-Semitism in the Syrian Media
Holocaust Denial in the Syrian Media
Anti-Semitism in the Official Egyptian Press
Anti-Semitic Egyptian Cartoons
Spring 1998-Spring 1999 Update
Blood Libel in Saudi Daily
Expressions of Anti-Semitism in the Arab Press
Do you think the arabs should apologize to the jews?
Here, here. Glad to see that someone else caught that too.
Originally posted by mahamBecause of the muslims litle temper tantrum germany is thinking about baning the quran but before muslims get mad they should talk to the arabian government about legalizing the bible in their country. http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/010551.php A broad alliance of grass-roots movements have gone to the prosecutors of several states to hinder the dissemination of the Quran. According to the indictment, the Quran is not just a religious and historic book, but also a political book, which is incompatible with the constiution.
nobody's expectin any special treatment (esp. frm u ).if u don't hav the guts to defend ur faith then it's ur prob. if u don't believe in Him (the Holy Prophet (pbuh)) then just leave it.if it takes years fr them to apologize then thats their prob.papers r not fr insultin ppl,u kno but to inform ppl abt the truth!
The accuser is “Bundesverband der Bürgerbewegungen (BVB)”, which concerns itself with, in its own words, “defending basic rights and freedoms” against Islam. The extensive international furore, allegedly caused by the Muhammed cartoons, has made clear the relevancy of the alliance. Its homepage is decorated with a Danish flag with the words “Support Denmark! Defend the Free World.” superimposed on it.
The indictment has been filed in several states, including Hamburg, Niedersachsen, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Bayern and probably more.
In several talkshows on German TV, conservative politicians have pointed out that the Quran is incompatible with the German constitution. The Turkish-born writer Serap Cileli said on January 29 this year that “the Quran must be considered a historic document. It is not compatible with our constitution and Human Rights.”
Now the alliance wants the matter tried at the courts.
Potent Political Book
The author of the indictment in Hamburg, Jutta Starke, says that the Quran was reported to the police two or three years ago, but that the report was dismissed on the grounds that it was a book of only historical interest.
“The events of the last months have made clear that the Quran isn’t just a historical book, but very much a potent political book, a thing which we document extensively in the indictment,” Jutta Starke says.
She says it is a task of sisyphean dimensions to inform the media, politicians and churches of the true intentions of Islam in the enlightened world of the West.
“We are grateful to Jyllands-Posten that discussions about Islam have now become possible,” says Jutta Starke....
If Arabia can ban the bible muslims shouldn't complain if germany outlaws the koran.
Here's another thought, why don't those rioters take that energy and use it to topple their own governments that are keeping them in poverty and illeteracy? Why not wipe the saudi royal family and every other greedy autocrat off the face of the earth and create governments of the people, by the people, for the people by the same painful trial and error as every other country till you get it right. By murdering people and burning embassies, you really are no different than the rioters in LA who were specifically lead by the LAPD to destroy their own neighborhoods and only stopped when they reached upper class homes.