Originally posted by Lightsnake
And yet....
"The most powerful Sith in history."Bane<Sidious according to the dark Side SOurcebook, Heritage of the Sith and Dark Empire sourcebook.
Noobaris is so cute when he goes on a Bane-rant. He reminds me of that eight-year-old who thinks he's a badass and tries to put himself up there with the high schoolers and college men.
"The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power."
^ Forgot that one, LS.
Edit:
Noobaris: [faced with overwhelming evidence and statements of Sidious's superiority over Bane] THE QOOT IZ AMBIGUS! Ha ! IT IZ AMBIGUS BICUZ I SAI SO! HA!
You've given the Dark Side Sourcebook one. That's it.
'When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane, only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strengths of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge. Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that ultimately served to further empower the sith'You are referring to this, correct?
If so, then there are two major flaws.1. 'The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious.' - you assume that the 'these' refers to the entire order of sith lords that was set down by Darth Bane, when it can just as easily be interpreted that the 'these' refers to the then current two sith lords. So basically, the argument is inconclusive, and can't be used.
2. Power is ambiguous, you can't deny this. Now when the passage states that Sidious is the most powerful, it also lists his weapons (some would define 'weapon' as 'tool of power', so to speak) as not only strength in the darkside, knowledge of the darkside, and an enormous wealth of artifacts and equipment, but also political knowledge and skills in manipulation; intellect related attributes, so in this context, power is clearly not purely related to combat prowess, but intellect as well.
Now please, this argument is invalid, how about stop repeating it.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And who was their leader? It was Revan. He employed special tactics that enabled the Republic to win in that devastating war.
Who was arguing about leaders? The fact is he had the numbers and exceptional Jedi and leaders like Malak, The Exile and Saul Karath who individually had a large impact on the outcome of the war.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He may have re-established Sith? He established Sith in much better way then Kun, Ulic or Nadd could do.He introduced modern Sith who were technologically superior to all Sith Rebels before. He established a huge Sith Empire, which was capable enough to finish off Republic.
Should I tell you that what the Republic did to Exar Kun's Sith?
How did he establish the Sith in a better way? Kun and Ulic had a mandalorian army while Revan and Malak had a defected Republic army - no contrast (aside from the obvious).
Kun's actions were said to have ensured that the Sith would live on for millenia, if not for Kun and Ulic Revan might never have become a Sith in the first place.
And technological superiority? Well duh... the galaxy continually undergoes technological advancement, this is a null point.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As a Sith he did lot more but did not got enough time to finish his work because of betrayal. Have you forgotten this?That betrayal ended all his plans..
Which is exactly what I said, Malak prematurely ended his reign.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you know that he had visited Lehon before? No you don't.He went there, destroyed the entire army of Black Rakatans and ripped the minds of the remaining Black Rakatans and installed Basic in them, so that he could speak to them and understand. If this is not domination then what it is actually?
And those Black Rakatans were still fearsome warriors. They looted and killed who ever went there in their regions and even managed to train the mighty Rancor Beasts for warfare. They were far from average primitives and a big threat to the Elder Rakatans who were technologically superior.
First of all I made it clear that he had visited Lehon before Kotor 1. Secondly, I made it clear that he slapped around non-force sensitive premitive Rakata's, which essentially makes the feat pretty pointless in an argument for Revan's place in second place.
Do I need to start listing Sadow's ability to use Sith alchemy to make a star go nova or his ability to create illusions over entire battle fields on three different worlds? Or Nihilus' ability to drain entire planets of their life force?
Or Bane's ability to move a moon out of orbit with TK and his institution of the rule of two? Or perhaps you'd like me to mention that Darth Vader the face of star wars franchise oversaw the destruction of the Jedi and administered over an empire a lot more powerful and larger than Revan's short lived military regime?
My point being there are a lot of names I could put in front of Revan in the Sith rankings.
Originally posted by Gideon
[B]Noobaris is so cute when he goes on a Bane-rant. He reminds me of that eight-year-old who thinks he's a badass and tries to put himself up there with the high schoolers and college men."The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power."
^ Forgot that one, LS. [/B]
It's ambiguous. It could mean greatest as in accomplishments and the potential of future plans. It could mean most evil and dedicated to the darkside. We can quite clearly see his pathetic movie level displays of power, so even if the quote was absolute and meant what you wanted it too, it contradicts with the movie's representation of his power.
It's ambiguous.
I understand that your illogical and fanboy-entrenched method of thinking prevents you from understanding that not everything regarding Sidious's power is ambiguous, but I assure you, it is the case. Try as you might to declare otherwise.
It could mean greatest as in accomplishments and the potential of future plans. It could mean most evil and dedicated to the darkside. We can quite clearly see his pathetic movie level displays of power, so even if the quote was absolute and meant what you wanted it too, it contradicts with the movie's representation of his power.
No.
Sidious, at the time that quote was made, was the Chancellor. Little more than a public servant weighed down by the ineffective bureacratic system. It is only 'til the very, very end of AotC that his emergency powers begin to take place - and only by the end of RotS is he Emperor of the galaxy.
It does not refer to accomplishments. Try again, Noobaris.
Originally posted by allfg
Nice argument. Also, can I take it that your reliance on official quotes indicates that you can't make a case for Sidious based on what he actually does in the SW saga?
