Ultimate Colossus vs Ultimate Hulk

Started by wannabe7 pages

Originally posted by Warmonger
Btu if you discount that then it logically follows that you discount Ult Cap even scratching him cause Hulk survived a REAL nuke.
Actually...YES!!!

A character who can be scratched by Cap should be completely incinerated, disintegrated, erased from existence by a real nuke. There wouldn't even be anything left that could try to regenerate.
I never read the issue in which Hulk and Cap fought or the one in which Hulk survived a nuke, so i'll have to take your word for it. But Cap scratching Hulk sounds like a plot device to make the fight a little more interesting, just like creating a completely stupid and pseudo-scientifically reasoned weakness for Colossus, to make Falcon the winner in an otherwise hopelessly unfair fight.

the train situation of course is brute strength, but the fight with Thor has to include some kind of fighting skills. According to Marvel Thor has a 6 in strength, and a 4 in fighting skills. Colossus fought Thor for 10 Min's, and during the whole fight was not damaged once. This means that Colossus straight needs to be upgraded to a 7 or his fighting skills need to be upgraded to a 4 or 5.

Hulk has to have a healing factor, because if he didn't a nuke would just incinerator him for he is still flesh, and bones.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
Where have you been during the Ultimate comics? Ultimate Colossus in 95-100 ton range lol, he lifted a 7000 ton sub full of water, and humans from the bottom of the ocean, and carried it to shore. He overcame 35,000 tons of force from magneto's grip, and stoped a speeding train dead in its tracks.

95-100 tons lol thats funny

Unless you can prove that it truly was 35,000 ton force, it wasn't.

Originally posted by nwg202
How can the scarlet witch survive a shot from havoc? A shot that knocked colossus out and shredded iron man and black widow's armor?

Probability altering powers.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Unless you can prove that it truly was 35,000 ton force, it wasn't.
Even though you are right, you're also picking a small (admittedly non proven) detail out of a argumentation which is pretty correct and convincing, even though the detail might be wrong.

I don't want to accuse you specifically DC, but that is done pretty often in this forum: taking an exaggerated detail (which most often doesn't even need an exaggeration, like in this case) out of a good argumentation, to make the whole argumentation SEEM wrong, even though the rest is actually right.
Nowhere it is stated, that Colossus overcame Magneto causing a force of about 35.000 tons on him, right.
YET the feat itself still perfectly supports soujaboy09's point of view even without proclaiming it was 35.000 tons, and the rest of his examples for Colossus's strength are also still valid.

Originally posted by wannabe
Even though you are right, you're also picking a small (admittedly non proven) detail out of a argumentation which is pretty correct and convincing, even though the detail might be wrong.

I don't want to accuse you specifically DC, but that is done pretty often in this forum: taking an exaggerated detail (which most often doesn't even need an exaggeration, like in this case) out of a good argumentation, to make the whole argumentation SEEM wrong, even though the rest is actually right.
Nowhere it is stated, that Colossus overcame Magneto causing a force of about 35.000 tons on him, right.
YET the feat itself still perfectly supports soujaboy09's point of view even without proclaiming it was 35.000 tons, and the rest of his examples for Colossus's strength are also still valid.

The problem is that this has been discussed before and Soulja agreed that there was no way to really verify that the force itself was 35,000. Then to come here an post it again is kind of obfuscating.

I always said that in the Marvel directory that 616 Magneto could lift 35,000 tons with his powers, and it hasn't been stated that Ultimate Magneto is any diffren't than his 616 counterpart.

Sorry Warmonger, but Ive always said that Ultimate Magneto, and 616 Magneto had the same powers, and were at the same strength.

Here source Answers.com

Ultimate Marvel
In the reality of Earth-1610, Magneto, a.k.a. Erik Lensherr, stays essentially the same. He is a Holocaust survivor, the leader of the Brotherhood of Mutants and a ruthless terrorist who gloats over dead bodies to achieve his dream of mutant supremacy(Ultimate X-Men #1). Additionally, he was the one to cripple Professor X. This version of Magneto is arguably darker and more cynical than the mainstream version. His commands a noticeably larger Brotherhood than his mainstream version, and has displayed enough power to defeat the Ultimates. Magneto was imprisoned following the events of "Return of the King", the sixth arc in the series. He was then unseen until "Magnetic North", the 12th arc and the final run for writer Brian K. Vaughan. Magneto was found to have hatched a scheme to escape, utilizing the willing cooperation of Forge and Mystique, as well as the unwilling (but amicable) aid of Longshot's mutation for luck. Magneto escaped by the end of the arc, leaving Mystique in his cell with Polaris to impersonate him. He and Longshot then exit the Triskelion unharassed, and Magneto makes it clear to Longshot that he has something different planned than any of his more typical world-domination schemes.

Originally posted by Murda Mase
So then He's gotta be as strong as 616 Hulk....

616 hulk is stronger then 100 ton

616 starts at around 75 through 100 ton range it grows as he gets angrier.

So whats the diffrence between Ultimate Magneto, and Ultimate Magneto?

Originally posted by soujaboy09
So whats the diffrence between Ultimate Magneto, and Ultimate Magneto?
Uhh... Nothing... 😕

Okl Souja, so what is your opinion on the accuracy/worth of handbooks?

Originally posted by Warmonger
Okl Souja, so what is your opinion on the accuracy/worth of handbooks?

.....

Originally posted by soujaboy09
I hate the handbooks

whats your point?

