Thanks, Whirly.
Originally posted by Fishy
For the parents perhaps, but not for the child... He or she wanted to die to end the suffering, ergo death isn't worse for them.
As I just said, they are operating under the influence of erratic emotions.
From a logical, clear-minded point of view, death is clearly the worse option than being molested.
-AC
Originally posted by GCG
Simply ?My question was what do you do with the ones that dont meet your requirements correctly pointed by AC as "It seems he was asking that if you choose quality over quantity, what do you do with those who don't meet your quality ?"
So to recapitulate, in what context are the 'Quantity' ?
Bad People or Sick People ? (since the subject at matter is Paedophiles, I am assuming you meant paedophiles)
Secondly, If the two Paedophiles, were taught as kids themselves, that touching eachother up is OK, does that make them sick or bad ?
Thirdly, What if the two Paedophiles were molested themselves as kids and enjoyed it, and so no wrong in passing the baton to the next generation ? Are they Sick or are they Bad ?
1. I never said anything about requirements, I dunno where you came up with this idea that I have some kind of requirements that people need to meet before living. I still don't know why you even brought that up to me, it is irrelivent to what I said.
2. These theoretical scenarios simply don't work. They aren't taking place within a real world context and is you simply trying to make some point that has nothing to do with what I originally said. But, to answer your scenarios, that are very unlikely to ever take place in reality, they are both sick and bad. Even so, I'd rather two paedophiles/rapists, who pose a danger to society and have hurt others, die rather then an innocent woman. I'd rather get rid of two bad/dangerous people then one innocent person.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Thanks, Whirly.As I just said, they are operating under the influence of erratic emotions.
From a logical, clear-minded point of view, death is clearly the worse option than being molested.
-AC
No. You are assuming some absolute logic in human decisions. There isn't. Most people who chose death prefer it to living. They probably would prefer it to being raped as well.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No. You are assuming some absolute logic in human decisions. There isn't. Most people who chose death prefer it to living. They probably would prefer it to being raped as well.
Yes and choosing death to living ISN'T a logical decision is it? Whether you prefer it or not.
We went over this. Preferring the illogical to the logical does not make your choice a logical one.
Originally posted by soleran30
are they?is it?
Yes.
Yes.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes and choosing death to living ISN'T a logical decision is it? Whether you prefer it or not.We went over this. Preferring the illogical to the logical does not make your choice a logical one.
Yes.
Yes.
-AC
It certainly doesn't. Claiming your opinion is the logical one doesn'T make it that either, though.
I am wonderig how is it the logical thing anyways?
Originally posted by Bardock42
It certainly doesn't. Claiming your opinion is the logical one doesn'T make it that either, though.I am wonderig how is it the logical thing anyways?
Why do you insist on philosophising every single thing? Can you drop the pretention for a minute? Jesus.
No, claiming my opinion is the logical one doesn't make it so. Claiming that death is worse than being molested is what's logical. Choosing death over being molested is NOT logical, no matter how you look at it. You may PREFER the illogical (death) to the logical (molestation), but that doesn't mean you have made a logical decision. It means you've gone with illogical preference.
My point was aimed at those who claim to value life yet claim paedophilia is worse than murder or molestation is worse than death. I explained this to you yesterday.
I know you get hung up on being all "Everything is right, if you want it to be." just for the sake of debate, but this is pointless. You have said you don't value human life, so therefore this scenario and hypothetical situation is of no concern to you is it?
-AC
I;m not so sure you can call suicide illogical well at least not illogical to those doing it. To them I think it seems the most logical thing to do.
But yes at a macroscopic level it is something that should be prevented because there are definitely other options.
But I ask these 2 things:
Who is willingly going to spend a lot of time and effort to help people who suffer from extreme trauma and depression? My guess is not many unless the traumatized person has access to mucho dinero.
Also, I doubt people who want to commit suicide are going to seek out help.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why do you insist on philosophising every single thing? Can you drop the pretention for a minute? Jesus.No, claiming my opinion is the logical one doesn't make it so. Claiming that death is worse than being molested is what's logical. Choosing death over being molested is NOT logical, no matter how you look at it. You may PREFER the illogical (death) to the logical (molestation), but that doesn't mean you have made a logical decision. It means you've gone with illogical preference.
My point was aimed at those who claim to value life yet claim paedophilia is worse than murder or molestation is worse than death. I explained this to you yesterday.
