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Ben loses because Mider says so? Because that's how fights work. (sarcasm)
Mider, you need to prove your point, or it's just dribble. Also, I'm going to post some rules from this thread that YOU SHOULD HAVE READ BEFORE POSTING ON THIS FORUM!
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html
No bashing.
Don't attack your fellow posters, it won't be tolerated.
No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.
No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.
No Mentioning Events of PIS
Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks.
Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.
No SvFL
Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.
You've been in violation of all those rules so far in this debate. I've been nice and haven't reported you, but unless you shape up, I'm going to PM the mods about your behavior, and ask them to do something about it.
Can't we all just get along? group
I now these debates can get rather heated sometimes but there isn't any need to make personal attacks or insults. The point of this board above anything else is to be fun and enjoyable and sometimes you just have to agree to disagree on certain issues. Fighting rarely makes either individual or their position look good.
And personally I've found the Internet to be an invaluable tool here. There are people out there who know far more about characters and teams than I will ever know and I don't see anything wrong with using the info they have gathered.
I also tend to use scans from this site and a few others far more than I do on my personal collection of comics. And it did take a good deal of time after I first joined for me to look over them all and thus be able to use them in debates.
I've always found both of you to be pretty cool members, so how about everybody just relax a little and admit that this got a little out of hand? I mean nothing good is really going to result in you two fighting like this, imo.
the things i said were not PIS they happend ok he hurts flash once that might be PIS but he did it four times and i believe his being able to do that was explained, then slade himself has taken super human punches before and not died, he has been surgecally been cut open and healed, so your sonic boom thing is not really that great, thing is durable but not against slades tech, personal? sweet mother what is it with you? i mean you bring nothing of an argument then attack mine i mean what is it with you? and then you report me to the mods? they should read some of your posts ben wins cause he's NY and you call me a fanboy? Ben wins cause he is stronger even though i told you why he wouldnt even touch slade in a million years, oh slade cant hurt thing umm i told you why he could already he would get speedblizthed and have his head cut off with that super sword slade has, even though wolverine wasnt able to hurt ben he has in other comics, and he can do that to ben cause he's stronger, if this fight goes your way its canon but if it doesnt then its PIS labled so by you, i dont need to give you scans or anything because you havent brought any scans or anything so please stop being a hypocrite, slade's bombs are enough to hurt super girl and WW and you think ben would servive those, then his promethium staff you forget that and you still think ben would win this battle even though ben cant even touch spiderman and slade is faster then spiderman PIS please man grow up its not PIS its feats that he can do and has done.
No SvFL
Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.
Straight from the rules.
already told you alot of those things were not PIS taking out Superboy or WW with a super grenade, not PIS
hurting speedsters not PIS he's done it i dont know how many times and has been shown to be able to see things at super speed
having that sword i said not PIS
How he beat the JLA hawkman plastic man etc is beyond me but im not talking about those instences im talking about others that are more viable and have been explained his reflexes are said to be fast enough to see the flash and thus hurt him, he has been cut open in the past only to heal so fast they couldnt operate on him thats not PIS either so i cant see thing doing any lasting injury to slade, the grenades that hurt super boy and super girl have been used more then once so there not PIS, he has cut through super hard substances before since he has super strengh him cutting through ben is not PIS wolverine not being able to cut through ben means nothing since wolverine has no super strengh on slades level. Slade is faster then flash cause he can walk between machine gun fire like nothing, he's also taken anti tank weapons against him all this stuff is not PIS sorry.
Slade's got good reflexes, but not super-speed. If he's near Spider-Man's level, I'm not surprised that he can dodge gunfire. I know he can take anti-tank weapons, and such, but it's gonna take a lot to take Ben down in an urban enviornment, especially if it's New York. I've been to New York, and there's plenty of ways for the two to get around each other's attacks. How about we let some others debate about this, considering you and I have kinda taken up the whole thing. Also, thanks for doing better with making your posts more readable.
slades taken out flash on more than one occassion. Its not that he's faster than him (yes, slade does have super speed... all his physical attributes are beyond human, though not insane) its that he can react at a rate much faster than flash. Flash has demonstrated amazing speed capabilities, but his reaction time isnt quite up there with slades, enabling slade to "beat him to the punch" on occassion
not only has he cought slade he's actually chased a speedster down on foot and kicked his butt, he has precog so yeah he has a good chance of hitting flash even with out his reflexes, and he has the strengh to hurt ben alot more then wolvie could he's been shown to cut through very strong substances, and he has those uber grenades how he did in identity crisis i dont know ive never read it so how would i know what he did was it PIS i dont know but i do know that he has the ability to chase down speedsters, cut through guys like cyborg, is fast enough to react to the flash, has weapons that hurt super meta humans as in superboy and supergirl and even ww, he has hung with WW for a few panels one on one, he is fast enough to dodge bullets like nothing etc etc
Originally posted by Marcus4600
^ What he did in IC was take down a good number of JLA members that could have taken him in a heartbeat. They outclassed him in every way, shape, and form, and he still won. It's on the Slade respect thread, and it's uber-jobbing.
First of all I'm the biggest Slade fan here and I alreayd said he can't beat Ben more often than not because unless he has some sort of weapon that he doens't norammly carry then he can't actuall y hurt ben but lets continue on to the whole IC fight not that Slade had prep
Flash: First from what I've seen unless Wally starts to rev himslef before he moves he needs space to move at the speed of light and even then he needs to be moving more or less in a straight line to get up to max in the shortest amount of time. Now in this fight not only was he moving in an S pattern just to get out from behind Ollie. Then he had to dodge around at least three explosions to get to Slade. Thats about 10 or so direction cahnges jus to get to the man so not only was he neot going full speed but he had to slow down even more to attack slade meaning he was probalby going about Kid Flash level speed. A speed Slade is quite comfortable with handling.
The only time I've seen Wally catch Slade in the open unprepared, he beat Slade within an inch of his life and that was in Deathstroke's own comic.
Also the only members there that could "taken him in a heartbeat" were the Flash, GL, and maybe Atom. Ollie, Canary, and Hawkman have been beaten before by Slade without prep.
Zatana could have taken him easy as well. Like GA said: "She could turn his blood to lava." Green Lantern's first reaction isn't punching someone. It's creating some sort of containment field, or something that would just own someone like Slade. Now, from when I've seen Slade tag Wally, it's been that he's either outsmarted him (which doesn't surprise me) or made sure that there was only 1 way for wally to hit him. I'm not downing his reflexes, but he's more of a battle savvy sort of fighter than anything else.
i would think that those uber grenades can hurt ben, and that staff, and other things he droped a building on aquaman if you all dont remeber. He also is a speedster not on par with flash but i never said that now did i, i said he was fast enough to see him i guess now he isnt whatever one of DC's lame excuses to make fast faster is that he has to run in a straight line????????? but ok whatever ben isnt the flash is he? Ben is not superboy or supergirl either, and he isnt aquaman or hawkman they couldnt avoid slades pumelings why would ben?