Superman v.s The Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Dizzle
There's no logical reason why, but Supes has indeed resisted internal tampering quite a few times.

I can't explain it either, but it's apparently somehow in his powerset.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Good thing Surfer never brawls with someone unless he's being retarded, eh? And the "curbstomp" that would come from a slugfest might not be so clearly in Supes's corner, given SS's reaction feats, durability, and strength amping abilities. I wouldn't give him a majority, but it wouldn't be over as quick as many seem to think.

Kind of hard to "amp up" in the middle of a beatdown, if Thanos can do it with fists, so can Supes...they guy who KO's cosmic beings with fists.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Why in hell would he use red sunlight when kryptonite works so much better?

I simply stated 2 possible energy choices. Red Sunlight is the easier of the 2 to create and use since it's FAR more common.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Not as much of a weakness, but still quite a weakness. It's the difference between being shot in the chest with a cannon and being shot in the chest with a rifle. And since Surfer can make the blast as potent as he wants, make that 5 rifles.

Still a weakness, but if using both characters at potential (instead of just SS) then he'd have a hell of a hard time knowing how to create kryptonite, it's not native to his universe, and he sure ain't getting the formula out of Superman's head...this isn't gladiator.

Originally posted by Dizzle
How would that work? Especially when Surfer is, at the VERY least, an extremely competent telepath himself...

When Supes "sucks" someone in, he has access to THEIR powerset as well. Telepathy won't work, as someone like Dominus who is scales above Surfer found out. T-Vo is bordenline reality control. Think trapping someone is a board is impressive? Try recreating the phantom zone and trapping a being in that just using mental powers.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Except for the few reaction feats to rival or surpass Flash's best stuff. I have yet to see Flash do something that is clearly out of Surfer's league. (I'd call them even, as I haven't really seen anything for the vice versa either) Again, Surfer simply doesn't fight h2h unless he's being a moron, so you can't expect someone to produce scans of him pulling some DBZ crap and fighting some godly lightspeed martial artist when that would be horribly out of character. Has SUPES ever fought someone hand to hand going that fast?

Yep. WW, at least 8x the speed of light. People make a case all the time for Thanos and Thor fighting speedsters, well, Supes fights them as well. The greatest speed feats that I've seen are flash outrunning death, and Eradicator crossing from the EXPANDING edge of the universe to earth in a few panels. Supes has fought both very well.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Could just be personal preference, but I'd typically stick to the microsecond scan and kryptonite blast combination. Too fast for a counter, going by all of Superman's (relatively) mediocre reaction feats.

Surfer has had plenty of those moments as well. Can't use it for one character and ignore it for the next. Vibrate invisible, shoot out a few illusion images, and KO SS as he tries to locate the real Supes.

Originally posted by Dizzle
If by that you mean "Surfer takes 10/10 very easily when not holding back," then yes, I completely agree.

If you are trying to be sarcastic, it doesn't suit you. Time shattering punches, and cosmic being trapping T-VO are more than enough to handle SS as well. 10/10 is a lucid dream, though SS does get his share of victories.

10/10? yea that is a joke, taken that these guys pound for pound, move for move, will be taking eachother across the universe fighting like mad men, probably ending in a stalemate.

Originally posted by Redatom65
Who wins this one Superman or The Surfer no prep for either

Gladiator = Superman
Silver Surfer > Gladiator
Silver Surfer > Superman

yea i s'pose, but in a confrontation of gladiator and superman, superman was voted most likely to win. So again could he turn one over Silver Surfer. and i think he'll stalemate him.

Originally posted by MattDay
yea i s'pose, but in a confrontation of gladiator and superman, superman was voted most likely to win. So again could he turn one over Silver Surfer. and i think he'll stalemate him.

Voting which superhero would win is like voting for president, usually the more popular guy wins.

that's one angle, but i think of it as something more than that

I don't understand. What is stopping Norrin from simply draining the solar energy from Superman?

There are so many ways he can win-trapping him inside his surf board, trapping him inside an energy construct, sending him into another dimension..but draining his solar energy is most convenient. He could also give him a K-Nite blast; Radioactive man did after all. But moreover, what's stopping him from simply draining his energy?

