based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marka_Ragnos
I don't know why everyone thinks Ragnos is so powerful. Granted I haven't actually read Tales, But it sounds as if he were more of a master manipulator, like Sidious, but without the Jedi as enemies.
Originally posted by docb77
based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marka_RagnosI don't know why everyone thinks Ragnos is so powerful. Granted I haven't actually read Tales, But it sounds as if he were more of a master manipulator, like Sidious, but without the Jedi as enemies.
Where does it say he sounds like a master manipulator?
Does the narrator describing him as "the most powerful of the most powerful" imply that he is a manipulator?
Does the narrator saying that he "ruled the galaxy with an iron fist" imply he manipulated? No, manipulators manuever, they do not rule with iron fists when there are other threats looming.
Does other individuals saying he had "immense strength and a frightening grasp of the dark side" indicate that he is a manipulator? No, look up the word "immense."
It was clear that he was powerful enough that Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh were not real threats, as they didn't even bother to attack him on his deathbed.
Yes, he was a master manipulator because Numan "I break COPPA rules" thinks so. Clearly we should all drop the case already!
Tell me, what evidence do you have for being a master manipulator?
Even your beloved wikipedia source says:
It is known that he was a champion warrior, possibly due to his mixed Sith/human ancestry, with a surpassing command of the dark side. He conquered and unified the Sith Empire in a brilliant and savage series of short campaigns
Yes, a "champion warrior" sure is only a manipulator, right?
Honestly, reading comprehension is your friend.
Read more closely, it also says that He stayed in power by pitting his opponents against each other, I didn't imply that he wasn't powerful, I just don't see where people are getting that he was the most powerful ever. If you know where I could get a TOTJ graphic novel to see for myself, I'd appreciate it.
Originally posted by docb77
Read more closely, it also says that He stayed in power by pitting his opponents against each other, I didn't imply that he wasn't powerful, I just don't see where people are getting that he was the most powerful ever. If you know where I could get a TOTJ graphic novel to see for myself, I'd appreciate it.
No, I guess "the most powerful of the most powerful" is just there for show.
He is also mentioned to have pitted his enemies against himself. As long as they did not attack the Republic, he achieved his goal. And I still don't get where you imply that manipulator and powerful are mutually exclusive. So I guess champion warrior, immense strength, ruling with an iron fist, and the most powerful of the most powerful really don't mean anything. He's just a manipulator after all, apparently even the narrator was manipulated.
Besides, using wikipedia as your primary source is arguing out of ignorance and talking out of your ass.
Originally posted by Illustrious
No, I guess "the most powerful of the most powerful" is just there for show.He is also mentioned to have pitted his enemies against himself. As long as they did not attack the Republic, he achieved his goal. And I still don't get where you imply that manipulator and powerful are mutually exclusive. So I guess champion warrior, immense strength, ruling with an iron fist, and the most powerful of the most powerful really don't mean anything. He's just a manipulator after all, apparently even the narrator was manipulated.
Besides, using wikipedia as your primary source is arguing out of ignorance and talking out of your ass.
Look, I never said that they were exclusive, I agree that he must have been powerful, it's the most powerful ever that I question.
next, where are you reading "the most powerful of the most powerful"? The closest I see is where it says what Ragnos might mean - "ruling powers". If it's coming from somewhere else could you provide a source?
Originally posted by docb77
Look, I never said that they were exclusive, I agree that he must have been powerful, it's the most powerful ever that I question.next, where are you reading "the most powerful of the most powerful"? The closest I see is where it says what Ragnos might mean - "ruling powers". If it's coming from somewhere else could you provide a source?
It's on the cover of the Golden Age of the Sith graphic novel as the author synopsis.
"Marka Ragnos ruled the galaxy with an iron fist. He was the Dark Lord of the Sith -- the most powerful of the most powerful."
That's pretty conclusive.
Considering that means he is at least significantly more powerful than guys like Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh, who are described and shown in later sources to be godlike in power, certainly speaks to his credit.
Originally posted by Wesker
I don't see how TOTJ is somehow less agreeable than DE or NJO.
Same, or DN for that matter. Actually I find TOTJ more agreeable than post-NJO characters. At least the majority of individuals are normal, with the elite standing above them because of circumstance. Post-NJO basically has about 501980310931 extraordinary situations that just simply isn't believable at all, even for SW.
Except Numan, its clear that you prefer Post ROTJ Characters so honestly your opinion doesnt count. Adding to that, Ragnos's Scepter is a symbolism of his power, as Kun's amulet was a symbol of Sadow's power.
Consider also it took PLANETS worth of the force to have a CHANCE of reviving Marka Ragnos, it implies great force potential, and an enormous power.
Numan, its clear what you see as proof is a battle of feat wars, the person with the most feats win. The typical reasoning of a 10 year old.
Originally posted by zod360
Quotes aren't really concrete evidence for Ragnos being as powerful as you make him out to be. For instance Uthar Wynn stated that Naga Sadow was the most powerful of all of the ancient sith.
It's not a quote. It's the narrator telling you this.
Read the comics before you talk out of your ass. Do you want to argue that Yoda is blue now?
Originally posted by w00t2112
Except Numan, its clear that you prefer Post ROTJ Characters so honestly your opinion doesnt count. Adding to that, Ragnos's Scepter is a symbolism of his power, as Kun's amulet was a symbol of Sadow's power.Consider also it took PLANETS worth of the force to have a CHANCE of reviving Marka Ragnos, it implies great force potential, and an enormous power.
Numan, its clear what you see as proof is a battle of feat wars, the person with the most feats win. The typical reasoning of a 10 year old.
Listen dude, I am in no way a fan of anything post ROTJ. I have said many times that my favorite time preiods are KOTOR and KOTOR2, the PT times and Darth Bane's times. I am also quite interested in the comics about Kun, Sunrider and Quel-Droma. And Ragnos and Sadow did not have to neccesarily be that strong in the force to create those artifacts, and it is more likely to assume that they were great alchemists because of those artifacts. And to add to your second point, it was not because of the fact that Ragnos had once been so strong in the force that it took the force power of dozens of planets, but because the revival of ANYONE is a very complex thing and Tavion was not particularly strong in the force herself.
Originally posted by Illustrious
Same, or DN for that matter. Actually I find TOTJ more agreeable than post-NJO characters. At least the [b]majority of individuals are normal, with the elite standing above them because of circumstance. Post-NJO basically has about 501980310931 extraordinary situations that just simply isn't believable at all, even for SW. [/B]
Definately. At least the Sith had lots of conflict, competition, and centuries to perfect their mastery of the force to dominate others. NJO "We inherited the Jedi title after the last one died" wannabes shouldn't be nearly as powerful.