All I said was that Ultimate Magneto, and 616 Magneto were the same which they appear to be.

I've never read the handbook, but from what ive heard, and the scans Ive seen they look to be off. It seems that the people who write the handbooks dont take time to read the comics.

Where in any comic book does it say that Magneto is exerting 35,000 tons or pounds of pressure on Colossus?

You know waht I realize that I am arguing but haven't even so much as stated a positition. So here is my opinion.

I think that Ult. Hulk doesn't have enough appearances to take an average of really, but if I had to take a pick I would go with Ult Colossus. 8/10

Strentgh: Honeslty I can't tell Hulk's strentgh seems to ramp up pretty fast though and if he can keep getting stronger then I assuem he eventually takes this category.

Fighting skills: Not a factor Neither one has shown definitive fighting ability. Though Colossus seems more disciplined the fact that he is much stronger than the majority of his opponents make it hard to guess. The Hulk seems to be sloppy fighter though.

Speed: I am of the opinion that the Hulk seems to move faster than Colossus as he seems to be almost a flurry of activiity but I think that it has more to do with his greater savagery than any truely faster battle speed. But the Hulk's mobility is much greater than colossuss's. Not that it will really make a difference cause...

Durability: Colossus definetly takes the cake here. True the Hulk survived full nuclear blast but I count actual feats in combat heavier. so while I can say that Cap hitting him is BS it is still there and lowers the average of his showings. Also the Hulk seems to take damage from attacks that Colossu has always been able to shrug off. Also contary to some information the Hulk hasn't displayed any healing factor in the comics I saw him in. Banner still had the injuries that the Hulk had gotten. Also we haven't really seen the limits of Colossuss metla form to Physical trauma so we can't even be sure that Hulk can hurt him.

All in all Colossus seems able to match strength witht he Hulk but appears to be much tougher.

In the comics it doesn't, butI thibk in the Marvel directory it states that he can lift things up to 35,000 tons. I could be wrong though. Even so it was an impressive feat none the less.

Here source Marvel Directory

Strength Level: Magneto can use his magnetic powers to increase his physical strength up through Class 100 (the ability to lift over 100 tons).

Known Superhuman Powers: Magneto is a mutant with the superhuman power to control magnetism. He can shape and manipulate magnetic fields that exist naturally or artificially. It is unclear, however, whether he must draw magnetic force from outside himself (if so, then he can do so over vast distances), or whether he can also generate magnetic force from within himself. Nor is it clear whether Magneto's power is psionic or purely physiological in nature.

Although Magneto's power is not on the level of the Silver Surfer in his prime, it is for all practical purposes limitless. Even before his rejuvenation, Magneto once liEed a cargo freighter weighing 30,000 tons 50 feet into the air from a distance of 300 feet away. Moreover, Magneto can use his magnetic powers in more than one way simultaneously. He can completely assemble a complicated machine within seconds through his powers. He can erec! magnetic force fields with a high degree of impenetrability around himself for protection. Although Magneto often gestures when using his magnetic powers, he can utilize them fully even when standing totally still merely by concentrating.

Although Magneto's primary power is magnetism, he seems to have some ability to project or manipulate any form of energy that is related to magnetism. In the past he has fired a bolt of electricity, he has also created enough intense heat to destroy a metal door. Heat, or infrared radiation, is part of the electromagnetic spectrum, which also includes visible light, radio waves, ultraviolet light, gamma-rays, and x-rays. Magneto may be able to project any of these. He has also been shown creating an anti-gravity field, and presumably does so whenever he levitates a non-magnetic object. Hence, Magneto may be living proof of the longsought Unified Field Theory that all forms of energy are related. However, Magneto almost always uses only magnetism, so perhaps it is more difficult for him to manipulate other forms of energy.

In previous years Magneto has apparently exhibited powers of astral projection and telepathy, and has claimed to be able to control the minds of others. His abilities along these lines are minimal, however-enough, perhaps, to protect himself against mightier telepaths, but not of great use otherwise.

Magneto's ability to wield his superhuman powers effectively is dependent upon his physical condition. When severely injured, his body is unable to withstand the strain of manipulating groat amounts of magnetic forces.

Abilities: Magneto is an expert on genetic manipulation and engineering, with knowledge far beyond that of contemporary science. He may be a genius in these fields. He can mutate humans in order to give them superhuman powers, or create adult clones of human beings and then manipulate the genetic structure of these clones during their development (see Savage Land Mutates). From Maelstrom's records and equipment he has learned how to create artificial living beings.

Magneto has mastered many technological fields as well: for example, he has designed magnetically-powered skycraft and spacecraft, complex robots and computers, and magnetically-powered generators.

Magneto has only a rudimentary knowledge of hand-to-hand combat.

Weapons: Magneto relies primarily on his own natural powers, although sometimes he has used magnetically-powered devices of his own design, such as his machine for inducing earthquakes and volcanic eruptions from afar. Magneto used to use mechanical devices for magnifying his own powers, but since his rejuvenation he no longer needs them

Originally posted by soujaboy09
In the comics it doesn't, butI thibk in the Marvel directory it states that he can lift things up to 35,000 tons. I could be wrong though. Even so it was an impressive feat none the less.

I know its impressive. The point being that you don't really have anyway of knowing how much pressure Magneto was applying or even how much Magneto COULD apply. There is no way to know that he is being held down with 35,000 tons.

I don't like when an unqualified number is listed because if you let it slide long enough pretty soon people are going to go around saying that Colossus is a 35,000 ton character.