If Luke was the greatest he would have beaten the Rancor just using the force and won easy every time he fight against humans. But it is always hard fights.
My opinion is if it has been Darth Vader who falled down to the Rancor or is up against humans ect he would just use the force and the Rancor/humans etc would be dead in 5 seconds.
Based from the movies - no doubt Darth Vader is the greatest (prime in ep 5). Maybe Luke was near Vaders greatest in ep 6, but he had no chance against Sidious, but he was stronger than Vader in the end of ep. 6.
I also had the feeling that Vader could wipe out Sidious anytime he wanted - he said that indirectly at least two times (ep 3 and ep 6).
Luke at ROTJ had not even trained for 1/8 of a normal padawans time, he was still damn impressive. Luke as a master is more powerful than anyone....
And jedi doesn't use the force to attack or kill people anyway...
Darth Vader was weaker then Sidious, George Lucas has said himself that DV is only 80% of Sidious when it comes to combat. Darth Vader was NOT the strongest as of ESB, then he would have overthrown Palpatine, DV lost most of his potential as of ep 3, and could not be better than Sidious. He would have been if he wasn't wounded however...
I do agree that with a full training Luke probably will be the best of them all. In ep 6 Sidious said - only together (to Vader) we can turn him to the dark side indicating that he may be to strong for Sidious doing it alone - though he did seem stronger in the fight against Luke in ep 6.
Interesting that Lucas said that Vader is only 80% - if he said that - I have to change my opinion (did he say anything by Luke?). Do you have a reference for that? And maybe a list from Lucas listing the power of them all - that would be very interesting. Though just from the movies my impression is that Vader (at his prime in ep 5) is the greatest of them all.
I do not understand why Vader loose his potential after the fight against Obi Wan - of course speed, but not power or force.
Another thing in ep. 3 - Sidious was beaten up by Windu or did he new exactly when Anakin would be there? - not my impression - I think he was very very lucky.
Jedi attack humans: I meant when Jedis were attacked by humans, rancor or others they will defense them self - they should use the force, but they are always fighting as ordinary people almost with out their skills. If it have been Vader or Sidious they would have killed the attacker in 5 seconds using the force - the jedis have to fight a long tuff fight almost getting killed them self. This is very very strange - there is no logic ?????????
The dark side seems to have much more power compared to the Jedis - except when they are in a direct fight Jedi against Sith Lord - this is most strange in all the Star Wars universe - but it is seen often in the movies where good is fighting evil.
I do agree that with a full training Luke probably will be the best of them all. In ep 6 Sidious said - only together (to Vader) we can turn him to the dark side indicating that he may be to strong for Sidious doing it alone - though he did seem stronger in the fight against Luke in ep 6.
That has less to do with "power" than willpower. Palpatine needed Vader to cooperate with him for the obvious reason that Luke still loved Vader - and Luke also knew how evil and devious the Emperor was, and would be unlikely to trust him. That, and it could have also been used simply to keep Vader from disobeying him, demanding his full cooperation.
And, as of RotJ, yes, Sidious > Luke by 68.7 kilometers.
Interesting that Lucas said that Vader is only 80% - if he said that - I have to change my opinion (did he say anything by Luke?). Do you have a reference for that? And maybe a list from Lucas listing the power of them all - that would be very interesting. Though just from the movies my impression is that Vader (at his prime in ep 5) is the greatest of them all.
A lot of Star Wars fans have this mentality that Vader = supreme power in the universe. The obvious question to this is, if that were the case, then why didn't he destroy the Emperor before Return of the Jedi, and why did he need Luke, and why did he take orders from the Emperor.
It is logical that if Vader were more powerful, he'd have killed Palpatine before A New Hope.
But yes, in the suit, Vader's potential is only 80% of Sidious's.
I do not understand why Vader loose his potential after the fight against Obi Wan - of course speed, but not power or force.
Midi-chlorians, you see. Midi-chlorians are the tiny organisms that give Force users their power. They are living cells. When Vader was defeated by Obi-Wan, he lost much of his midi-chlorians because of the loss of his legs, and other arm. He lost most of his living tissue, which cut his potential down considerably.
