Marka Ragnos

Originally posted by w00t2112
Indeed, but you absoletely need, concrete evidence to decide something, its as though seeing is believing, so by saying feats, i meant feats that depict someone destroyed something or controlling and etc.

Might i ask why you think Ragnos is as weak as you perceive? Honestly diplomacy and friendship was non existent within the Ancient Sith, in every aspect the Sith are the complete counterpart of the Jedi.

The Ancient Sith respected pure power and brute strength, they see the strongest should rule, and in the own interests, when they can they immediately overthrow the current Dark Lord, Ragnos, living in a time period of Star throwings and superb duelist, was able to keep rule until his dying breath.

At any point, Sadow and/or Kressh would've taken an oppurtunity to overthrow Ragnos, yet they recognised their powers weaker, with Simus, Sadow's Master and mentor, being curbstomped by Ragnos.

And for your long belief of Ragnos being only respected for intelligence and a political leader, that is utter bullshit, the Sith consider diplomacy trash, only Sidious recognised its true importance, however the Sith prior to him, thought of only power and strength, and that to them was the path to victory. Ragnos held no different view, he was described to have turned his enemies on others, including himself, as well as a champion warrior with a surpassing and frightening grasp on the Dark side.

By all that everyone knows and have said about Ragnos, he is the strongest of the most powerful force users ever. Its unlikely any Force User except for Nihilus has even the slightest chance against him.

That's not true. I always use logical deduction myself and do not need direct concrete proof. The fact is I do not agree with the "Logical" deduction used for Ragnos' and believe that there is not enough material to say that he is the most powerful of the most powerful and believe there are many greater then him such as Sadow and many lightsaber wielders. I have said before that when in 1 on 1 battles, it almost always ends up as a melee duel. This is shown through Kressh's and Sadow's duel, and it it very logical to assume that Ragnos defeated Simus in a swordfight and cut off his head. I believe that someone like Ragnos would be ideal for Yoda for example. If it were to go a melee duel, he would be able to use his size and speed against Ragnos for instance and I don't think Ragnos would even be able to get anywhere near him.

I love how you claim to use logic, but you don't even know the meaning of the word.

Originally posted by zod360
That's not true. I always use logical deduction myself and do not need direct concrete proof. The fact is I do not agree with the "Logical" deduction used for Ragnos' and believe that there is not enough material to say that he is the most powerful of the most powerful and believe there are many greater then him such as Sadow and many lightsaber wielders. I have said before that when in 1 on 1 battles, it almost always ends up as a melee duel. This is shown through Kressh's and Sadow's duel, and it it very logical to assume that Ragnos defeated Simus in a swordfight and cut off his head. I believe that someone like Ragnos would be ideal for Yoda for example. If it were to go a melee duel, he would be able to use his size and speed against Ragnos for instance and I don't think Ragnos would even be able to get anywhere near him.

Your belief is wrong, if Sadow was superior to him, why did he not kill him? If Kressh was superior to him, why did he not kill him? Indeed, but yoda, is an ant to Ragnos, someone that Ragnos would crush with the force, and typically, one on one are usually fought between Jedi/Sith that are equal, as far as we know, Ragnos had none, Sadow and Kressh, were never described as a "champion warrior with a surpassing knowledge in the dark side" Every single sith/jedi of their time are described as such, with Ragnos reigning and being the most powerful, of the most powerful era, notice that Revan and Kun were also described as immense in power, because they were infact the greatest of their respective times.

However, whilst i've given reasons, you have stated your opinion without any proof whatsoever, your logic is simply giving your opinion, which to the general public is not logic, but a biased comment.

It is not logical to assume that Kressh and Sadow didn't kill him or challenge him only because they were terrified of him and therefor less powerful. I only use logic when talking about this. If Ragnos was so elite, then why did Simus challenge him? It is easy to tell from Kressh's character in the golden age of the sith that he did not even care about power that much, and only cared about what was best for the sith empire. They might have thought of him the best military leader for example, and that could have been why nobody ever challenged him. This is just one explanation of many that goes against anything that shows Ragnos was superior.

