Marka Ragnos

Originally posted by vpokdekjyafmidp
or maybe he was a weak ass short piece of shit, with some crazy ass body guards that did his dirty work (simus). we really dont know. im also in agreement with docb on this one

And Yoda is blue...

Do you even know who the narrator is?

In the way its said in that, it does mean in his time.

Not like it matters, in his time is very clear and with what we see Sadow and Kressh do we know he's freaking powerful. It would only leave 2 possible people that would be able to beat him

Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall, and i'm only saying those two because we know jack shit about them, so maybe they could become the uber shit but I doubt it. Pall might have a good chance though.

Fishy, he was the Dark Lord of the Sith (emphasis TOTJ). Out of all the Dark Lords in the history of the Sith Empire, he was singular.

I'm not sure about your grasp of the English language, but when they use a term like "the," it refers to a singular sense -- that particular one. So when it says "the most powerful of the most powerful," there is not much room to argue. There are two definitives in that sentence. Even if you want to argue it was over the course of a certain time frame, it was still the golden age.

yeah, but that could mean power to manipulate his enemies like docb said

I hadn't actually thought of this when I posted before, but if you can completely control -throught the force or other means - your opponents it really doesn't matter if the other guy can blow up a star by thinking about it. Just because you won't let him. I gotta admit that even if that was what was happening Ragnos would be crazy powerful, but I have read that he was a great warrior too.

So while I still am hesitant about saying that he was the most powerful force user ever, there is a case to be made for it.

Originally posted by vpokdekjyafmidp
yeah, but that could mean power to manipulate his enemies like docb said

No it couldn't. Not only are you speculating on the meaning of powerful now, you're going outright against the narration and of various quotes in later sources which proclaim definitively Ragnos' power.

In fact, the only thing that is being thrown here is assumption, "welll Ragnos may have been a diplomat!!!11!"

No, I'd take the word of the narrator and various other quotes over the random speculation of "he must have been just a manipulator!"

Never said "just" a manipulator. That is one of the tricks in his bag however.

well, i would say we really dont know enough about him. im not saying to use feats. but in order to determine his power, we need a balance between both feats, and what people have said.

it would be great if star wars had a rating system for their characters like other comics do

Originally posted by vpokdekjyafmidp
well, i would say we really dont know enough about him. im not saying to use feats. but in order to determine his power, we need a balance between both feats, and what people have said.

it would be great if star wars had a rating system for their characters like other comics do

It's not "what people have said." It's what the narrator says. If the narrator says Yoda is Green, he is green. The narrator said he is (definitively) the most powerful of the most powerful. Arguing against what the narrator says is akin to arguing that Yoda is blue.

No Illustrious, saying that Ragnos is not the most powerful force user of all time and saying that Yoda is blue is not the same thing. We have 100% proof that Yoda is green, however the only real evidence for Ragnos is what the narrator of the comic said. His word is not law. The ancient sith only really had powers of huge scale destruction. It would be like giving a guy an atomic bomb to use in a cage fight. The sith magics seem to be very powerful in terms of huge scale attacks, and so by performing such acts (like blowing up stars), it does not saying anything about the power of the wielder and more about how destructive sith magics are. And seeing as how they would not really help in 1 on 1 battles, teh ancient sith don't really have anything.

Originally posted by Illustrious
And Yoda is blue...

Do you even know who the narrator is?

Fishy, he was the Dark Lord of the Sith (emphasis TOTJ). Out of all the Dark Lords in the history of the Sith Empire, he was singular.

I'm not sure about your grasp of the English language, but when they use a term like "the," it refers to a singular sense -- that particular one. So when it says "[b]the most powerful of the most powerful," there is not much room to argue. There are two definitives in that sentence. Even if you want to argue it was over the course of a certain time frame, it was still the golden age. [/B]

Well it doesn't say ever so it likely does refer to a certain time frame... That time frame.

And the golden age is the greatest age of the Empire not necessarily the age that brought forward the most powerful ever, just a lot of really damned uber powerful Sith with great knowledge, it doesn't mean that there never was anybody that could have been more powerful although there isn't any evidence for that. And I certainly don't think anybody ever was more powerful then Marka Ragnos, but I just said that both Pall and Tulak would have a chance because we know jack shit about them except for the fact that they were Dark Lord. Pall his spirit at least is still pretty damned impressive 21.000 years after his death... No other Spirit has ever managed to do that.

But again I am not claiming anybody is more powerful then Ragnos and I don't believe it, and I don't really feel like getting into another useless debate about this.

How do you really think Ragnos would even defeat someone like Yoda. He wouldn't be able to crush him with the force like you have already said. Think back to the book Shadow Hunter when Darsha Assant (I think that's her name) mentions that her master used to force throw boulders with ease, yet struggled to lift up pebbles. The sith magics were clearly able to amplify the FORCE POWER of the user to perform extremely distructive powers such as blowing up stars, but FORCE CONTROL is vital for performing destructive force powers in a small scale, and seeing as there is no evidence of the sith having great control over the force and no evidence that the sith magics amplifying that aspect of the force, I am inclined to believe that the ancient sith would be able to do anything special in a 1 on 1 battle. The fact that the most powerful sith magic that can be used in small fights was Kun's amulet kind of helps my point. It also explains why Naga Sadow resorted to a swordfight with Ludo Kressh when he wanted to be the dark lord. Yet when he was in his ship, he used his destructive sith magic.

