Well, just to disabuse you of that notion, AC...
You come across in this debate as an ignorant lightweight pissing in the wind.
Lil is looking just fine. I'm not sure where that comment about American racism studies came from, but other than that she has solid grounds for what she claims, which is more than anything you have said has.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's fine, I never disputed that you could sympathise with those who have suffered racism. If you have, that's truly not good and I sympathise with you.The point is, you can't know what it's like to be a black person on the receiving end of racism, or be a black person in general.
So then you can simply relate to being marginalised. We established this.
Wherein did you deduce that you had a much bigger right to speak on black people suffering racism, than me then? Being in a minority doesn't work, because you are only one minority, you're not *Insert your minority* and also black, and also asian. You know what it's like to be a single marginalised minority. You can only ever say "I know what it's like to be marginalised." Not "I know what it's like to be marginalised as a black person."
I've experienced racial slurring, a great many times. I can relate to what it's like to be called racist names. Just like you can relate to a black person being called racist names.
Can I relate to what it's being a female of your ethnicity, being marginalised? No. No more than you can relate to a black person suffering it.
-AC
I never said that I identify with black people and the way they are marganalised - i empathise because i know what it is like to be discriminated.
Like I said, i cant know how it is being black in white society - I never (to my knowledge) claimed otherwise.
In fact it would be weird of me to claim that, since I only just told PVS that he cant claim what he has.
If you point me to where I said I identify with being black in america, perhaps i have worded it wrong, or you have missunderstood
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Must be said, AC, it's a bit bloody rich you trying to compare you being called the odd racist name with being part of a generally attacked minority.
First post to me and already you're making a royal hash of it.
I said I can relate to being called racist names, not to what it's like being a minority. Next time, read.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Frankly, yes, Lil has far more of a right to speak intelligently on the subject than you. You have never been part of a marginalised group. She has, and she has studied it, and before you spew out more garbage aboput that counting for nothing- don't bother. Academic study has real value, those who try and decry it are either jealous or stupid.
She's been part of a marginalised group, that being her race. Correct? Exactly.
I never said I can relate to being her minority, her race, and experiencing her personal troubles, and I feel bad that she had to go through that.
Fact is, she can't relate to what it's exactly like in another minority, what it's like to be that minority, just because she is in one.
It doesn't work that way.
-AC
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Why?
So I could prove something to you because you cannot imagine what it is like to be an ethnic minority?I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else anymore. I've been doing that for the past 10 years.
The whole idea of you asking me to tell you how i've been humiliated and marganalised based on where I come from and who my parents are, dissapoints me beyond comprehantion.
If it came from AC I wouldn't be too offended, I heard worse things come from his posts...but you? Come on man...I thought you had a bit more respect for me than that.But whatever...people are like that in real life anyway...
i didnt ask you to prove yourself. i just asked for examples.
were you called names? did people treat you like you were some potential criminal? dirty looks? i didnt ask for specifics.
respect? dont play that card. you threw in a general statement and i asked you to be a bit more specific in it.
but you're offended. well im so sorry. should i be offended by your implication that my life has been of privilege because i'm white, and that everything i ever worked for was futile since it would have just been given to me most likely, and that my education is but a laughable joke before the world, or at least the great u.k.? or do i not have the right to be offended, being white and all?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You do if you wish to be taken seriously, this is a debate. So full of stats, yet when it comes to the crunch, no books to help you are there?Did it not occur to you that people might lose respect for you, like I did (because I did respect your "intelligence" once), when they discover you are a hypocritical, contradictory trivialiser who can't back it up beyond a certain point?
Did you ever think that it might actually be you, who is the catalyst for this loss or respect?
-AC
You ''respect'' people who agree with you - as long as they agree, no matter how dumb or ridiculous their ideas are, you'll have respect.
We've all seen it before.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
'Racial slurs - of course. I have too. Coming from Asian people for most part...but as ''white people'' we are majority and it doesnt (although it should) have the same impact.
I'm sure you just spoke for me there, but I'll skip over it.
I can't relate to being whatever race you are and marginalised. Fact. I will never attempt to claim I have experienced racism to the degree you have. What I'm saying is, being A minority doesn't mean you know what it's like for EVERY minority, outside of the one commonality that is marginalisation.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I never said that I identify with black people and the way they are marganalised - i empathise because i know what it is like to be discriminated.
There we go. You relate to being discriminated, and that's fine. I never said you can't. I said that you can't assume you know more what it's like to be a black man receiving racism than I do, you're not one. I'm not.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Like I said, i cant know how it is being black in white society - I never (to my knowledge) claimed otherwise.
