well, no question about it being a weak era. especially the heavyweight division. i can practically count the great boxers in the last 20 years on one hand.
defnitely: tyson, holyfield
good but underachievers: ibeabuchi, tua
meh: tom morrison, michael moorer, hashim rahman
oh and i never will consider lennox a good boxer. phuck lennox. glass jaw, cheap jabbing wh0re.
is tua fighting anyone soon?
Originally posted by Sado22oh and i never will consider lennox a good boxer. phuck lennox. glass jaw, cheap jabbing wh0re.
He was a boring fighter. No doubt about it. But he was technically sound and did his homework. On that basis he was better than most in a weakening (although not as bad as it is now) division. There was even talk of him making a comeback last year at 43 years old and the sad thing is that he probably could've done it and won the title.
He was a boring fighter. No doubt about it. But he was technically sound and did his homework. On that basis he was better than most in a weakening (although not as bad as it is now) division. There was even talk of him making a comeback last year at 43 years old and the sad thing is that he probably could've done it and won the title
thing with lennox is that he was not only boring but also a...welll...a pvssy. Ali slipped and moved but he never ran away from his opponents. more often that not ali would stand his ground and fight with counter punches and speed but he never ran away. Larry Holmes was another good technical fighter and even in his 40's he never ran away from a ferocious mike tyson. Lennox was a pvssy fighter. he just kept retreating with those jabs of his. in fact, that's all i remember of Lennox: him being a pvssy, throwing powerful jabs but with bad form and his chandelier jaw.
heck, i remember how i was looking at a boxing book and they had a picture of Lennox throwing the jab....and said that's how you NEVER throw a jab. at the time Lennox was the champ so that's doubly bad 😂
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22dont forget the constant clinching. What defined a lot of his fights was the fact that any opponent that did get inside he clinched like his life depended on it. Tua was always one dimentional though, his whole career was based on the idea that he would just walk through punishment to get in an t off.
the only good thing about lennox was that he was hardworking. he knew he had a bad chin so he spent all his time discipling himself. i do like that about him...he was disciplened unlike most of his other foes. compare his history with rahman. rahman won one fight, totally let it get to his head and got fubared in four rounds. same with tyson. against both of them, lennox did his homework, kept his attitude and emotions in check and conentrated on beating them while they were busy threatening and babbling and neglecting their training. so yea, i agree with that aspect of him. he was probably the last disciplined champ in heavyweight. i mean, tua and ibeabuchi were great fighters, had a lot of chin and heart but look what they both did. tua was 50pounds overweight when he fought Lennox...in a fight where had to do a lot of chasing. ibeabuchi...the whole thng was a disgrace.thing with lennox is that he was not only boring but also a...welll...a pvssy. Ali slipped and moved but he never ran away from his opponents. more often that not ali would stand his ground and fight with counter punches and speed but he never ran away. Larry Holmes was another good technical fighter and even in his 40's he never ran away from a ferocious mike tyson. Lennox was a pvssy fighter. he just kept retreating with those jabs of his. in fact, that's all i remember of Lennox: him being a pvssy, throwing powerful jabs but with bad form and his chandelier jaw.
heck, i remember how i was looking at a boxing book and they had a picture of Lennox throwing the jab....and said that's how you NEVER throw a jab. at the time Lennox was the champ so that's doubly bad 😂
~Sado
oh yeah, he clinched like a drunk ho. "thanx" for reminding me... 😂
as for Tua, true that, but his style worked for him imo and he was one of the rare cases of 90's boxers who had a combination of chin, power and determination. you either get heart and determination but not enough power (holyfeild), power and determination but no chin (99% of the 90's-2000's heavyweight division) or power and chin but no determination (tyson)
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
the only good thing about lennox was that he was hardworking. he knew he had a bad chin so he spent all his time discipling himself. i do like that about him...he was disciplened unlike most of his other foes. compare his history with rahman. rahman won one fight, totally let it get to his head and got fubared in four rounds. same with tyson. against both of them, lennox did his homework, kept his attitude and emotions in check and conentrated on beating them while they were busy threatening and babbling and neglecting their training. so yea, i agree with that aspect of him. he was probably the last disciplined champ in heavyweight. i mean, tua and ibeabuchi were great fighters, had a lot of chin and heart but look what they both did. tua was 50pounds overweight when he fought Lennox...in a fight where had to do a lot of chasing. ibeabuchi...the whole thng was a disgrace.thing with lennox is that he was not only boring but also a...welll...a pvssy. Ali slipped and moved but he never ran away from his opponents. more often that not ali would stand his ground and fight with counter punches and speed but he never ran away. Larry Holmes was another good technical fighter and even in his 40's he never ran away from a ferocious mike tyson. Lennox was a pvssy fighter. he just kept retreating with those jabs of his. in fact, that's all i remember of Lennox: him being a pvssy, throwing powerful jabs but with bad form and his chandelier jaw.