Originally posted by zod360
It is not logical to assume that Kressh and Sadow didn't kill him or challenge him only because they were terrified of him and therefor less powerful. I only use logic when talking about this. If Ragnos was so elite, then why did Simus challenge him? It is easy to tell from Kressh's character in the golden age of the sith that he did not even care about power that much, and only cared about what was best for the sith empire. They might have thought of him the best military leader for example, and that could have been why nobody ever challenged him. This is just one explanation of many that goes against anything that shows Ragnos was superior.

Kressh didn't want power, he was challenging Sadow for it, yes Ragnos someone who fought no wars outside of any Sith, a great military leader, what a logical assumption, the Sith dont have unity, you have not proved that the Sith respect it, "It is easy to tell" That is pure speculation you have formed in your mind. Numan, get it straight, from examples shown throughout the Sith history, only the strongest rule, when one weaken, his/her apprentice usurps the role of Dark Lord of the Sith. You only use logic? Where is your logic, you have given nothing but speculation and pure assumption, that is not logic, that is purely your biased opinion. In your entire posts, you have not provided a shred of evidence going against Ragnos being the Strongest ever.

"It is not logic to assume Kressh and Sadow didn't kill him or challenge him because they were terrified of him"
Except no other Dark Lord has ever died of natural causes, except that a Ragnos on his death bed, still stirred no movement in Sadow or Kressh. Sadow and Kressh, both pure bloods hated Ragnos, they neither respected him nor looked up to him, they only feared and respected his FORCE POWERS and PHYSICAL STRENGTH.

" They might have thought him the best military leader "
Notice how you say might, the possiblity of that is 0, if you understand SW then you understand the Sith only let the strongest Rule "

"Why did Simus Challenge him "
Why wouldn't he? Perhaps he thought he could usurp the title and take control of the Sith Empire, remember none of the Sith agreed with the fact that Ragnos was a half bred, made him even less popular. It was with his iron fist that he ruled the Sith

"That's just one explanation of many going against Ragnos being superior"
Except all you have shown is purely your illogical opinion and speculation. You have provided no proof, no evidence to deny Ragnos being the strongest, note how you say many, unless you can state LOGICAL and RATIONAL proof, drop the case.

Btw you have not rebutted any of my earlier points.

From what I've read, in addition to being Powerful, Ragnos played his opponents off of each other. When would Sadow or Kresh go after Ragnos when they were too busy with each other. Ragnos must have made sure it was that way. This doesn't mean that Ragnos wasn't powerful, just that he was smart enough to avoid battles that he didn't need to fight. It also means that his power is not very quantifiable. He could have been lots more powerful than Sadow or just a little more, I gather that he didn't care because he could just get Sadow angry at someone else.

"Why did Simus Challenge him "

Why wouldn't he? Perhaps he thought he could usurp the title and take control of the Sith Empire, remember none of the Sith agreed with the fact that Ragnos was a half bred, made him even less popular. It was with his iron fist that he ruled the Sith

Ragnos challenged and destroyed Simus, Simus did not challenge Ragnos. For as far as I know nobody ever challenged Ragnos in a 1 on 1 fight and lived to tell the tale, Simus lived because Ragnos probably thought he had his uses to the Sith and him in particulair.

Btw you have not rebutted any of my earlier points.

And you won't... Don't wait for it, it will never happen.

Originally posted by docb77
From what I've read, in addition to being Powerful, Ragnos played his opponents off of each other. When would Sadow or Kresh go after Ragnos when they were too busy with each other. Ragnos must have made sure it was that way. This doesn't mean that Ragnos wasn't powerful, just that he was smart enough to avoid battles that he didn't need to fight. It also means that his power is not very quantifiable. He could have been lots more powerful than Sadow or just a little more, I gather that he didn't care because he could just get Sadow angry at someone else.