Another thing in ep. 3 - Sidious was beaten up by Windu or did he new exactly when Anakin would be there? - not my impression - I think he was very very lucky.
That whole fight was bad choreography and unanswered questions. The Emperor killed Tinn and Kolar with petty ease. He was also able to fight off Fisto and Windu simultaneously before killing Fisto. It is curious that Palpatine seemed to dominate the fight before Anakin's arrival - and that he did not use his obvious superior Force mastery against Windu.
Before the duel, Palpatine had contacted Anakin via the Force to warn him that should he [Palpatine] die, then all hope of saving Padme would be lost forever. Then, of course, you have to factor in that the Emperor was a master manipulator whose goal at that point was to replace Count Dooku with Anakin.
Of course, on the other hand, Palpatine hadn't touched a lightsaber for thirteen years prior to RotS, and Mace Windu is one hell of a duelist. So it's possible, highly possible, that he legitimately lost.
Jedi attack humans: I meant when Jedis were attacked by humans, rancor or others they will defense them self - they should use the force, but they are always fighting as ordinary people almost with out their skills. If it have been Vader or Sidious they would have killed the attacker in 5 seconds using the force - the jedis have to fight a long tuff fight almost getting killed them self. This is very very strange - there is no logic ?????????
The Jedi do not have the offensive Force advantage that the Sith have. They can't generate Force lightning, choke, or crush. They are forced to use Force push, and rely heavily on their lightsaber skills.
The dark side seems to have much more power compared to the Jedis - except when they are in a direct fight Jedi against Sith Lord - this is most strange in all the Star Wars universe - but it is seen often in the movies where good is fighting evil.
Both sides of the Force are equal. One isn't truly more powerful. In the Prequel Trilogy, it seemed that the dark side was stronger. This was because of Palpatine's rise to power - his presence was causing the balance to shift to darkness. In the Original Trilogy, the dark side was slowly clearing - and the light side was returning - with the arrival of Luke and the spark of humanity in Vader.
Before the duel, Palpatine had contacted Anakin via the Force to warn him that should he [Palpatine] die, then all hope of saving Padme would be lost forever.
That's one way of interpreting it. Another is that Anakin was thinking over what Palpatine had been saying to him, and his thoughts were voiced out loud as way of cinematic effect.
Thanks for the answers though I still have problems with the above - Especially I still think it is very strange that Luke had big problems against the Rancor and others (at that time he had great power) - and other Jedi's with the one they are fighting.
Do you agree with me that if it has been Vader or Sidious against the Rancor it will have taken less than a minute then the Rancor was beaten by use of just the force. The Jedi has the same force power as Siths - remember the dark side is not stronger - Yoda has told us....
But it is always like that in movies - the dark side seems very very strong - though the good side always win - strange strange ..........
Originally posted by KadeshOK. I made an error here but Luke is still on top.
You got alot of things mixed up, First LOTF luke > dn luke for sure
Originally posted by Kadesh
Secondly Nihilus should be 2nd and on par with sidious, why? Because if you read unseen unheard, his force drain is so powerful it could destroy the entire landscape and turn the whole planet to rubble and his drain being so powerful it killed billions of life forms on katarr.
Kriea also stated this about him: "Power? Do you think so? There is no strength in the hunger he possesses…"
Originally posted by Kadesh
Sidious is just as powerful with his wide range of force powers
Originally posted by Kadesh
Id put exar on par with sidious as well as nihilus
Originally posted by Kadesh
But above all the sith i will put freedon nadd, as a spirit he could harm people and he was able to push vodo from millions of lightyears away and trigger an avalanche on exar kun, Yet he himself in his real body could singlehandedly conquer onderon and yes, id still put him above revan because of zukas statements "he was far worse than revan and malak ever were" and how are you going to be a tyrant if your not as powerful as you are suppose to be? Even nadd was able to kill naga sadow
I missed Freedon Nadd in my list but I will still rank him below Revan. Because being "Far Worse" has nothing to do with "being more powerful".