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
I don't understand. What is stopping Norrin from simply draining the solar energy from Superman?

There are so many ways he can win-trapping him inside his surf board, trapping him inside an energy construct, sending him into another dimension..but draining his solar energy is most convenient. He could also give him a K-Nite blast; Radioactive man did after all. But moreover, what's stopping him from simply draining his energy?

I'll tell you whats stoppin him....its all the supes fanboy 😎

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Could someone explain then how Thanos owns this guy hardcore?
Seriously? Thanos has nowhere near the same matter manipulation, speed, energy manipulation, and diversity that people claim SS brings to battle.

Mindship, I quoted you because I tend to enjoy reading your theories on these types of things.

🙂 thanks

Originally posted by UniOmni
Leonidas. You say you have a hard time accepting that most if not all of SS's comics are pis defined?? You who have a picture in your avi with Flash in it?? I'd think you'd accept that better than most. You seem to favor DC a bit. PIS reigns in Superman and Flash and GL comics. This is no surprise. And for SS to heal all the worlds diseases would lessen the human condition. And that always makes for the best stories.
And Surfer can amp his strength to incalculable levels. He once absorbed a massive amount of energy from a star, and was shown to be massively bulked up. HtH surfer would stand a good chance against Superman, but that would contradict his pacifist nature.
And why would Superman not feel blasts of PC?? I admit he probably would shrug off the weaker blasts, but why would he not be affected by concentrated blasts?
Like i said. Surfer acting in character wouldn't go to supermans arena, but if he were a brutal being by nature, he could house Superman in hth.
Strength amplification with the energy of the universe itself, an infinite source, and not to mention his myriad of other powers. Pacifism saves Superman from a brutal beating.

heh. that's why i don't buy flash books and never have. i DO love the jla though . . . 😉

blasts would hurt, but supes has handled that before. i still say supes would win h2h -- he's simply more competent at it, if nothing else.

as far as thanos -- it does seem like jobbing. thanos is apparently just better at everything than ss is. one must deduce that anything ss can do thanos can do better or at a higher level. clearly ss can't amp 'incalculably'. he can't even reach thanos' level. 'infinite, incalculable ' powers are usually anything BUT. . . .

there ARE limits to ss's powers, as mindship seems to be following. that's what so many people don't seem to get. where the limits are is open to debate -- clearly, but to best determine them we need to use on-panel feats. some of what people are suggesting he simply has never done.

as far as the supes=glads<ss. in a fight between ss and glads, (where ss didn't use glads weakness) ss says he and glads are equal and could battle forever.

as far as t-vo -- i just don't know enough about it to say supes could wipe out ss with it. it is certainly possible he could do so, but i've not seen enough of it to really decide one way or the other.

supes COULD win but i see ss taking the majority based on his versatility. unless t-vo can be used effectively. avy might know that better than anyone.

Except for the few reaction feats to rival or surpass Flash's best stuff. I have yet to see Flash do something that is clearly out of Surfer's league

If someone has the picture where Flash saves people out of a city in order to save them from a nuclear bomb, he might show you Flash's real speed. I calculated the speed he uses in it and the average was some 1,5 MILLION times the speed of light. It was like 500 000 times to the city, 500 000 times back from the city times the distance, which was some 37 miles (Can't recall exactly) in 0,0001 seconds.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
I don't understand. What is stopping Norrin from simply draining the solar energy from Superman?

The problem with this is that DC does not do a good job with sustaining Superman's foil, it's kind of why they have a hard time to create a reoccuring villain. Thanos is not so much a jobber as he is just a foil to SS. He is that individual who will force SS to beat him in really unorthodox ways, if he does beat him. On the other hand with DC, they create a character or villain that is impossibly strong, or has some ungodly insurmountable advantage and then justify Superman's victory by saying , oh those other times he was just holding back. Or they create a plot device to build from. It pretty much always comes down to, "Duperman is teh greatist hero everrrr!! Because DC never gives Superman any upper limits, and if they do they break them just for the sheer sake of the plot. it's why people don't like Superman. he's too fantastic, and the best hero's are the ones with a sense of realism, a flaw, something that makes them relatable, and not some dude who everytime he is is faced with an impossible challenge, he was just holding back. What if that one time he reaches down deep for that hidden strength to find nothing there, what then? This is why SS wins because he's not one dimensional , and Supes is.