I know you get hung up on being all "Everything is right, if you want it to be." just for the sake of debate, but this is pointless. You have said you don't value human life, so therefore this scenario and hypothetical situation is of no concern to you is it?
-AC
You are right now justifying your opinion by stating your opinion as truth. Not dying is the logical thing because living is logical.
You can't say what the logical decision is or isn't, if a person suffers then perhaps death is the logical solution to the problem as it would stop suffering.
Originally posted by meep-meep
I;m not so sure you can call suicide illogical well at least not illogical to those doing it. To them I think it seems the most logical thing to do.
Please, please read my posts.
They are operating from the point of view that is dictated by erratic and strong EMOTION. Emotion overrides logic.
Originally posted by meep-meep
Who is willingly going to spend a lot of time and effort to help people who suffer from extreme trauma and depression? My guess is not many unless they have mucho dinero.Also, I doubt people who want to commit suicide are going to seek out help.
I honestly don't know, that's too wide of a question for me alone to answer. I am not everyone. I help people I care about, friends, loved ones etc.
Originally posted by Fishy
You are right now justifying your opinion by stating your opinion as truth. Not dying is the logical thing because living is logical.
No more need be said then. Death isn't better than being molested. It's not the logical decision, it has greater consequences than being molested also, over MANY people. The worst that could happen from being molested? Depression leading to suicide. Suicide = death. Death = the worst ending possible in these scenarios.
Originally posted by Fishy
You can't say what the logical decision is or isn't, if a person suffers then perhaps death is the logical solution to the problem as it would stop suffering.
I can almost see the lack of understanding seeping through my monitor. So I'll say it again:
Just because you CHOOSE one over the other, it does not mean your choice is the logical one. You may PREFER death to molestation, but that is still an illogical choice.
-AC
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I think everyone involved in this thread is trying to split hairs into finding the best of two evils.Hurting an innocent person in any way is wrong. These two sex offenders were obviously not innocent. Keep focus on the issue of harming the innocent rather than finding innocence in the criminal.
Hurting any person in any way is wrong. It is not suddenly okay to hurt someone because he or she is a bad person. For example, we do not make exceptions for rapists who rape bad people. "You raped someone and now you have to be punished... oh, you raped a bad person? Well, I guess we can let you go." Idiocy.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Please, please read my posts.They are operating from the point of view that is dictated by erratic and strong EMOTION. Emotion overrides logic.-AC
Read MY third sentance and you will see I agreed. I'm just pointing out that to them it may seem the most logical thing to do. I'm not saying they are logical.
I honestly don't know, that's too wide of a question for me alone to answer. I am not everyone. I help people I care about, friends, loved ones etc.
-AC [/QUOTE]
Well, that's understandable.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Hurting any person in any way is wrong. It is not suddenly okay to hurt someone because he or she is a bad person. For example, we do not make exceptions for rapists who rape bad people. "You raped someone and now you have to be punished... oh, you raped a bad person? Well, I guess we can let you go." Idiocy.
Is somebody saying that a rapist or murderer HAS to be punsihed the same way or worse?
If someone were hurting you you wouldn't fight back because hurting a person in anyway is wrong?
Originally posted by Fishy
AC, its not the logical decision for you. But who are you to say what the logical decision is? Logical based on what? Why is continueing live more logical then dying? What makes you think your opinion is the logical one and the right one? Please explain your greater wisdom because I do not see it.
What do you mean logical based on what? Logical based on the notion that death isn't as bad as being molested. How about that? It's simple logic, it's not that hard.
You do not see why living is more logical than dying? THAT is something I don't see considering you previously said this:
Originally posted by Fishy
Not dying is the logical thing because living is logical.
You obviously know that choosing death over life is, regardless of emotionally fuelled preference, illogical. So why you insist on keeping up this image of it not being so is beyond MY understanding.
-AC
What do you mean logical based on what? Logical based on the notion that death isn't as bad as being molested. How about that? It's simple logic, it's not that hard.You do not see why living is more logical than dying? THAT is something I don't see considering you previously said this:
No, I don't always consider living more logical then killing yourself. Sometimes your live can suck so much or be so painful or you can have another damned good raeson to die, if you do then dying is the logical thing to do living isn't.
You obviously know that choosing death over life is, regardless of emotionally fuelled preference, illogical. So why you insist on keeping up this image of it not being so is beyond MY understanding.-AC
I said this to show your logic was bad, you think live is better then death because it is... Which isn't really an argument. Its like me saying a Ferrari is the most beautiful car in the world, because it is. No other oppinions are allowed.