Originally posted by IKC
To assume that most if not all senators were present is a huge fallacy, Glentract.They were there to put Ulic Qel-Droma on trial after he attacked Coruscant. They believed him to be the true head behind this threat, only Vodo knew that Kun was the master. Ergo, it's safe to assume that most if not all Senators were present.
Why would all of them have to be there for this? The threat of the Sith wasn't much of a threat to the Republic as a whole. As you stated many times before, the Great Sith War was little more then a few strikes at outpost and a stupid, horribly failed attack on Coruscant.
Originally posted by IKC
Nonsense, colony worlds did have representation. Indeed, even non-government entities had representation. To say that the Trade Federation gets delegates but entire planets do not is foolish.
Name a single colony world that has representation. Just one.
The Trade Federation was only there because they were defending themselves from Amidala's claims. Notice that they are the ONLY non-government corporation we ever see in the Senate. There time there was a special circumstance so that they could defend themselves from the claims against them. It wasn't often that corporations were in the Senate.
Originally posted by IKC
Perhaps member worlds. But colony worlds would be far higher.
Colony Worlds lack a seat in Senate. The number of those does not matter.
Originally posted by IKC
But it's foolish to just assume, without proof, that they would not be present for the trial of a man who just attacked the Republic.
Here is my proof, not everyone could fit in that stadium. It simply was not designed to hold that many people. Oh, and there is that fact that the Great Sith Wars barely even affected the Republic as a whole.
Originally posted by IKC
Oh please. Did you note how massive that chamber actually was? I could easily just say "looking at it, it must have held X million people."That's totally subjective. So is what you're saying.
Yes, I suppose you could say that. It doesn't make you right. It's far to small to hold that many people. Even the one in ROTS has far less then ten thousand pods. Assume 10 Senators per pod and that's still only a hundred thousand Senators. With things like galactic communication, being in the actual building is often unnecessary.
Originally posted by IKC
Nonsense, because there's no proof that the members weren't there (indeed, the opposite is proper to assume) and the membership was enormous. 1 million is a safe low number.
No, it isn't. There is no way nor reason that a million people would have been in that building.
Originally posted by IKC
Nice job knowing what you're talking about, Glentract...THIS IS TAKEN FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FIGHT. That scan is from Kun's fight with Vodo on Dantooine when Kun was still an apprentice!
Hm. Okay. I'm just telling you what I heard from Fishy.
Originally posted by IKC
That is the fight in question. Vodo gets nowhere near Kun, who controls the fight for the duration. Quod erat demonstrandum.
When Kun was using a single lightsaber it appeared to me that they vere evenly matched. It was only when Exar brought out his double lightsaber that he got the upper hand.
Originally posted by IKC
Yes, he was planning on it. And then, apparently when he realized that he couldn't do it, he didn't. So... this means jack shit, then.
No, it doesn't. You horribly misunderstood what I typed. Joruus was planning on controlling those men all the way to Coruscant. We learned that this would require him to control them for a full five days. It was only when he learned that he would have to control many other ships as well, plus that he would have to control the Chimera and all those other ships for even longer then five days because of the siege of Coruscant that would take place that he backed down. He believed himself capable of controlling those 37,000 men for five days.
Originally posted by IKC
True, but Exar's shown feat is on a much more massive scale than Joruus'. As well, since he was shown to do battle rather than merely talk, it appears it was easier for Kun to perform his action than Joruus' to perform his.
As I said, no one is claiming that Joruus would stand a chance against Kun. The difference is that Exar only controlled them for a few minutes, where Joruus planned to control them for many days. We are talking over a thousand times longer then Exar controlled the Senate.
Originally posted by IKC
And don't claim it to be an impossible task for Kun. Kun's shown a greater use of the power with greater ease than Joruus ever showed us. Ergo, it's not logical to assume that Kun would be unable to perform what Joruus planned.
What is this greater use of mind control that Kun has used? Don't forget that Kun merely had them watching him, but Joruus had all of them doing whatever he wanted and could read all of their minds.
BTW, there is a post over at Edge of Destiny in the Antediluvian thread for you to respond to.
Why would all of them have to be there for this? The threat of the Sith wasn't much of a threat to the Republic as a whole. As you stated many times before, the Great Sith War was little more then a few strikes at outpost and a stupid, horribly failed attack on Coruscant.
I've stated it was a few spectacular attacks of terrorism. Actually, Ulic's attack on Coruscant would have succeeded, however, if Aleema had not pulled his forces back and left him out to dry.
They were present because he was on trial by the Senate. There's no reason to assume they were absent, and even less when you see the seats were full.
Name a single colony world that has representation. Just one.
Lol! Okay, give me a colony world then.
The Trade Federation was only there because they were defending themselves from Amidala's claims. Notice that they are the ONLY non-government corporation we ever see in the Senate. There time there was a special circumstance so that they could defend themselves from the claims against them. It wasn't often that corporations were in the Senate.
Uh, bullshit. The Trade Federation was there because they have delegates.
And yes, they're the only non-government entity we see in the Senate. And absence of proof is not proof of absence. Ergo, it's a safe assumption to believe that similar entities have representation.
By the way, it's not like Amidala made a grand announcement that she was going to indict the Federation. So how would they know claims would be made against them?
Colony Worlds lack a seat in Senate. The number of those does not matter.
Prove up.
Here is my proof, not everyone could fit in that stadium. It simply was not designed to hold that many people. Oh, and there is that fact that the Great Sith Wars barely even affected the Republic as a whole.
No, that's your subjective observation.