heck, i remember how i was looking at a boxing book and they had a picture of Lennox throwing the jab....and said that's how you NEVER throw a jab. at the time Lennox was the champ so that's doubly bad 😂
~Sado
Lewis was guilty of arrogance on occasion too. He'd never have been beaten from Rahman in the 1st place if he hadn't thought he was far too good for him thus leading to his poor altitude training and poor preparation in general. He could also mouth off shit with the best of them.
I would also look at his "running away" from opponents as strategic (against some anyway). If you're fitter than your opponent then why not make them chase you around the ring and tire themselves out. It clearly worked.
I would say he was the last good champion in a failing division.
Originally posted by Sado22
tactical retreat is one thing, runnng away is another. Lewis RAN from hard hitters and clinched like a biatch....hence, pvssy.
If he was simply a pussy then he wouldn't have won as often as he did.
2 loses....Both to opponents he then later went on to beat. 1 draw also to an opponent he later went on to beat.
Out of the 7 fighters you previously mentioned...He's fought 5 of them...and beaten 5 of them.
So i'd say of all the valid criticisms that can be levied at him, being a pussy isn't 1 of them.
One of things that a lot of people say was boring about him is his reliance on the jab...If you were 6"5 and had an 84 inch reach (one of the longest in heavyweight boxing) then i'm pretty sure you would rely on it too. Any smart fighter fights to their strengths...Lewis did exactly that.
I do have to say though. His 2nd fight with Oliver McCall was one of the most bizarre things i've ever seen in boxing. McCall refused to fight in the 4th and 5th rounds and burst into tears in the ring so the ref stopped the fight.
Originally posted by jaden101I disagree. Wins do not necessary make you a nonpussy fighter. Vlad Klitchko is a bullshit fighter too but hes still a champ. Thats says more about the division than the fighter.
If he was simply a pussy then he wouldn't have won as often as he did.2 loses....Both to opponents he then later went on to beat. 1 draw also to an opponent he later went on to beat.
Out of the 7 fighters you previously mentioned...He's fought 5 of them...and beaten 5 of them.
So i'd say of all the valid criticisms that can be levied at him, being a pussy isn't 1 of them.
One of things that a lot of people say was boring about him is his reliance on the jab...If you were 6"5 and had an 84 inch reach (one of the longest in heavyweight boxing) then i'm pretty sure you would rely on it too. Any smart fighter fights to their strengths...Lewis did exactly that.
I do have to say though. His 2nd fight with Oliver McCall was one of the most bizarre things i've ever seen in boxing. McCall refused to fight in the 4th and 5th rounds and burst into tears in the ring so the ref stopped the fight.
Originally posted by HueyFreeman
I disagree. Wins do not necessary make you a nonpussy fighter. Vlad Klitchko is a bullshit fighter too but hes still a champ. Thats says more about the division than the fighter.
The division as it is now. There's noone of any calibre left. Lewis actually fought some solid fighters in his time. People who would easily be champion now if they were fighting as they did then.
i guess its a matter of opinion. you're right about relyng on jabs because of his reach and hieght, agreed. but there's something called reliance and then there's do-something-else-already-you-shite! he's like those cheap Tekken players who keep down the crouching jabs. if lennox was a videogame character he'd be broken 😂
and then when you tie that too excessve clinching...IMO it makes you a pvssy. but that's just me because i believe that a champ should fight like a champ.
as for beating good boxers, I think he owes it more to his discipline and focus than anything else. Rahman (in fight2) and Tyson were unfocused and undisciplined, talking trash when they should've kept their cool. Tua ballooned 50 pounds when he should've lost it so he could catch up to Lennox. Olivier McCall had serious personal issues going at the time. Holyfeild was shorter, older and slower.
notice how both Rahman and McCall dropped him with one clean hits. and Tua had him wobbling with a graze. like they say, glassjaw.
so there you go: the "strong fighters" he fought were either old, smaller, marred with personal issues, overweight or all four.
lennox was only good cuz he was in the weakest era of boxing and fought has-beens or had no busness in the ring that night. Tyson was a has been. holyfied was a hasbeen. tua was overweight. Rahman was overconfident. McCall was bummed out.
even if people are going to talk about him being a good boxer, the fact that they rated him as the 48th greatest boxer of all time is a disgrace.