No, he pitted enemies against himself as well as others, because, his goal was to stop the Sith from attacking the Republic, and surely when a leader consistently pitts rivals against each other, theres a probability of both the rivals taking on Ragnos.

Thanks for the information on Simus Fishy, lol is Numan that shit?

Part I: A Golden Age
Time frame: 5,000 B.B.Y.
Period name: The Great Hyperspace War

It is a time of great expansion in the Old Republic. The JEDI KNIGHTS continue to shine a light of hope into the dark unexplored areas of the galaxy, and the mapping of hyperspace is encouraged and trade routes are discovered; many by intrepid explorers like plucky siblings GAV and JORI DARAGON, who plot uncharted courses in their ship Starbreaker 12. Meanwhile, on the far side of the galaxy, the Sith Empire has grown powerful through centuries of dark Force wielding and magic and the hundred-year rule of the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith, MARKA RAGNOS. The ruler's death leads to a power vacuum, and two leaders emerge at Ragnos' grave on the mausoleum planet of Korriban. After a bloody duel, NAGA SADOW and LUDO KRESSH's fight for destiny is interrupted with the unannounced arrival of Starbreaker 12, and the hapless Daragons are captured immediately.

An extract from starwars.com, notice how they say the GREATEST DARK LORD OF THE SITH, and that his death lead to a power vacuum.

Greatest at the time.

He's not the greatest Sith Lord, hell, he didn't even attack the Republic! He was freaking content with his own small Empire. Just because he's strong don't mean he's great.

Sidious is still the greatest ever IMO.

Originally posted by zod360
Greatest at the time.

Except they never stated it was of HIS time, it simply States he is the Greatest Sith Lord in terms of Power

Sidious is the greatest by the fact he conquered the galaxy and not because he was stronger than Ragnos.

EDIT: Even then, it puts him above Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh, with Sadow's power overshadowing any other known powers.

Except for Kresh and Simus...

Yea, however Ragnos curbstomped Simus and Sadow stalemated Kressh.

Add to the fact Simus is likely to be stronger than Sadow...due to the fact Ragnos deemed him strong enough to be a threat. One of the reasons why Ragnos challenged him.

Originally posted by zod360
It is not logical to assume that Kressh and Sadow didn't kill him or challenge him only because they were terrified of him and therefor less powerful. I only use logic when talking about this. If Ragnos was so elite, then why did Simus challenge him? It is easy to tell from Kressh's character in the golden age of the sith that he did not even care about power that much, and only cared about what was best for the sith empire. They might have thought of him the best military leader for example, and that could have been why nobody ever challenged him. This is just one explanation of many that goes against anything that shows Ragnos was superior.

Yes, there is no evidence, except for the fact that the narrator says it implicitly. Look up those words if you are confused. If the narrator says Yoda is green, he's green.

You arguing that there's no evidence that Ragnos was stronger than Sadow is like arguing Yoda was really blue. Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh even bowed to his spirit.

You're arguments are all rehashed bullshit. Good job being either an idiot or a troll.

Originally posted by w00t2112
Except they never stated it was of HIS time, it simply States he is the Greatest Sith Lord in terms of Power

Sidious is the greatest by the fact he conquered the galaxy and not because he was stronger than Ragnos.

EDIT: Even then, it puts him above Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh, with Sadow's power overshadowing any other known powers.

In the way its said in that, it does mean in his time.

Not like it matters, in his time is very clear and with what we see Sadow and Kressh do we know he's freaking powerful. It would only leave 2 possible people that would be able to beat him

Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall, and i'm only saying those two because we know jack shit about them, so maybe they could become the uber shit but I doubt it. Pall might have a good chance though.

Agreed.

maybe ragnos was BFFL's with kressh and sadow

or maybe he was a weak ass short piece of shit, with some crazy ass body guards that did his dirty work (simus). we really dont know. im also in agreement with docb on this one