And Malak was known to wipe out entire worlds on search of just one enemy, so he was no less Evil.
And Exar Kun actually destroyed Nadd's spirit on Yavin 4.
Originally posted by Kadesh
Revan being the heart of the force? a quote from an in universe perspective? Then i must say if so then tulak hord > all other sith lightsaber duelists.
And Tulak Horde might be incredibly good in Saber Dueling. We don't know much about him unfortunately.
Originally posted by Kadesh
If you want to use quotes as reference then sidious should be king of the universe being declared the most powerful or marka ragnos the most powerful of the most powerful and exar kun whom people claim his presence was so disturbing that the ground "trembled".
Marka Ragnos is stated to be among most powerful but not the most. He has never faced a noteworthy rival accept Naga Sadow who was not as powerful as Exar, Revan, Bane and Sidious.
Originally posted by Kadesh
If you use inuniverse points of view then exar kun should be above revan, why? many kotor characters declare exar kun the strongest sith lord in history
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
1.) Luke
2.) Sidious
3.) Jacen
4.) Nihilus
5.) Revan
6.) Kyp
7.) Exar
8.) Yoda
9.) Bane
10.) Traya
And if Nihilus's "Super-Force Drain" is the only deciding factor of his such high position then he could kill any opponent including Sidious with it and he should be ranked above Sidious as well. A game has hyped him so much and yet he was easiest to defeat.
Originally posted by Crado
Oh wait, so because it doesn't mention it, it can't have happened? Seriously...
Actually, instead of being a sarcastic punk, you can provide proof that disagrees with this:
- Sidious was a master manipulator.
- Jedi and Sith have felt and communicated eachother via the Force before.
- Sidious's goal was to turn Anakin to the dark side.
- The fight ended just shortly before Anakin arrived and Sidious did not use the Force.
There you go. Logical deduction seems to have an avenue here.
Nihilus does not deserves that spot. Also Exar Kun so below does not makes sense either.And if Nihilus's "Super-Force Drain" is the only deciding factor of his such high position then he could kill any opponent including Sidious with it and he should be ranked above Sidious as well. A game has hyped him so much and yet he was easiest to defeat.
Nihilus's ability to do a Drain of that power alone tells him how much power he has. This ability ranks him high. You see no-one else being the destruction of the force.
But again, I made an exception. Normally, I rank Nihilus as 0 because his abilities are powerful, but so powerful that it puts him above everyone else, including Sidious.
So here's my justified list:
0. Nihilus- Tremendous Drain power.
1.) Luke Skywalker- Master of the Force. Unstoppable.
2.) Sidious- Supreme master of the Dark.
3.) Jacen- Was said to be nearly as powerful as Luke.
4.) Revan- Deadly repetoire of Force moves. Taught Bane all he should know, which obviously signifies Revan's knowledge of the Dark Side. In addition, even MORE powerful as a prodigal Knight. Strong eh?
5.) Kyp- Said to be on level with Luke. Not great the lightsaber, but uber with the Force.
6.) Exar Kun- A superb Dark Side Force user. Froze a whole Senate, damn!
7.) Yoda- Supreme master of the Light. Managed to throw back a Senate Pod ten times his size coming down as a missile with acceleration from gravity right back up with even faster speed.
8.) Bane- Revan's apprentice. Revan taught much to Bane and Bane has perfected this. Collapsed an entire temple.
9.) Traya- Master of telekinesis and other sweet DS moves.
10.) Dooku/Vader. Both are pretty much equal in DS Force Strength.
Originally posted by Escape81
Actually, instead of being a sarcastic punk, you can provide proof that disagrees with this:- Sidious was a [B]master manipulator
.
- Jedi and Sith have felt and communicated eachother via the Force before.
- Sidious's goal was to turn Anakin to the dark side.
- The fight ended just shortly before Anakin arrived and Sidious did not use the Force.There you go. Logical deduction seems to have an avenue here. [/B]
Anakin showed no reaction the the 'telepathy', none. If Palpatine really had been communicating with him, Anakin would have acknowledged him. It's pretty clear that he was just remembering what Palpatine had been saying.