And there is the fact that the Sith War (its real title, stop calling it the Great Sith Wars, etc) pretty much ruined most of the Republic's military shipyards and destroyed a cluster of ten stars. It did affect the Republic quite a bit.
Attacking the seat of government is a call for action. The Senators were present. To claim otherwise begs for proof, and you've provided none.
Yes, I suppose you could say that. It doesn't make you right. It's far to small to hold that many people.
According to your subjective observation.
Even the one in ROTS has far less then ten thousand pods.
Did it hurt when you pulled this number out of your ass?
No, it isn't. There is no way nor reason that a million people would have been in that building.
Yes, it is. Your subjective observation doesn't mean anything. You are required to prove up.
Hm. Okay. I'm just telling you what I heard from Fishy.
Versus somebody who actually has all the comics. You were dead wrong.
hen Kun was using a single lightsaber it appeared to me that they vere evenly matched. It was only when Exar brought out his double lightsaber that he got the upper hand.
This is something like the fifth Lightsnake argument you've used since you've come back, the "zOMG, EXAR PULLED OUT A TRUMP CARD" bullshit.
Here, something Nai told Lightsnake:
They are deadlocked ? How often do people have to post the scans until you can see what they show. Right before Kun activates the second blade Vodo is leaning towards Kun's saber with all his might while Kun simply stands there - holding his saber in one hand - then gets back from the fight, ignites the second blade, presents the weapon, talks about making the fight "more interresting", asks if Vodo likes the modification on his lightsaber and then outright pwns him.
Sorry. Kun controlled and toyed with Vodo the entire time. Then, when it was clear Vodo wouldn't join, Kun busts through his staff with one side of his saber.
No, it doesn't. You horribly misunderstood what I typed. Joruus was planning on controlling those men all the way to Coruscant. We learned that this would require him to control them for a full five days. It was only when he learned that he would have to control many other ships as well, plus that he would have to control the Chimera and all those other ships for even longer then five days because of the siege of Coruscant that would take place that he backed down. He believed himself capable of controlling those 37,000 men for five days.
No, it appears I understood it perfectly well.
If he believed himself capable, why didn't he do it? Hm? I love how you're not mentioning that he's a freaking madman and his judgment is far from the best.
As I said, no one is claiming that Joruus would stand a chance against Kun. The difference is that Exar only controlled them for a few minutes, where Joruus planned to control them for many days. We are talking over a thousand times longer then Exar controlled the Senate.
Except Exar controlled many times as many beings and did so with so little effort that he was able to walk around, use the Chancellor as a puppet, and do battle.
And just because Joruus planned to do it doesn't mean he could or did do it. Ergo, that point means precisely dick.
What is this greater use of mind control that Kun has used? Don't forget that Kun merely had them watching him, but Joruus had all of them doing whatever he wanted and could read all of their minds.
They are "forced to watch and not react." That does seem to be mind control, no? Just because he didn't have them dancing or performing cabaret doesn't mean he couldn't - the ease with which he held them indicates otherwise.
So wait you're saying because Kun didn't control the senate and make them do things, it doesn't mean that he can't right? So by that logic I can say just because we've never seen Luke do something like use blasts, doesn't mean that he can't right? If you're going to go by the whole "doesn't mean he can't" logic, try doing it for everybody, not just your hero.
So wait you're saying because Kun didn't control the senate and make them do things, it doesn't mean that he can't right?
Actually, what this means is, in other words, "absence of proof is not proof of absence."
Ergo, because we have something to go on here (his feat), and there's plenty to suggest he was capable of far more (the ease with which he performed it), then it is safe to assume that he'd be able to do more.
The absence of proof (that he didn't do it) is not proof of absence.
Once again, your argument of "Just be cause he didn't do it doesn't mean he can". I can say the same crap about Luke who could create ships through the force or manipulate black holes. Just because we never see him use a force storm or some technique doesn't mean he can't. So again if you're going to use that argument you have to use it for everybody that it could apply to.
You're missing the point, the people I talk about at least have a premise to go on: in other words, they are shown to have had probable access to the information. To claim that Luke knows Force Storm is ludicrous, however: for one, it is a Dark Side attack, and secondly it is a Sith technique that Palpatine certainly didn't teach him.
However, the Storm is described as a weapon of the Ancient Sith. So, since absence of proof is not proof of absence, it's safe to assume that people like Naga Sadow or Marka Ragnos may know how to do it.
Ok I get that so what is your logic with what you just said about Kun. Just because he didn't manipulate the senate doesn't mean he couldn't do it. There's no way to prove he could do it, there's no way to prove Luke could use force powers that weren't stated in his books.. I understand what you're saying but it's very faulty logic to use with any SW character.
Just because he didn't manipulate the senate doesn't mean he couldn't do it.
Well, he did manipulate the Senate. That, combined with the apparent ease with which he performed it, is my premise behind saying that he could have done other things and just because he didn't doesn't mean he couldn't.
There's no way to prove he could do it
No, it's not proof but it is certainly a valid assumption. Assumptions in and of themselves aren't bad, you just have to base them in logic, evidence, etc.
Well I can't use the Luke example because they both have different powers and feats, but Luke was also shown to do his thing with relative ease.
What was he shown to do with ease?
But what exactly downplays C'Baoth's feat?
Well, it's not really a feat. The long and short of it is, Joruus (a madman) thought he was capable of controlling roughly 37,000 people for five days. But then he decided not to.
So he really didn't... do anything. That and when you consider his madness + megalomania, doesn't speak much for Joruus.