Ozymandias vs Captain America

Originally posted by h1a8
Dude who cares if Cap is stronger? What the hell is that going to do? I can beat the shit out of someone stronger than me but less skilled. Ozy is still superhuman. Stop trolling and acting like he has just human stats.

Cap beating aliens that can't fight at all is pathetic.
Cap beating soldiers that can't fight is pathetic.

So again how is Cap beating non fighting aliens and soldiers >>> Ozy feats of skill?

Trolling at it's finest I see.

Again; Cap is stronger, more durable and his HTH feats of defeating trained soldiers and superhuman aliens > Ozy HTH feats of beating random thugs and vigilantes whose only feats are beating random thugs.

Originally posted by h1a8
How the hell was he surprised? He did the shit casually and on purpose. Look at the scene again please.

Cap is not far stronger per feats. At best he 1.5-2 times stronger. But being stronger is not going to win this fight here. Those soldiers didn't know how to fight. Also those aliens didn't either. Black Widow and Barton were schooling them easily. LOL I didn't even see them throw a punch for crying out loud. Maybe they did though. Who cares?

Sorry but a steel shield isn't going to used as a costume to do shows with. It's too phucking heavy dude. It being penetrated by a bullet is sufficient in showing it was not steel. No one even mentioned Red Skull denting it made it not steel. You made this up.

By him not every doing it before makes it more impressive than ever. It not only shows his durability, speed, and reflexes, but indirectly it showed the residual his incredible fighting skill that achieved some of those things.

If Cap tried to catch a bullet, he would have failed miserably. [/B]

Having seen the scene again....you could also say that it hit his armoured body, then he clasped it in his hand afterwards, to get a psych advantage..

YouTube video

Originally posted by h1a8
Never said nor implied it. But it gives Ozy a hella push towards being > Cap since Cap can't come close to doing that himself.
Ozy's better fighting skill, reflexes, and h2h speed, combined with catching a bullet seals the deal.

Better fighting skill is highly debatabel. Reflexes? Maybe, though I wouldn't say so. h2h speed? not imo.

What are you basing this on?

I think people are forgetting Movie! Cap's greatest feat.

Knocking out Adolf Hitler over 200 times.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Rorschach got beat by five cops... Cap beat dozens of trained (apparently you are unaware that soldiers under go combat training) soldiers, human or otherwise.

Going under an unknown training doesn't mean shit. Thor has thousands of years of experience and is still a child compared to comic Cap in skill.

Those German soldiers fought like shit. The american soldiers easily beat their asses. They couldn't fight whatsoever. We prove fighting ability by showings. They didn't show shit. Rorshach and Nite Owl showed they were awesome as hell.
Yet Ozy treated them like children. Take your hand off your face and look how Ozy fought and Cap fought. Ozy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cap in skill.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Better fighting skill is highly debatabel. Reflexes? Maybe, though I wouldn't say so. h2h speed? not imo.

What are you basing this on?

No it's not. Debating that Cap is as skilled as Ozy is trolling. Cap had no great training in fighting. He didn't have the fighting technique when he was skinny. When he became Cap he relied on his enhanced physicality to overcome. He did no great skilled h2h maneuvers against attacks that were hard to defend against.

You can't give a character attributes they never showed. Cap never showed the level of reflexes and hand speed Ozy showed. Cap can't move his hand to respond to a bullet. He never showed this type of hand speed. Cap never blocked very swift kicks and punches from both sides of him simultaneously.

What did R do again that showed he was an awesome fighter?

And yes, steel plate can absolutely be pierced by bullets.

I'm now changing my stance to Ozy actually getting hit by the bullet and tanking it with his awesome ab armour, then holding it in his hand afterwards to troll Silk Spectre.

You can't prove otherwise.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it's not. Debating that Cap is as skilled as Ozy is trolling. Cap had no great training in fighting. He didn't have the fighting technique when he was skinny. When he became Cap he relied on his enhanced physicality to overcome. He did no great skilled h2h maneuvers against attacks that were hard to defend against.

You can't give a character attributes they never showed. Cap never showed the level of reflexes and hand speed Ozy showed. Cap can't move his hand to respond to a bullet. He never showed this type of hand speed. Cap never blocked very swift kicks and punches from both sides of him simultaneously.

It isn't trolling.

Cap had military combat training. That was made clear.

Cap not using eastern martial arts doesn't mean he's not skilled, he was skilled enough to beat trained soldiers and superhuman level alien invaders.

He was durable enough to take hits from Loki, people that could dent steel, lasers that could knock Iron-man around, impacts that could smash the roof of a car.

Strong enough to bend metal, punch amored soldiers around 20ft, punch through reinforced glass while underwater, casually lift a motorcycle w/3 people on it etc etc etc

Originally posted by h1a8
Sorry but a steel shield isn't going to used as a costume to do shows with. It's too phucking heavy dude. It being penetrated by a bullet is sufficient in showing it was not steel. No one even mentioned Red Skull denting it made it not steel. You made this up.

