Is Bush The Worst U.S. President Ever?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, there is no international law having to do with lying, beyond what is written in treaties. If what you say is true, then WWII was illegal. The president of the US told the world a lie just before D-day. It is common for leaders to lie to the public during a time of war to insure the success on the battle field.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
[B]We are talking about international law. The constitution only says who has the authority to go to war, and that is the congress of the US. We are not currently at war, and the Iraq war is a UN and Nato war.

lmao. What the **** do you think we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? We're at war buddy. I'm not sure what you would label it. It's illegal just like every other conflict/war we've been involved with over the last fifty some years since WW2. Only Congress can Declare War. When the President of the United States can put troops wherever he pleases (and dying is involved obviously), the notion of a Republic goes right out the ****ing window.

Originally posted by Devil King
Then 99% of the modern government is unlawful, on which many rely.

Originally posted by Devil King
What was the outcome of 9/11? Did it serve the peple or the greater good, or did it serve the major corporations that actually benefitted?

Originally posted by BigRed
We did break international law invading Iraq. It was against the UN. Although, to be honest, I could care less about the UN.

Please tell me the international law that the US broke.

Originally posted by BigRed
I care more about domestic law and our Constitution than the UN or international law. But that being said, we went into Iraq under UN resolutions. That is bullshit. American lives should not be killed to reinforce UN resolutions.

You maybe right, but it is still not illegal.

Originally posted by BigRed
lmao. What the **** do you think we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? We're at war buddy. I'm not sure what you would label it. It's illegal just like every other conflict/war we've been involved with over the last fifty some years since WW2. Only Congress can Declare War. When the President of the United States can put troops wherever he pleases (and dying is involved obviously), the notion of a Republic goes right out the ****ing window.

What the US is doing now is no different from what the US did before WWI. Take a moment and review US history. Also, you have not shown me what laws were broken.

What we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is isolating Iran.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is isolating Iran.

LOL

elaborate please

Originally posted by inimalist
LOL

elaborate please

What did we do in WWII? Russia invaded Germany from Poland and the US and allies invaded from France. How is France, Germany and Poland similar to Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please tell me the international law that the US broke.

You maybe right, but it is still not illegal.

What the US is doing now is no different from what the US did before WWI. Take a moment and review US history. Also, you have not shown me what laws were broken.

What we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is isolating Iran.

Ok fine. **** illegal. It was uncalled for, illegitmate, orchestrated, deceptive - all those things, but not illegal.

Guess it's cool then. 💃

Originally posted by chithappens
Ok fine. **** illegal. It was uncalled for, illegitimate, orchestrated, deceptive - all those things, but not illegal.

Guess it's cool then. 💃

I never said it was cool. I said it was not illegitimate. I have a very cynical out look on politics. It's all normal.

lol

elaborate a bit more, I don't quite get you. Are you saying that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were planned in order to geographically isolate Iran?

I would add another "very" if I were you

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please tell me the international law that the US broke.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
[B]What the US is doing now is no different from what the US did before WWI. Take a moment and review US history. Also, you have not shown me what laws were broken.

What we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is isolating Iran.

We helped Iran. Do you not realize that? By wiping Saddam off the map and taking control of Iraq, we have helped Iran.

Besides, Iran has every right to be pissed off at us.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

elaborate a bit more, I don't quite get you. Are you saying that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were planned in order to geographically isolate Iran?

Well, I believe the war started in 1979, and Iran is the real target. It seems that the Pentagon is using the same strategy they used in WWII, and that is why it is not working.

I can't elaborate any more then that. I don't have any insider information. I said, shortly after 9-11, that Iran would be the ultimate target. It is yet to be seen if I am right.

Besides, even if the Iraq War wasn't technically illegal under whatever circumstances. It is still wrong. We invaded a country that had nothing to do with anything (especially and more specifically 9/11). We killed innocent civillians for nothing. And now we are trying to build a nation and bring stability to a region that has never been stable. Look at history. You don't think nations have come in there trying to stabilize that reigion? Britian tried. They failed. We're trying. We'll continue to fail until we realize it won't work and get the **** out.

For godsakes, the very proponents of this war, about a decade before it happened, so nation-building was dumb and ridiculous for the United States to undertake. So now here they are with the power and look what they are doing: nation-building. They blasted Clinton for doing it and now they are doing it.

**** Republicans and **** Democrats.

Originally posted by BigRed
Article 2(4) of the U.N. Charter. Which prohibits any nation from using force against another. The charter allows for only two exceptions to this rule: when force is required in self-defense (Article 51) or when the Security Council authorizes the use of force to protect international peace and security (Chapter VII).

In 1990 Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq is the nation that violated that law.

Originally posted by BigRed
It is in my book (which is the Constitution) because we went in under UN Resolutions and UN this and UN that and it had nothing to do with our national security or any type of threat to the United States and most important, a declaration of war as designated by the Constitution which is the rule of law in the United States of America. So if we are engaging in a battle with another country without that declaration of war designated by the Constitution, we are at war illegally.

Not a single Indian war was declared by Congress.

Originally posted by BigRed
Yea, I'm sure we'll be invading Iran soon. Probably Pakistan as well. Who knows, maybe we'll just decide to go after North Korea too. Heck, Castro just resigned, why not finally invade and take over Cuba?

