Originally posted by Fishy
I have no idea Do we have any real prove of Ragnos his power? We know he was more powerful then all Sith of his era including Sadow and Kressh but how much? I have my doubts on the winner here, simply because I can not even begin to guess how powerful Ragnos trully was.
That may not be 100% true. He may have been a really good leader. Or they could have just really respected him but there is not enough evidence to say that he is the greatest force user alive.
But it is logical to say that the Ancient Sith had no equals after them, and those same ancient Sith feared and respected Ragnos, and never dared to challenged him even on his death bed, so it's safe to say Ragnos was the most powerful of the most powerful which would make him the most powerful force user to have existed..
Originally posted by Numan
That may not be 100% true. He may have been a really good leader. Or they could have just really respected him but there is not enough evidence to say that he is the greatest force user alive.
Are you forgetting who he ruled?
He ruled a Race of Sith that wanted power above all else, he was hated because he was a half blood... If he was weak he would have been dead, the Sith might respect their leaders but they respect their ideals more and they would have killed Ragnos would they have had the chance.
Originally posted by Numan
That may not be 100% true. He may have been a really good leader. Or they could have just really respected him but there is not enough evidence to say that he is the greatest force user alive.
In Sith society, the strongest ruled, period. He was never defeated, even on his deathbed. He is noted for being so strong that when he passed, jedi masters felt the tremor in the force across the length of the galaxy.
He IS that strong.
Originally posted by Wesker
In Sith society, the strongest ruled, period. He IS that strong.
There is actually no evidence that the sith as a species were like that. Ludo Kressh and many other sith lords on the council did not seem like the power hungry sith (not the specie but the dark jedi) that we come across (like Sidious and Malak etc.). In fact they seemed like they cared more about the sith empire than their own power. Naga Sadow was an exception. Think back to when the exiled jedi first arrived on Korriban. The sith were made slaves and treated the dark jedi like Gods. They seem more like sheep than power hungry tyrants.
Originally posted by Numan
There is actually no evidence that the sith as a species were like that. Ludo Kressh and many other sith lords on the council did not seem like the power hungry sith (not the specie but the dark jedi) that we come across (like Sidious and Malak etc.). In fact they seemed like they cared more about the sith empire than their own power. Naga Sadow was an exception. Think back to when the exiled jedi first arrived on Korriban. The sith were made slaves and treated the dark jedi like Gods. They seem more like sheep than power hungry tyrants.
...
No, you're wrong. They were all selfish and backstabbing and vying for power. Ludo simply didn't want to try and conquer the Republic as Sadow did. The Sith believed that the strongest should rule. This is the case throughout the entire series.
Originally posted by Numan
There is actually no evidence that the sith as a species were like that. Ludo Kressh and many other sith lords on the council did not seem like the power hungry sith (not the specie but the dark jedi) that we come across (like Sidious and Malak etc.). In fact they seemed like they cared more about the sith empire than their own power. Naga Sadow was an exception. Think back to when the exiled jedi first arrived on Korriban. The sith were made slaves and treated the dark jedi like Gods. They seem more like sheep than power hungry tyrants.
and why did they do that? Because they couldn't stand up against those guys.
Sadow and Kressh still fought for control, Ragnos took over from Simus, cut of the guy his head and then ruled over the Sith.
Ajunta Pall describes his time as a Sith as a time of fighting and backstabbing just trying to get each others secrets and taking control. Ajunta Pall was the first Dark Lord, there is no reason to assume that things would have changed in the time between Ragnos and Ajunta Pall twice. No reason to assume that they would have gone peaceful and then back to backstabbing ass hole's, especially as the entire sith ideology is based on the ideology of the race. Thats why they name themselves the same. The Sith want the most powerful to rule thats the idea behind the Sith, and that has never changed. Not once. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you can't.
Pall was not a true sith. And you are the one arguing bs. The fact is that there is hardly any evidence suggesting Ragnos was as powerful as you make him out to be. I am simply arguing that the sith were not too afraid to overthrow him and am trying to give other reasons that suggest they would not challenge him. I am not saying he wasn't powerful because he was extremely powerful (simply because he was able to defeat Simus, someone who was strong enough in the force to stay alive as only a head without many vital organs). I am simply stating that there is no evidence that he was more powerful than Sadow or Kressh etc.
Originally posted by Numan
Pall was not a true sith. And you are the one arguing bs. The fact is that there is hardly any evidence suggesting Ragnos was as powerful as you make him out to be. I am simply arguing that the sith were not too afraid to overthrow him and am trying to give other reasons that suggest they would not challenge him. I am not saying he wasn't powerful because he was extremely powerful (simply because he was able to defeat Simus, someone who was strong enough in the force to stay alive as only a head without many vital organs). I am simply stating that there is no evidence that he was more powerful than Sadow or Kressh etc.
Yes there is, he ruled over them...
In a Sith society the strongest rule, this has been done since the start until the very end of the Sith with Anakin throwing Palps into his death...
Now please show evidence for your assumption or drop it.
There is no evidence that he was feared so your point is moot. There are plenty of reasons why he was never challenged. He might have had a lot of influence with many sith lords so killing him would have been suicide. He might have been the best leader out of all of the lords and so people did not want to get rid of him. The might have respected him so much that they did not wish to get rid of him. There is also no evidence that these original sith lords followed the philosophy that people in the the Star Wars galaxy associated with the sith.
Originally posted by Numan
There is no evidence that he was feared so your point is moot. There are plenty of reasons why he was never challenged. He might have had a lot of influence with many sith lords so killing him would have been suicide. He might have been the best leader out of all of the lords and so people did not want to get rid of him. The might have respected him so much that they did not wish to get rid of him. There is also no evidence that these original sith lords followed the philosophy that people in the the Star Wars galaxy associated with the sith.
Except for everything anybody says about them....
Its constantly said. Ragnos was so powerful that none dared to move on him he was a half blood he was hated. He didn't have the support of many Sith Lords otherwise Sadow wouldn't have been able to even start a war against the republic. You are arguing against what is a stated fact, now unless you have some evidence that overrides that, you are wrong.