You misunderstand my intention. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and trying to understand your logic here.

While I can certainly see the logic that carbon steel or heavier metals would be too heavy to use as a standard stage prop (a steel sheet of the same dimension would be around 70 lbs from my calculation). A common metal that existed at the time that would be ideal for a stage prop as well would be aluminum w/c would weigh a very reasonable 20-25 lbs.

I've watched the movie several times, there's a scratch in SOME parts but it didn't go all the way thru. Here's a pic of the actual shield prop used in the movie complete with battle damage up to the Red Skull's punch dent that was put on auction:

That's made of rubber 😱

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I did, no shock like in the comic....but that armoured glove..man :-p
[/B]

Rorschach couldn't fight either.......he got owned by the police, no?
[quote] Yet wipe the floor with everyone he faced. Didn't he get cheatshotted anyway.

[quote][b]
Steel can be penetrated by bullets.......you're making up this mythical steel which is bulletproof. And why would you care about the weight, when you have a superstrong showman???

Having seen the scene again....you could also say that it hit his armoured body, then he clasped it in his hand afterwards, to get a psych advantage..

YouTube video

Originally posted by h1a8
Armored glove? Prove it. Also that still doesn't take away the speed and reflexes needed to do that shit.

That video I showed. He has padded gloves. Remember how I posted Batman swatting bullets away, and you reduced the feat to him having armoured gauntlets in that scene? Yup.

Only armored piercing bullets can penetrated steel that thick. The bullets they used in the 30s-40s were far inferior to today's bullets (especially our specialty armored piercing variety). The people who made it had to carry it around and store it that's why. And it doesn't make any phucking sense to make a heavy ass shield for a show, strongman or not.

Makes sense from an economic perspective during a war. Use cheap heavy iron. No need to waste good aluminium or a lovely light metal when you can just melt several trash cans and use that.

But you want to bring in the argument that the tech they used in the 30s-40s was inferior to present day tech? OK. When we have supersoldiers, mass produced HYDRA laser rail guns and supermassive flying wing airborne aircraft carriers, call me.

Oh my god! You clearly see him catch the bullet, as per writer intentions. No need to troll me here. [/B]

Originally posted by -Pr-
It isn't trolling.

Cap had military combat training. That was made clear.

When? The movie never showed it. The only thing that came close to Cap training is him hitting the punching bag in the movie Avengers. And we all know combat training is meaningless in itself. It's what you do in fighting that proves skill, otherwise Thor would be far more skilled than Cap in comics.

Lastly, it's fair to say that Ozy's skills exceeds any type of american combat training.

Originally posted by h1a8
When? The movie never showed it. The only thing that came close to Cap training is him hitting the punching bag in the movie Avengers. And we all know combat training is meaningless in itself. It's what you do in fighting that proves skill, otherwise Thor would be far more skilled than Cap in comics.

Lastly, it's fair to say that Ozy's skills exceeds any type of american combat training.

Cap was in the army, and was training with the army until he was given the serum.

And Cap showed against Loki, and in the various fights throughout his two movies, that he's a solid fighter imo.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

That video I showed. He has padded gloves. Remember how I posted Batman swatting bullets away, and you reduced the feat to him having armoured gauntlets in that scene? Yup.[/B]

Makes sense from an economic perspective during a war. Use cheap heavy iron. No need to waste good aluminium or a lovely light metal when you can just melt several trash cans and use that.

Nope.

You have no idea how heavy a shield that size would be if it was made of steel or iron do you? Not only would it be bulletproof (to non armor piercing rounds) but almost impossible to carry by ordinary humans.

You can't destroy the fact that a bullet went clean through it like nothing. A heavy ass steel shield is not getting penetrated by ordinary machine gun rounds from the 30s and 40s.

Prove that a 40's era steel shield would be bullet-proof.

Originally posted by h1a8
You have no idea how heavy a shield that size would be if it was made of steel or iron do you? Not only would it be bulletproof (to non armor piercing rounds) but almost impossible to carry by ordinary humans.

You can't destroy the fact that a bullet went clean through it like nothing. A heavy ass steel shield is not getting penetrated by ordinary machine gun rounds from the 30s and 40s.

You want to bring in the argument that the tech they used in the 30s-40s was inferior to present day tech? OK. When we have supersoldiers, mass produced HYDRA laser rail guns and supermassive flying wing airborne aircraft carriers, call me.

I mean, its quite strange. On the one hand, you're saying 'show me proof of ABC'. And then on the other hand, you're attempting to apply real world logic to it, in the absence of proof which suits you.

....uh, the US government clearly stated that HYDRA's deep science cell had tech exponentially more advanced that what the Allied forces had.

The Super Soldier Serum was literally their ace in the hole to counter HYDRA. That was also stated several times in the movie.