Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jun is saying that the Spectre IS literally God.Im saying the Spectre is empowered by God.
Is Logoz God? If not and Logoz is only a part, id agree with this said by Juntai.
"The Spectre is Logoz attached to a soul.
The Logoz is a piece of God. A thought in the creators mind. A physical manifestation of it's will.
The host is a human soul."
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe Wrath is just a perception. It has been shown on panel to exist fully without Spectre, hell in issue 3 before it got loose, it was trapped in a spell, until it was free.. meanwhile Hal went around being Spectre... The Logoz exists when it doesn't. It declared it was FREE of it's tyranny, The Wrath is not The Logoz, it is NOT the piece of God in this eqation. The Logoz even told us The Wrath only exists because humanty believes it does. The Logoz is a piece of God, a thought in the creators mind. It also told us this itself. It is a piece of the grander whole.
The Logos is not a creation of God. The Logos IS God. The Logos is the Word, its an aspect of God.The Spectre is NOT the Logos attached to a soul. The Spectre of Vol 4 was a soul connected to the Logos. Past Spectres before havent been like that and the Wrath on its own was referred to as Spectre in Days Of Vengeance.
The Wrath is a piece of God. It is Aztar transformed into the embodiment of Gods Wrath by the Logos as we actually saw and as stated in Vol 3. In issue 4 vol 4 the Wrath said its form was dictated by the universe and Hal saw beyond the Wrath and found out the true nature of the Spectre. It is an agent of the Logos and it is the Logos that empowers it.
Have you actually read through the thread or have you just seen Jun posting loads of quotes and saying they support him?
Jun is saying that the Spectre IS literally God.Im saying the Spectre is empowered by God.
It says Logoz attached to a soul. O.o
and yes, God is higher than that, he is the total, the sum of everything, metaphyiscal and physical, and abstract. Including The Source, The Logoz, The Presence, The Godboy, The 3 Earthborn angels [also an aspect of God], and all of ITS other incarnations. Each of it's pieces serves purposes of varying degrees.
Here Juntai says that God is above Spectre. If God is above Spectre, Spectre obviously cannot be God. A part of God yes, but not God.
Originally posted by GalacticStormSpectre isn't a superhero either, he's an aspect of God, with a human a soul. He guides souls on paths they need to take. He's a manifestation of Gods will.
God is NOT a superhero. Hal as the Spectre had a connection with the Logos and it guided him. He was its agent and it empowered him. Thats different to theLogos being the Spectre.
The Wrath is a perception of humanity, Logoz told us this. It has also existed fully seperate from Hal, and in other beings while he maintained being Spectre, in issue 4. The Logoz told us it was free from the tyranny of this perception. That is the TRUE face of the Spectre.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Logos IS God. It says it on panel. Juntai is saying that the Spectre is the Logos, im saying the Spectre is empowered by the Logos to carry out the will of God.
Youre saying that Logos empowered the Spectre to carry out Gods will? You make is seem like 2 different beings.
Why not just say that God empowered Spectre to carry out his will?
Originally posted by GalacticStormNo, the Logoz is a link to God. It is a piece of Gods whole. Not the whole equation. It tells us this itself on panel in issue 4. Page 13/14 where is specifically says "Call me a thought in the creators mind."
The Logos IS God. It says it on panel. Juntai is saying that the Spectre is the Logos, im saying the Spectre is empowered by the Logos to carry out the will of God.
Originally posted by TshernHere Juntai says that God is above Spectre. If God is above Spectre, Spectre obviously cannot be God. A part of God yes, but not God.
Precisely. The Spectre was being guided by a higher hand, Hal says he feels as if his actions were not his own, yet Juntai still wants to say that the Spectre is God.
In Vol 4 it says that the Spectre is Hal bonded with the creator. We know that the Spectre in question was Hal bonded with the Logos from earlier issues, yet Juntai still wants to make out that the Logos isnt God and that it and its sum IS the Spectre.
Thats wrong. Hal is bonded to God in his role as Spectre. God is NOT the Spectre 😂
Originally posted by Juntai
No, the Logoz is a link to God. It is a piece of Gods whole. Not the whole equation. It tells us this itself.
Stop treating your interpretation as fact. The Logos does NOT tell us this . It is NOt stated that the Logos is a piece of Gods whole and that it is merely a link to God. Thats your interpretation of that scene in issue 4. Yet you persistently try to act as if your OPINION on what happened is canon fact. It is NOT nad you cannot conclusively prove it to be so.
The Logos by definition and by on panel comments IS God. It is one of his aspects, one of his many faces, it IS God. Hal is connected to the Logos making him the Spectre. The Spectre is not the Logos.
Originally posted by GalacticStormNo, it directly tells it itself.