You acted as if you know more of what it's like to be a black American than PVS, or myself, purely because you come from a minority.
No, you don't. You can just relate, a little better, to marginalisation.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If you point me to where I said I identify with being black in america, perhaps i have worded it wrong, or you have missunderstood
Give me a minute.
-AC
I did read, AC. And I got the tone of what you said entirely. Lil laid out a list of her experience as giving her more right to speak than you. Part of your riposte was you say8ng you had been called racist names. That's irrelevant shit.
---
"I've experienced racial slurring, a great many times. I can relate to what it's like to be called racist names. Just like you can relate to a black person being called racist names.
Can I relate to what it's being a female of your ethnicity, being marginalised? No. No more than you can relate to a black person suffering it."
---
That whole part of your post? Waste of time. You being called the odd racist name means bugger all. But Lil being part of a marginalised group DOES give her insight into this area.
You are the one making a hash, AC- of every single post you make. Worst thing is, you THINK you are smart or insightful. But you are not. All your posts betray you as being nothing more than you are- a loud mouthed child, thinking he can compare with those who actually have weight behind what they say.
She can relate better than you can. End of story.
Originally posted by PVS
i didnt ask you to prove yourself. i just asked for examples.
were you called names? did people treat you like you were some potential criminal? dirty looks? i didnt ask for specifics.respect? dont play that card. you threw in a general statement and i asked you to be a bit more specific in it.
but you're offended. well im so sorry. should i be offended by your implication that my life has been of privilege because i'm white, and that everything i ever worked for was futile since it would have just been given to me most likely, and that my education is but a laughable joke before the world, or at least the great u.k.? or do i not have the right to be offended, being white and all?
If thats the best you can do, then I think we should stop discussion right here.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You ''respect'' people who agree with you - as long as they agree, no matter how dumb or ridiculous their ideas are, you'll have respect.We've all seen it before.
And the amount of people who have fed me that trash after I've made their debates look like paper, is almost as common.
I respect PVS in a way, I respect KharmaDog, I respect Capt_Fantastic, I respect Bardock, I respect many people on here who I've had mass disagreements with.
The first two don't even like me that much, or at least they didn't. So why you're trying to palm it off on that tired excuse is beyond me. You just refuse to accept that someone you don't like has caught you out.
If Ush was saying to you what I am, you'd say jack in return.
-AC
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And PVS- yeah, you are privileged for being born white. You simply are.
because you said so ush? thanks.
Originally posted by Blue nocturne
How can someone be privileged to be white, if PVS was poor,unhappy and sick and I was rich, happy,and healthy would he be privileged to be white?
apparently it doesnt matter
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I did read, AC. And I got the tone of what you said entirely. Lil laid out a list of her experience as giving her more right to speak than you. Part of your riposte was you say8ng you had been called racist names. That's irrelevant shit.
Tone? In text? You got no tone, you read it in a tone and ran with it, is what you did.
No it wasn't. Part of my reply was me saying that I could relate to someone being called racist names, because I have been. Did I say I could relate to what it feels like? No I didn't. She can't know what it's like to be a completely different marginalised minority, just because she is one.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That whole part of your post? Waste of time. You being called the odd racist name means bugger all. But Lil being part of a marginalised group DOES give her insight into this area.
It gives her insight and right to be empathetic as to what it's like to be marginalised, personally, within her race.
Not what it's like to be a black American sufferer of it. Or any other race, anymore than me or you.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
You are the one making a hash, AC- of every single post you make. Worst thing is, you THINK you are smart or insightful. But you are not. All your possts betray you as being nothing more than you are- a loud mouthed child, thinking he can compare with those who actually have weight behind what they say.
Oh, well while we're on the subject of how our posts portray us:
People can b*tch about my attitude all they want, but on the forums you have all the charisma of a piece of dry wall, trying to hang on to the hayday when people here were afraid of your ability to post essays worth of grey, pretty drivel and scare people into not replying. Unlike now, when there are multiple people here who have decided not to let you do that anymore, and you get pushed out of threads way more currently, by people way more smarter than you.
All your posts portray you as nothing more than the stereotypical school headmaster who has nothing better to do than crack a whip and keep idiots inline and make himself feel "intelligent" about it.
Morrissey said it best. "Sir leads the troops, jealous of youth, same old suit since 1962".
Originally posted by Ushgarak
She can relate better than you can. End of story.
To being marginalised, not to being a black American.
-AC