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22notice how both Rahman and McCall dropped him with one clean hits. and Tua had him wobbling with a graze. like they say, glassjaw.
In the heavyweight division, anyone can be dropped by anyone if a single punch connects properly.
Even Frank Bruno (arguably the biggest pussy in heavyweight history) managed to hurt Tyson during their fight.
Best example i've seen in the last few years is when Audley Harrison fought Michael Sprott. Sprott is a journeyman...He threw a blind left hook while he was staring at the floor and knocked Harrison (a former olympic champion) out cold.
that points to lack of chin and toughness. Frank Bruno hurt tyson but he never dropped tyson and tyson was laid out. he was hurt, but hurts the name of the game. we're tlaking about falling down with clean hits. how many cleans hits did Willard take from Dempsey? how many clean lefthooks did Ali catch from Frazier? how many clean punches did Tyson land on Holmes? how many clean hits did Ibeabuchi take from Tua and viseversa?
and yet Willard kept coming back for more for 4 rounds (and that was Dempsey). and yet Ali kept going for 10+ rounds all three times. and yet Holmes kept fighting for 5 or 6 rounds iirc. and yet Ibeabuchi and Tua finished the fight.
chums getting laid out in one clean hit is proof of how weak the modern heavyweight division is and how long ago the golden days seem.
btw, i have a theory on the matter: i don't know if you box or no, but if you ever watch the training sessions you should notice the number of times you'll hear "keep your hands up", "you don't want to be caught", "if you get hit your done", "try not to get hit" etc. etc. its like these days boxers are given subliminal messsages to FEAR getting hit. i understand and am totally up for caution, but its boxing not foreplay. you step in that ring and the first thing you should drill in your skull is "i'm going to get hit". but coaches and trainers instead install this dread of being hit. the message they give you is not "you gotta be tough because you're gonna get hit but you get back up" but "don't get hit or you're phucked".
a big part of boxing is the mentality with which you step in the ring. the greatest chins in boxing are actually mental conditioning as much as they are godgiven gifts. Lamotta, Marciano, Dempsey, Ali, Frazier, Loius, Holyfeild, Tua...all of them came to the ring with CONFDENCE in their ability to take punches and NOT FEARNG punches. that's not taught today.
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
that points to lack of chin and toughness. Frank Bruno hurt tyson but he never dropped tyson and tyson was laid out. he was hurt, but hurts the name of the game. we're tlaking about falling down with clean hits. how many cleans hits did Willard take from Dempsey? how many clean lefthooks did Ali catch from Frazier? how many clean punches did Tyson land on Holmes? how many clean hits did Ibeabuchi take from Tua and viseversa?and yet Willard kept coming back for more for 4 rounds (and that was Dempsey). and yet Ali kept going for 10+ rounds all three times. and yet Holmes kept fighting for 5 or 6 rounds iirc. and yet Ibeabuchi and Tua finished the fight.
chums getting laid out in one clean hit is proof of how weak the modern heavyweight division is and how long ago the golden days seem.
btw, i have a theory on the matter: i don't know if you box or no, but if you ever watch the training sessions you should notice the number of times you'll hear "keep your hands up", "you don't want to be caught", "if you get hit your done", "try not to get hit" etc. etc. its like these days boxers are given subliminal messsages to FEAR getting hit. i understand and am totally up for caution, but its boxing not foreplay. you step in that ring and the first thing you should drill in your skull is "i'm going to get hit". but coaches and trainers instead install this dread of being hit. the message they give you is not "you gotta be tough because you're gonna get hit but you get back up" but "don't get hit or you're phucked".
a big part of boxing is the mentality with which you step in the ring. the greatest chins in boxing are actually mental conditioning as much as they are godgiven gifts. Lamotta, Marciano, Dempsey, Ali, Frazier, Loius, Holyfeild, Tua...all of them came to the ring with CONFDENCE in their ability to take punches and NOT FEARNG punches. that's not taught today.
~Sado
I think it has a lot more to do with avoiding Parkinson's disease than it does with avoiding the punches themselves 😆
I know what you're getting though but physiologically a single punch from a heavyweight boxer can knockout anyone if connected right (this varies depending on who gets hit) but it's simply a matter of accelerating the head so rapidly that the brain impacts violently on the inside of the skull and causes unconsciousness. This is far more likely in the heavyweights because of the force involved.