Stop treating your interpretation as fact. The Logos does NOT tell us this . It is NOt stated that the Logos is a piece of Gods whole and that it is merely a link to God. Thats your interpretation of that scene in issue 4. Yet you persistently try to act as if your OPINION on what happened is canon fact. It is NOT nad you cannot conclusively prove it to be so.The Logos by definition and by on panel comments IS God. It is one of his aspects, one of his many faces, it IS God. Hal is connected to the Logos making him the Spectre. The Spectre is not the Logos.
Everything I've said is what's in the comics.
Yours is the speculation and opinion.
I've given comic numbers, quotes, panels that support and resupport everything I've said. You're denying characters even saying things in comics you allude to having yourself and are trying to use as a base of arguement. I have the comics, I've been telling you what's in them. The Logoz itself said it was the true face of Spectre, it claimed it was free from the tyranny of the Wrath, who we saw as a completely seperate being only pages earlier. And even says it's just a piece of God, a thought in it's mind a piece of it's whole.
Hmmm I do agree with Juntai about The Logos being a thought in the creators mind. The Logos is clearly the 1 talking in page 13/14 where it is specifically says "Call me a thought in the creators mind." It does finish what The Spectre was saying but its because The Spectre was being attached to it by the universe that perceives God as a vengeful God, it is however not God but something that is sorta pushed on The Logos.
Originally posted by kevdudeExactly.
Hmmm I do agree with Juntai about The Logos being a thought in the creators mind. The Logos is clearly the 1 talking in page 13/14 where it is specifically says "Call me a thought in the creators mind." It does finish what The Spectre was saying but its because The Spectre was being attached to it by the universe that perceives God as a vengeful God, it is however not God but something that is sorta pushed on The Logos.
Does it not Kev?
Originally posted by Juntai
No, it directly tells it itself.
"Call me an idea... in the creator's mind. A part of Her will manifested to serve the Earthly plane.. My form is dictated by humanty itself."
And then in the very next panel says it is the Logoz.
Don't you have this issue?
It's not an interpretation.Everything I've said is what's in the comics.
Yours is the speculation and opinion.
No. You're giving your interpretation of whats said in the comics. Very different. The Wrath is talking and it says its an idea in the creators mind. Her will manifested to serve on the earthly plane (As we know the Wrath was)
The Wrath then says its form is dictated by humanity itself, it says for too long it has reflected the darkness in humanity but commends Hal on being able to pierce this veil to see that the Logos beneath.
You have interpreted this as the Wrath saying it is the Logos whereas i have interpreted as saying the Logos is the power behind the Spectre
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe Logoz says it is a piece of God, an idea in the creators mind. On the next panel says, it says it's the Logoz, lol, and that it's free from the tyranny of man's projections[The Wrath,] and that IT is indeed what Spectre's true face is.
No. You're giving your interpretation of whats said in the comics. Very different. The Wrath is talking and it says its an idea in the creators mind. Her will manifested to serve on the earthly plane (As we know the Wrath was)The Wrath then says its form is dictated by humanity itself, it says for too long it has reflected the darkness in humanity but commends Hal on being able to pierce this veil to see that the Logos beneath.
You have interpreted this as the Wrath saying it is the Logos whereas i have interpreted as saying the Logos is the power behind the Spectre
The Spectre was recreated by God to fit like this though. The Spectre/Aztar/wrath is still its own being but is being used by the universe that has attacted it on The Logos, which The Logoz does not like.. The Logoz is the 1 that is a thought of The Creators mind, not The Spectre. Its hard to understand lol. gotta go to work continue the topic i'll read up on it later.
Originally posted by kevdudeSo you acknolwedge them as being different beings then?
The Spectre was recreated by God to fit like this though. The Spectre/Aztar/wrath is still its own being but is being used by the universe that has attacted it on The Logos, which The Logoz does not like.. The Logoz is the 1 that is a thought of The Creators mind, not The Spectre. Its hard to understand lol
And that without a host, The Wrath controls The Logoz?
And that in Day of Vengence, the hostless Wrath wielding the Logoz had to be stopped by the whole of God?
Just as it did when Jesus died?
And just as it was doing as it did when in Zauriels body before Hal got rid of it in that very issue?
Correct?
Originally posted by kevdude
The Spectre was recreated by God to fit like this though. The Spectre/Aztar/wrath is still its own being but is being used by the universe that has attacted it on The Logos, which The Logoz does not like.. The Logoz is the 1 that is a thought of The Creators mind, not The Spectre. Its hard to understand lol. gotta go to work continue the topic i'll read up on it later.
So if that was the Logos talking then that still means that the Spectre of Vol 4 was Hal bonded to the Logos which still doesnt equate to the Spectre being God. Especially when the Spectre called itself the divine hand and said it felt its actions were being controlled by a higher being.