Silver surfer he is way too much for superman

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
I don't understand. What is stopping Norrin from simply draining the solar energy from Superman?

There are so many ways he can win-trapping him inside his surf board, trapping him inside an energy construct, sending him into another dimension..but draining his solar energy is most convenient. He could also give him a K-Nite blast; Radioactive man did after all. But moreover, what's stopping him from simply draining his energy?

I'm waiting....

Originally posted by Dynamic One
The problem with this is that DC does not do a good job with sustaining Superman's foil, it's kind of why they have a hard time to create a reoccuring villain. Thanos is not so much a jobber as he is just a foil to SS. He is that individual who will force SS to beat him in really unorthodox ways, if he does beat him. On the other hand with DC, they create a character or villain that is impossibly strong, or has some ungodly insurmountable advantage and then justify Superman's victory by saying , oh those other times he was just holding back. Or they create a plot device to build from. It pretty much always comes down to, "Duperman is teh greatist hero everrrr!! Because DC never gives Superman any upper limits, and if they do they break them just for the sheer sake of the plot. it's why people don't like Superman. he's too fantastic, and the best hero's are the ones with a sense of realism, a flaw, something that makes them relatable, and not some dude who everytime he is is faced with an impossible challenge, he was just holding back. What if that one time he reaches down deep for that hidden strength to find nothing there, what then? This is why SS wins because he's not one dimensional , and Supes is.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
I'm waiting....

draining his solar power has ben tried umpteen times and has never really worked. supes stores months worth of power and the sun replenishes him very quickly. he may be able to weaken him with it though then use other powers to finish him. it's not likely he could just drain him. if he started, supes could take the fight to space where he absorbs even faster.

trapping in the board was the stupidest thing i've ever seen the ss do . . .

banish to another dimension? might work. bfr is an option, but not a very could win. and there are people who will tell you that he can punch through dimensions anyway . . .

it would be a combination of speed and power that would get him wins, but it wouldn't be easy or fast imo. every single thing ss can do to supes HAS been done to him many times in the past. the ss brings nothing really new to the table, but his versatility, speed and durability are enough to get the job done most of the time. i don't see it as impossible for supes to win though. ss would have to fight out of character and go for killing tactics to win.

Kind of hard to "amp up" in the middle of a beatdown, if Thanos can do it with fists, so can Supes...they guy who KO's cosmic beings with fists.

So everything Thanos can do, Superman can do? I doubt it. His raw strength feats are relatively nonexistant, but so are any examples, or even hints at, an upper limit. And even though I personally can't explain it, Surfer has never, ever used real speed against Thanos. Hell, he's never done anything very impressive when fighting Thanos. It's basically assumed that he's just "supposed" to lose. I'd say Dynamic One explained the real reasons behind it extremely well.

I simply stated 2 possible energy choices. Red Sunlight is the easier of the 2 to create and use since it's FAR more common.

Except for the whole cosmic awareness thing... He wouldn't know to use either without it, so it stands to reason that he'd go for the much more effective one.

Still a weakness, but if using both characters at potential (instead of just SS) then he'd have a hell of a hard time knowing how to create kryptonite, it's not native to his universe, and he sure ain't getting the formula out of Superman's head...this isn't gladiator. [/]b

Just SS? Hell, that's nowhere near his potential. Arguing that Supes could even begin to resist a superconcentrated blast of the one thing that, until very recently, would instantly strip him of power and kill him within minutes is putting him way ABOVE his level of power. He's resisted it before, but in nowhere near the amounts that Surfer can put in a blast, and not nearly well enough to justify anything but him being vaporized. He will know the wavelength because of cosmic awareness. He doesn't know anything about the radiation that harms Gladiator either, but he himself stated that he could produce it without hesitation. It may not BE Gladiator, but it's pretty much the same deal. There's absolutely no reason why cosmic awareness wouldn't work.

[b]When Supes "sucks" someone in, he has access to THEIR powerset as well. Telepathy won't work, as someone like Dominus who is scales above Surfer found out. T-Vo is bordenline reality control. Think trapping someone is a board is impressive? Try recreating the phantom zone and trapping a being in that just using mental powers.