Whatever…

Originally posted by BigRed
We helped Iran. Do you not realize that? By wiping Saddam off the map and taking control of Iraq, we have helped Iran.

Saddam worked for us…

Originally posted by BigRed
Besides, Iran has every right to be pissed off at us.

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

Originally posted by BigRed
Besides, even if the Iraq War wasn't technically illegal under whatever circumstances. It is still wrong. We invaded a country that had nothing to do with anything (especially and more specifically 9/11). We killed innocent civillians for nothing. And now we are trying to build a nation and bring stability to a region that has never been stable. Look at history. You don't think nations have come in there trying to stabilize that reigion? Britian tried. They failed. We're trying. We'll continue to fail until we realize it won't work and get the **** out.

For godsakes, the very proponents of this war, about a decade before it happened, so nation-building was dumb and ridiculous for the United States to undertake. So now here they are with the power and look what they are doing: nation-building. They blasted Clinton for doing it and now they are doing it.

**** Republicans and **** Democrats.

You can Never get world peace through politics. World peace only comes from individual happiness.

So what is you're point? We invaded Iraq now. We are just as guilty as charged.

You keep bringing up this, "Well back then they did this or that." That doesn't negate what they are doing now as "right". It was wrong back then as well. The US has only declared War five times. Five times. But we've been in "wars/conflicts" almost two hundred times. Ridiculous.

Yea and look how that philosophy of foreign policy worked out for us. bin Laden use to work for us as well. He was a "freedom fight". Let me go laugh for a few minutes.

I know, I just decided to bring it up...

World Peace is not really attainable just yet. Humans haven't reached that sophistication yet. Doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it. If we changed our foreign policy (the United States), it would go a long, LONG way towards peace in the world.

Originally posted by BigRed
So what is you're point? We invaded Iraq now. We are just as guilty as charged.

Guilty of what? You have to have a law that is broken to be guilty of something.

Originally posted by BigRed
You keep bringing up this, "Well back then they did this or that." That doesn't negate what they are doing now as "right". It was wrong back then as well. The US has only declared War five times. Five times. But we've been in "wars/conflicts" almost two hundred times. Ridiculous.

I never said what we are doing is right.

Originally posted by BigRed
Yea and look how that philosophy of foreign policy worked out for us. bin Laden use to work for us as well. He was a "freedom fight". Let me go laugh for a few minutes.

I never said that what we are doing is smart.

Originally posted by BigRed
I know, I just decided to bring it up...

My point is: It’s not illegal. Maybe it should be, but that has never been the case in world history.

What do you not understand here? You said, "Show me the international law they broke." I showed you. You said, "In 1990, Iraq invaded Kuwait." I said, by logic, if Iraq broke the aformentioned law by invading Kuwait, isn't the United States breaking a law by invading Iraq now? You said, "Guilty of what? You have to have a law that is broken to be guilty of something."

What are you not getting? I can't explain this any better:

There is an international law orchastrated by the UN (and the US is the prime member of the UN) that states, "You can't invade countries unless for self-defense or authorized by the Security Council." You clearly said Iraq invading Kuwait broke that law. So the US invading Iraq NOW is breaking international law.

Whew.

Originally posted by BigRed
What do you not understand here? You said, "Show me the international law they broke." I showed you. You said, "In 1990, Iraq invaded Kuwait." I said, by logic, if Iraq broke the aformentioned law by invading Kuwait, isn't the United States breaking a law by invading Iraq now? You said, "Guilty of what? You have to have a law that is broken to be guilty of something."

What are you not getting? I can't explain this any better:

There is an international law orchastrated by the UN (and the US is the prime member of the UN) that states, "You can't invade countries unless for self-defense or authorized by the Security Council." You clearly said Iraq invading Kuwait broke that law. So the US invading Iraq NOW is breaking international law.

Whew.

No, the Iraq war was an extension of the 1990 Gulf War. Regardless of what the government told you, as far as the legal aspect is concerned, Iraq broke the peace treaty they signed at the end of the Gulf War. That gave us the legal right to invade Iraq.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, the Iraq war was an extension of the 1990 Gulf War. Regardless of what the government told you, as far as the legal aspect is concerned, Iraq broke the peace treaty they signed at the end of the Gulf War. That gave us the legal right to invade Iraq.

And yet they never mentioned it while trying to convince folk to go into Iraq. Stop going in circles.

Originally posted by BigRed

**** Republicans and **** Democrats.

Don't really care much about your stand in the war. But I agree with you there...

You know who Kofi Annan is? He is the Secretary General of the United Nations and said, "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the U.N. charter. From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."

And I didn't find anything on Iraq "violating a peace treaty". Allegations were made that they violated the 1991 aggrement in "building weapons of mass destruction", but of course that was all a lie and deception brought to you by the Bush Administration. They ceased building WMD's in 1991 (which falls in line with respect to the agreement).

You can do you're own research if you want. But from all I've done, most experts, UN members and most of the world agree that it was an act of aggression and an invasion and violated international law.

Furtheremore and more importantly in my own opinion, it violates domestic law (the Constitution).

Bush and his cronies should be locked up. No joke.