Originally posted by Bardock42
No, it doesn't. What system are you going by? There's no reason to assume that it is logical. YOu just claim something that has no real point to back it up.
What do you mean no real point to back it up?
Let's look at scenarios, as I have posted before:
You get molested and left alive, right?
Your family are grateful and happy, friends are grateful and happy, there's a possibility you can go on to live your life well, you have the option to get professional aid if need be. All this, regardless of how sad YOU are, is much more of a logical choice than killing yourself.
You get molested and left alive, but choose suicide, right?
Family distraught, for life possibly. Friends also distraught, possibly for life also. This CAN lead to suicides too. You've ignored all possible avenues for help, ignored the factual possibilities that you could make the effort to move on due to being overcome with emotion and letting that be the decision maker. Solving problems you could overcome by killing yourself, leaving MANY people with a problem they will NEVER live without.
Take your pointless philosophising to the philosophy forum.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, it is just logical to you because you prefer it. That is NOT real logic though.
Hahahahahhaha.
-AC
Originally posted by Pandemoniac
Since when have humans based their decisicions on pure logics?
We have been unstable and questionalble for as long as we know, and the more whe know the more we hurt.
There is no perfect law for us, as we are motivated by both primitive emotions and attempts to wisdom.
Agreed only us Vulcans do that....
Live long and prosper. They agree with AC but...... Spock sacrificed himself, damn logic is a double edged sword isn't it?
Originally posted by Fishy
If you are suffering from disease for instance and you will die within two months according to half a dozen doctors and you will greatly suffer during those two months would it be logical to sit them out and suffer? Or would it be logical to just end it before it even starts?Logic is subjective, you think life is always better then death, this is not the case. There are plenty of exceptions.
You've gone off base. The original argument was death or molestation, and I have proven many times that death is worse.
Why you are now arguing life/death is silly.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What do you mean no real point to back it up?Let's look at scenarios, as I have posted before:
You get molested and left alive, right?
Your family are grateful and happy, friends are grateful and happy, there's a possibility you can go on to live your life well, you have the option to get professional aid if need be. All this, regardless of how sad YOU are, is much more of a logical choice than killing yourself.
You get molested and left alive, but choose suicide, right?
Family distraught, for life possibly. Friends also distraught, possibly for life also. This CAN lead to suicides too. You've ignored all possible avenues for help, ignored the factual possibilities that you could make the effort to move on due to being overcome with emotion and letting that be the decision maker. Solving problems you could overcome by killing yourself, leaving MANY people with a problem they will NEVER live without.
Take your pointless philosophising to the philosophy forum.
Hahahahahhaha.
-AC
Woah, you realize that your scenarios by default are subjective. You just made up one scenario. And I have no clue what you base your "logical" argument on. Certainly if human life is your highest value it is logical to prefer molestation. If on the other hand for example your virginity is your highest value you might prefer death. How can you not see that?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, you realize that your scenarios by default are subjective. You just made up one scenario. And I have no clue what you base your "logical" argument on. Certainly if human life is your highest value it is logical to prefer molestation. If on the other hand for example your virginity is your highest value you might prefer death. How can you not see that?
Exactly it's about relative value. Spock put others first.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, you realize that your scenarios by default are subjective. You just made up one scenario. And I have no clue what you base your "logical" argument on.
I'll show you...
Originally posted by Bardock42
Certainly if human life is your highest value it is logical to prefer molestation.
Precisely, that's the kind of people this whole debate was aimed at, for crying out loud. I told you this yesterday. It has NO bearing on you because you don't value human life. Therefore, being in this debate is pointless isn't it? It's not applicable to you.
Originally posted by Bardock42
If on the other hand for example your virginity is your highest value you might prefer death. How can you not see that?
That's nothing to do with anything is it? Seeing as I'm discussing with people who value life the highest.
Originally posted by Bardock42
You cannot prove that death is worse because it obviously isn't for everyone.
To people who value human life it should be. Which is who I am discussing with, which is what I told you yesterday, and you agreed with.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What do you mean no real point to back it up?Let's look at scenarios, as I have posted before:
You get molested and left alive, right?
Your family are grateful and happy, friends are grateful and happy, there's a possibility you can go on to live your life well, you have the option to get professional aid if need be. All this, regardless of how sad YOU are, is much more of a logical choice than killing yourself.
You get molested and left alive, but choose suicide, right?
Family distraught, for life possibly. Friends also distraught, possibly for life also. This CAN lead to suicides too. You've ignored all possible avenues for help, ignored the factual possibilities that you could make the effort to move on due to being overcome with emotion and letting that be the decision maker. Solving problems you could overcome by killing yourself, leaving MANY people with a problem they will NEVER live without.
Take your pointless philosophising to the philosophy forum.
Hahahahahhaha.
-AC
You are right now completely ignoring the victim of the crime. Sure the family could be thankfull he or she survived, but the victim? What about that person? Maybe for him or her live would be so terrible there would no real joy anymore and (s)he would just feel misserable all the time, some people can get bothered by this shit for years, never get into a relationship again or things like that. For them death would be an answer, it would stop all the problems and the terrible life they have.
Maybe it would even be better for the family's and friends as they would never see the same person again and instead just become depressed because of the victim.
These are hugely subjective events depending on a lot of things, and death in some cases for the victim and perhaps also for the family is the better answer.
That's nothing to do with anything is it? Seeing as I'm discussing with people who value life the highest.-AC
Then why the hell are you arguing that exact point with me and Bardock? When both of us figure that its a subjective thing?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll show you...Precisely, that's the kind of people this whole debate was aimed at, for crying out loud. I told you this yesterday. It has NO bearing on you because you don't value human life. Therefore, being in this debate is pointless isn't it? It's not applicable to you.
That's nothing to do with anything is it? Seeing as I'm discussing with people who value life the highest.
To people who value human life it should be. Which is who I am discussing with, which is what I told you yesterday, and you agreed with.
-AC
Yeah, so you acknowledge it is subjective. And is just applying to people that value life as the highest. Well, then this debate is over.
Originally posted by Fishy
You are right now completely ignoring the victim of the crime. Sure the family could be thankfull he or she survived, but the victim? What about that person? Maybe for him or her live would be so terrible there would no real joy anymore and (s)he would just feel misserable all the time, some people can get bothered by this shit for years, never get into a relationship again or things like that. For them death would be an answer, it would stop all the problems and the terrible life they have.
Zoom. Fishy, I'm over here...with my point. The point you missed.
That point being that regardless of how bad you feel, death/suicide has worse consequences, wider consequences than living and dealing with it (Which is ALWAYS a possibility). Not "The person has nothing wrong with them."
Originally posted by Fishy
Maybe it would even be better for the family's and friends as they would never see the same person again and instead just become depressed because of the victim.
Total horseshit.
Mum: I'm glad my son/daughter committed suicide. Now I don't have to get depressed around them, because of them.
Yeah, very likely.
Originally posted by Fishy
These are hugely subjective events depending on a lot of things, and death in some cases for the victim and perhaps also for the family is the better answer.
It's not, ever. See above. It's you struggling to stay in a debate.
Ironically, flopping like a fish in a net...Fishy.
-AC