Originally posted by zod360
How do you really think Ragnos would even defeat someone like Yoda. He wouldn't be able to crush him with the force like you have already said. Think back to the book Shadow Hunter when Darsha Assant (I think that's her name) mentions that her master used to force throw boulders with ease, yet struggled to lift up pebbles. The sith magics were clearly able to amplify the FORCE POWER of the user to perform extremely distructive powers such as blowing up stars, but FORCE CONTROL is vital for performing destructive force powers in a small scale, and seeing as there is no evidence of the sith having great control over the force and no evidence that the sith magics amplifying that aspect of the force, I am inclined to believe that the ancient sith would be able to do anything special in a 1 on 1 battle. The fact that the most powerful sith magic that can be used in small fights was Kun's amulet kind of helps my point. It also explains why Naga Sadow resorted to a swordfight with Ludo Kressh when he wanted to be the dark lord. Yet when he was in his ship, he used his destructive sith magic.

What the? Do you have any prove for that first statement?

And that amulet in the hands of Kun who wasn't as old as experienced or as impresssive as Sadow that amulet was damned impressive, Sadow created the damned thing it would have been far more impressive in his hands. It would completely destroy Yoda...

and of course Sadow didn't use Sith magic against Kressh, Kressh wasn't weak it wouldn't have worked they needed to fight it out with a sword and with the force, in a 1 on 1 fight on small scale, thats the only way he could prove to be more powerful.

Originally posted by Fishy
What the? Do you have any prove for that first statement?

And that amulet in the hands of Kun who wasn't as old as experienced or as impresssive as Sadow that amulet was damned impressive, Sadow created the damned thing it would have been far more impressive in his hands. It would completely destroy Yoda...

and of course Sadow didn't use Sith magic against Kressh, Kressh wasn't weak it wouldn't have worked they needed to fight it out with a sword and with the force, in a 1 on 1 fight on small scale, thats the only way he could prove to be more powerful.

If so then how comes Kress was not able to defend against Sadow's use of the force in their space battle. And the first statement was really one I was not using in the debate.

And I want to see prove for it.

And how come? Because there were other things going on, and how did Sadow use the force to destroy Kressh anyways? He send a ship to crash with Kressh his ship blowing them both up, thats what he did.

Did he not blow up a star with his lightning?

Well if it was to come down to a melee duel, tiny Yoda would be able to use his own size and Ragnos' size against Ragnos. He would be able to completely outduel him.

Originally posted by Illustrious
It's not "what people have said." It's what the narrator says. If the narrator says Yoda is Green, he is green. The narrator said he is (definitively) the most powerful of the most powerful. Arguing against what the narrator says is akin to arguing that Yoda is blue.

i know that statement was a little off. i mean "people" including the narrator, and things like kreia saying that tulak hord was the greatest duelist ever. and is the narrator even completely omniscent?

Originally posted by vpokdekjyafmidp
i know that statement was a little off. i mean "people" including the narrator, and things like kreia saying that tulak hord was the greatest duelist ever. and is the narrator even completely omniscent?

Seeing as he created them, yes he is.

Although they sometimes do talk in hyperbole... But when they say something like that, it can be seen as 100% true.

Originally posted by zod360
Well if it was to come down to a melee duel, tiny Yoda would be able to use his own size and Ragnos' size against Ragnos. He would be able to completely outduel him.

Logic in a sense, as Ragnos is likely a gigantic giant and Yoda a small furry animal, however its doubtful Yoda will even be able to hurt him, you remember i provided proof Ragnos was atleast the Strongest of HIS Time, which puts him far above the REST of the ANCIENT SITH.

Yoda's force ability is not even close to Sadow's and the amulet blasts that Kun used are proof that the Ancients were adept at both types of combat whether close or widespread destruction.

Originally posted by zod360
No Illustrious, saying that Ragnos is not the most powerful force user of all time and saying that Yoda is blue is not the same thing. We have 100% proof that Yoda is green, however the only real evidence for Ragnos is what the narrator of the comic said. His word is not law. The ancient sith only really had powers of huge scale destruction. It would be like giving a guy an atomic bomb to use in a cage fight. The sith magics seem to be very powerful in terms of huge scale attacks, and so by performing such acts (like blowing up stars), it does not saying anything about the power of the wielder and more about how destructive sith magics are. And seeing as how they would not really help in 1 on 1 battles, teh ancient sith don't really have anything.

What are the Amulet Blasts? Kreia's instakill? Those attacks all originated from the Ancient Sith, meaning that the Ancient were adept at 1 on 1 fights. Hell, the PT Jedi had nothing more than force push, force pull, mind trick, lightning and grip, does that mean its all they can use? No, just as with the Ancient Sith, they are likely to know the techniques of the your average Dark Lord of the Sith such as Revan, however they never really engaged in a duel with an equal, there was only one example: Kressh and Sadow. And what of Ragnos's Scepter? Its clear that can be used in 1 on 1 combat, and its also likely it'll completely make a living thing deviod of the force.

i bet if sadow and kressh worked together, they could kick ragnos's ass but they were idiots. but then again, ragnos had the military force. if kressh or sadow flat out killed him, they would get no support from the military, therefore leaving the empire prone to attack. this can be compared to the roman empire. with marius, who had the military support. his apprentice sulla was looking to overthrow him, yet if he flat our killed him, everyone would hate him and he would get no support. first he had to gain the support of the military. he then proceeded to battle marius, and eventually defeated him. proving that he had the greater military mind, therefore earning the support of the military. in my mind this "kressh and sadow didnt kill him because they were afraid of him" stuff doesnt really go down in terms of personal power.