Several things. A) How does this stop cosmic awareness? I thought you were suggesting that Supes would use his mental powers to somehow block it. B) Surfer doesn't typically use telepathy offensively... And wouldn't Supes have done all of that using Dominus's own powers anyway? C) How long does that take?

Yep. WW, at least 8x the speed of light. People make a case all the time for Thanos and Thor fighting speedsters, well, Supes fights them as well. The greatest speed feats that I've seen are flash outrunning death, and Eradicator crossing from the EXPANDING edge of the universe to earth in a few panels. Supes has fought both very well.

Was Flash using his speed to potential when fighting Supes? Using his power well, Wally would curbstomp Superman into oblivion. Did Eradicator ever use his ungodly speed to fight Superman? Does Eradicator actually have any reaction time speed feats that suggest he could even begin to pull off a speedblitz? As I recall, you don't accept people using fights against speedsters that don't use their speed as a valid argument for Thanos or Thor, so why make an exception when it's Superman? Surfer's feats simply outclass his, in both reactions and traveling speed. He'll be dead before he can react, which is where even the T-Vo plan falls short.

Surfer has had plenty of those moments as well. Can't use it for one character and ignore it for the next. Vibrate invisible, shoot out a few illusion images, and KO SS as he tries to locate the real Supes.[/]b

You misunderstand me. I meant that Superman's best speed and reaction feats are relatively mediocre, when compared to the likes of Silver Surfer and Flash. Vibrating invisible and illusion images don't work on people who move and think much, much faster.

[b]If you are trying to be sarcastic, it doesn't suit you. Time shattering punches, and cosmic being trapping T-VO are more than enough to handle SS as well. 10/10 is a lucid dream, though SS does get his share of victories.

Because we're pulling out every single one of Superman's spontaneously created powers, I WILL argue Surfer to his absolute maximum potential. Which definitely involves Supes dying before he has a chance to pull out either of those options, because he won't have any time to THINK before he was atomized by a star destroying blast that's pumped up with superconcentrated kryptonite radiation.

And hell, if we want to get technical, Surfer can step outside of time as soon as the battle starts and KO Supes at his leisure. Or he can simply vibrate Flash style, as Flash HAS vibrated through Superman before. Punches don't do much when they don't hit anything.

I'd still also like a good explanation as to how Torquasm Vo works. If it works through willpower or mental strength... Well, Surfer resisted the mind gem. If it really bends reality, then he can always fall back on the speedblitz option, but quite frankly, it seems to be a very JLAKMC kind of thing to do. 😛

Originally posted by leonidas
draining his solar power has ben tried umpteen times and has never really worked. supes stores months worth of power and the sun replenishes him very quickly. he may be able to weaken him with it though then use other powers to finish him. it's not likely he could just drain him. if he started, supes could take the fight to space where he absorbs even faster.

Shouldn't Surfer be able to simply mess with whatever aura protects Superman though? It's energy, and unless Superman was just messing with us the whole time, it isn't magic. Taking that away would do a hell of a lot.

trapping in the board was the stupidest thing i've ever seen the ss do . . .

I'm going to agree. Superman gets new random uber destructive powers because he always "holds back" just a little less every time, Surfer constantly reveals new abilities that do nothing but help the whole pacifist thing along.

banish to another dimension? might work. bfr is an option, but not a very could win. and there are people who will tell you that he can punch through dimensions anyway . . .

No, that's Superboy Prime...

it would be a combination of speed and power that would get him wins, but it wouldn't be easy or fast imo. every single thing ss can do to supes HAS been done to him many times in the past. the ss brings nothing really new to the table, but his versatility, speed and durability are enough to get the job done most of the time. i don't see it as impossible for supes to win though. ss would have to fight out of character and go for killing tactics to win.

The thing is, when all of the elements get smashed into one, it IS something different. Flash never attacked Superman with a kryptonite laser and nearly indestructible battle armor. If he ever did, I really don't see Supes coming out with too many victories. And I REALLY don't see the fight lasting too long.

Surfer has star-destroying blasts? Never seen it from him. That scan with Nova shows something happening on the surface of the sun. There wasn't any concussive star destroying blasts from Nova at all.