One thing you'll notice in a lot of the fighters who could take hits is that they have necks are thick as their heads...this means less movement of the head when it is hit and less chance of them being knocked out cold.
So maybe it's more a case of "glass neck" than "glass chin" 😄
But yeah...I know Lewis was an unpopular fighter because his style generally made for shit and unexciting fights...I don't think that made him a shit fighter. Quite the opposite...He didn't have the power to one punch knockout opponents with certaintly...He didn't have the handspeed that many fighters had. So he used what tools he did have...And he did so with great effect.
Originally posted by jaden101But its a testament to how bad it was even then when you consider the fact that lewis was a champion in that era. He had huge problems with a broke down Holyfield, (holyfield was never even a very hard heavyweight puncher to begin with) and many feel that evander was robbed the second fight with lewis as lewis was robbed the first. By the time Lewis became champ the heavyweight division was on life support. The lazyness we see in this era was visible in the 90s era too. Bowe coming to fights overweight, tyson having bullshit yes men trainers, Lewis himself coming in undertrained against rahman. Even when ali came in undertrained he still had the heart of a fighter, most of the fighters in the 90s didn't even have that. Truth is the 90s was a huge indicator that the heavyweight division was heading to where it is now. Its no surprise you got guys life samuel peter showing up to fights 50 pounds overweight.
I think it has a lot more to do with avoiding Parkinson's disease than it does with avoiding the punches themselves 😆I know what you're getting though but physiologically a single punch from a heavyweight boxer can knockout anyone if connected right (this varies depending on who gets hit) but it's simply a matter of accelerating the head so rapidly that the brain impacts violently on the inside of the skull and causes unconsciousness. This is far more likely in the heavyweights because of the force involved.
One thing you'll notice in a lot of the fighters who could take hits is that they have necks are thick as their heads...this means less movement of the head when it is hit and less chance of them being knocked out cold.
So maybe it's more a case of "glass neck" than "glass chin" 😄
But yeah...I know Lewis was an unpopular fighter because his style generally made for shit and unexciting fights...I don't think that made him a shit fighter. Quite the opposite...He didn't have the power to one punch knockout opponents with certaintly...He didn't have the handspeed that many fighters had. So he used what tools he did have...And he did so with great effect.
I don't think it was as bad as you're making it out. There was some fighters then that if they were in their prime now they would easily be champion.
Ruddock, Bowe, McCall, Holyfield, Tyson, Morrison, Tucker, Hide, Tua.
Who is their now?...The Klitchko's and the big freak Valuev.
The sad thing is looking to the future there's very few who even look promising.
Dennis Boytsov (only 23 years old yet is 25-0)
Andrzej Wawrzyk
Oleg Platov
Roman Greenberg
That's about it.
I think it has a lot more to do with avoiding Parkinson's disease than it does with avoiding the punches themselves
I know what you're getting though but physiologically a single punch from a heavyweight boxer can knockout anyone if connected right (this varies depending on who gets hit) but it's simply a matter of accelerating the head so rapidly that the brain impacts violently on the inside of the skull and causes unconsciousness. This is far more likely in the heavyweights because of the force involved
Originally posted by Sado22
😂 yeah, head injuries and dementia are a definite no-no but its like having a speed driver and telling him not to go over 60mph because speeding causes accident. its phucking stupid.
oh and btw, parkinson's disease has little to do with head trauma. ali suffering from it was credited to boxing almost automatically but parkinson's more of a genetic disease. also its interesting that symptoms of parkinson began appearing during his suspension from boxing, at time when he was going through one setback after another: divorce, political issues, revoked license, no job etc etc. iirc he was out of action for 5 years or something like that and that's when the symptoms began showing. like i said, the moment people saw teh parkinson disease, everyone wanted it to be because of boxing before the test even came out. even as of now, there's no definite known cause of parkinson's besides genetic or toxic ones. at best, boxing aggravated it but never caused it.yes, you're right scientifically. a heavyweight boxer actually SHOULD actually put down someone to sleep with a decent shot...which scientifically proves that lennox is a pvssy cuz he never could despite being 6"5 and over 240 pounds 😱
Ok if you want to be technically correct. Parkinsonism or Demetia Pugelistica/chronic traumatic encephalopathy. The symptoms are the same.
He also rarely got knocked out and took a lot of big hits from Tua in their fight (among others) so the criticism of glass jaw is pretty weak.
Oh...and he didn't half KO Rahman.
Watching some old fights though it's easy to see that refs nowadays just don't allow fighters to take that level of punishment before stopping fights. Infact some of the stoppages in recent years have been a complete joke.