Originally posted by Faunus
Stow it already with the ''zOMg! ur a fanboy1'' IKC, unlike any of you, as actually provided proof for his stance. And so far, I haven't seen anyone successfully beat them down. So until you can do so, stfu.
You must be joking, Faunus. All that IKC does when it comes to TOTJ era people vs NJO era people is throwing in his 3 basic arguments in different variations:
1) The NJO people must suck because they were trained by Luke
2) Luke must suck because he's only superior to the people he trained himself.
3) The NJO people knew jack shit about lightsaber combat or force skills compared to anything else.
IKC is simply arguing out of ignorance. I can do the same thing: Ulic must suck because he learned all about lightsaber fighting from a guy who got his ass handed to a protocol droid with a blaster after 200 years of being a Jedi. Because Ulic sucked so much and he managed to stalemate Kun, Kun must be another bad excuse for a good duellist and since Kun is the top duellist of his era all TOTJ Jedi must suck and would get curbstomped by even ROTJ Luke. There you go...
Disliking the post-ROTJ or at least post-JA novels is a common thing here. Most people here - as it seems - didn't bother to read the Young Jedi Knight series or the NJO series or the DN trilogy. And as a result of that they have ROTJ Luke in their mind who is so far below his later self (even compared to DE) that even I would suggest everybody trained by him must suck. But you can't ignore that Luke spend 7 years fighting and gathering knowledge across the Galaxy before opening his Academy on Yavin 4 as well as you can't ignore that all of his students went through multiple conflicts including a 5 year war against "the biggest thread the Galaxy has seen so far" aka the Yuuzhan Vong.
And look at the people involved in this fight.
Kyp:
- with a few weeks of training under Luke and some knowledge given to him by Kun he was able to give Luke trouble. And Luke had already defeated DE Sidious at that point.
- after one year of training he went to fight the Leviatan (And Illustrious: If I failed to mention that he was fighting in a thunderstorm, you failed to mention that he did fight the Leviathan with a freaking wooden spear before "calling down the lightning from the sky" with the force. You act as if the Leviathan was just incidentally hit by the lightning).
- in the NJO series he reproduced Luke's feat of controlling black holes with ease
- he basically wrecked dozens of Vong in melee combat including 2 slayers (as far as I remember). Just to remind people: Vong are a warrior race resistant to force attacks that took over an entire Galaxy before invading the SW universe with bodies enchanced via bio-engineering and their warrior caste has weapons / armour resistant to lightsaber hits.
Jaina / Jacen:
- in the age of 5 both managed to escaped from their cells on Hethrirs Worldship (and they were guarded by force users)
- after being captured during the Corellian Crisis in the age of 9 they again managed to escape from the Human League
- in the age of 14 they managed to escape from the Shadow Academy (Dark Jedi training facility)
- both were part of the Myrkr strike team that was sent to kill the voxyn queen which was done by Jacen after the team had fought through an entire YV worldship killing masses of YV's and voxyn (creatures with bodies nearly as hard as durasteel, fatal neurotoxins and retroviruses on any body part and even their blood durned into neurotoxin in air).
- during the NJO series Jacen managed to defeat the YV warmaster Tsavong Lah in a duel throwing him out of a window. Lah was probably the best Yuuzhan Vong warrior just below the Supreme Overlord.
- being captured by Vergere and held captive on Coruscant he first started a revolt then took down YV guards as well as 12 dhuryams (without being able to touch the force)
- after that he gained his force connection back and used a force-lightning attack on Vergere and a groups of Yuuzhan Vong.
- he helped Luke to fight through the HQ of the Supreme Overlord and slayed Omini
So...whatever people are going to tell me: Everybody in the trio seems to pocess greater force skills and fighting experience compared to Ulic and I don't see Exar "wtfpwn" one of them. I'd say that Ulic will go down first here and while Exar is superior to all of them individualy I doubt that he can take down two or all three of them at once with their amassed combat skills / fighting experience and force powers.
You must be joking, Faunus. All that IKC does when it comes to TOTJ era people vs NJO era people is throwing in his 3 basic arguments in different variations:1) The NJO people must suck because they were trained by Luke
2) Luke must suck because he's only superior to the people he trained himself.
3) The NJO people knew jack shit about lightsaber combat or force skills compared to anything else.
Strawman, logical fallacy.
IKC is simply arguing out of ignorance. I can do the same thing: Ulic must suck because he learned all about lightsaber fighting from a guy who got his ass handed to a protocol droid with a blaster after 200 years of being a Jedi. Because Ulic sucked so much and he managed to stalemate Kun, Kun must be another bad excuse for a good duellist and since Kun is the top duellist of his era all TOTJ Jedi must suck and would get curbstomped by even ROTJ Luke. There you go...
Strawman, logical fallacy.
Disliking the post-ROTJ or at least post-JA novels is a common thing here. Most people here - as it seems - didn't bother to read the Young Jedi Knight series or the NJO series or the DN trilogy. And as a result of that they have ROTJ Luke in their mind who is so far below his later self (even compared to DE) that even I would suggest everybody trained by him must suck. But you can't ignore that Luke spend 7 years fighting and gathering knowledge across the Galaxy before opening his Academy on Yavin 4 as well as you can't ignore that all of his students went through multiple conflicts including a 5 year war against "the biggest thread the Galaxy has seen so far" aka the Yuuzhan Vong.
Factual error. The NJO might suck, but attempting to lay bias at one's feet without sufficient evidence in order to prove what passes for your point is nonsense.
So...whatever people are going to tell me:
And that's the most important part. You don't read or take into account another's points. That's why we stopped responding to you.
Here we go IKC... Oh btw "We" didn't stop responding to NAI, YOU stopped responding to NAI, while others continued the debate because they had actual points to make. Oh yea, you claiming all that doesn't make it true, stop with the attitude since the joke is over, and please don't speak about bias because I'll be forced to whip out the dictionary and explain hypocrisy to you.
Oh btw "We" didn't stop responding to NAI, YOU stopped responding to NAI, while others continued the debate because they had actual points to make
That's why Illustrious stopped as well, right? How about Janus?
Good call.
Oh yea, you claiming all that doesn't make it true, stop with the attitude since the joke is over, and please don't speak about bias because I'll be forced to whip out the dictionary.
Go ahead, troll. I'm more than willing to point out your logical fallacies again.
Illustrious stopped?
Responding in that argument because it was pointless? Yes.
Janus stopped?
Yes.
Actually I'd like to point out that one of reasons Janus' hardly posts in here is becuase of all the noobs... and Nai Fohl is certianly no noob.
Last I checked, you weren't Janus. Note, "one of the reasons" anyway.
Nice try.
Originally posted by IKC
Last I checked, you weren't Janus. Note, "one of the reasons" anyway.Nice try.
Geez... nevermind that I've known Janus far longer than you, never mind that he told me that he posts so little becuase of the noobs. He's stated it countless times on DTF and EoD.
Nai Fohl while somewhat favored towards the PT era is certainly no fanboy. He is a respected member of the debating community here. Janus even stated that Nai has stated many good points about DN Luke vs Exar.
Originally posted by tdtd
Ah yes they tell you directly and yet they continue the debate and come to an agreement and the debate stops. Very convenient IKC, yet youre still hesitant to look at the thread.
Quote them for truth where they "came to an agreement," troll.
What's that? You're making it up?