The quote says that Darth Sidious was the most powerful, if you didn't notice. That means, of course, that he was the most powerful SITH, most likely of Bane's Order if you want to get really specific.
Bane was powerful and definitely gifted, but his Order culminated in Palpatine.
I understand that your illogical and fanboy-entrenched method of thinking prevents you from understanding that not everything regarding Sidious's power is ambiguous, but I assure you, it is the case. Try as you might to declare otherwise.
So you're going to try and deny that power is ambiguous?
No.Sidious, at the time that quote was made, was the Chancellor. Little more than a public servant weighed down by the ineffective bureacratic system. It is only 'til the very, very end of AotC that his emergency powers begin to take place - and only by the end of RotS is he Emperor of the galaxy.
It does not refer to accomplishments. Try again, Noobaris.
That's your opinion, but how about not ignoring the second alternative I provided. It could easily refer to his dedication to the darkside, and his willingness to do what he must for it.
Originally posted by Captain REX
The quote says that Darth Sidious was the most powerful, if you didn't notice. That means, of course, that he was the most powerful SITH, most likely of Bane's Order if you want to get really specific.Bane was powerful and definitely gifted, but his Order culminated in Palpatine.
'When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane, only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strengths of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge. Perhaps the best weapon in his arsenal was his keen understanding of galactic politics, and his seemingly unlimited ability to engineer situations that ultimately served to further empower the sith'You are referring to this, correct?
If so, then there are two major flaws.1. 'The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious.' - you assume that the 'these' refers to the entire order of sith lords that was set down by Darth Bane, when it can just as easily be interpreted that the 'these' refers to the then current two sith lords. So basically, the argument is inconclusive, and can't be used.
2. Power is ambiguous, you can't deny this. Now when the passage states that Sidious is the most powerful, it also lists his weapons (some would define 'weapon' as 'tool of power', so to speak) as not only strength in the darkside, knowledge of the darkside, and an enormous wealth of artifacts and equipment, but also political knowledge and skills in manipulation; intellect related attributes, so in this context, power is clearly not purely related to combat prowess, but intellect as well.
Now please, this argument is invalid, how about stop repeating it.
So you're going to try and deny that power is ambiguous?
You try to put the "ambiguous" spin on anything related to Sidious. Sorry chap, it don't work.
That's your opinion, but how about not ignoring the second alternative I provided. It could easily refer to his dedication to the darkside, and his willingness to do what he must for it.
No, it's a fact, Noobaris. Secondly, his dedication and willingness have nothing to do with it, try as you might to put some stupid pro-Bane spin on it.
Refute it, otherwise, the discussion's over. Prove it was about accomplishments. 🙂
You try to put the "ambiguous" spin on anything related to Sidious. Sorry chap, it don't work.
And all you do is whine about there being not enough people getting boners over Sidious. Now again, are you going to try and deny that power is ambiguous?
No, it's a fact, Noobaris. Secondly, his dedication and willingness have nothing to do with it, try as you might to put some stupid pro-Bane spin on it.
"The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power."
I'd say it's far more likely that this refers to Sidious' dedication to the darkside, and it applies; 'the greatest master of evil' - most willing to do what he must for the darkside.
Refute it, otherwise, the discussion's over.
Lol, this is what you say each time. The desperation to end the argument makes it pretty clear that you know you are wrong.
Prove it was about accomplishments.
Why are you so desperate to get me to argue this point, lol. Do you want to divert attention away from the other argument or something? 😂
And all you do is whine about there being not enough people getting boners over Sidious. Now again, are you going to try and deny that power is ambiguous?
My being a fan of Sidious (as well as Thrawn, Pellaeon, Dooku, Malak, and Tarkin) doesn't come anywhere near the level of your homoerotic love for Bane does. "Power" is not ambiguous when the context of the situation makes it clear. You (lacking an argument) always try to put the "ambiguity" spin on power when it applies to Sidious. Funny how it's never popped up anywhere else with you.
"The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power."
I'd say it's far more likely that this refers to Sidious' dedication to the darkside, and it applies; 'the greatest master of evil' - most willing to do what he must for the darkside.
That's great. Sadly, what "you say" doesn't mean a whole helluva lot around here. Or have you not noticed? No one agrees with your egomaniacal delusions that you have "extreme skillz!" as a debater. So, back up what you say. Hell, you'd do better with Numan agreeing with you than your opinion on it's own. That's how pathetic it is.
Lol, this is what you say each time. The desperation to end the argument makes it pretty clear that you know you are wrong.
Your insight is amazing; pray tell, could this be the same insight that persuaded you to claim that "Kasim blocked teh TEEKAY BLAST!!!" when it didn't?
Why are you so desperate to get me to argue this point, lol. Do you want to divert attention away from the other argument or something? 😂
Desperate? That insight of yours is so (un)amazing. You're about as insightful as Hellen Keller in Wal-Mart. I know that you can't argue this point to save your life, which is why when you always attempt to argue it, I try to have you refute it, because it brings a smile to everybody's faces - watching you make numerous excuses and attempt to "divert attention" away from the argument.
Edit: Speaking of which, Noobaris, explain to me how YOU of all people can accuse somebody else of DESPERATION. You've been banned here about thirtybazillion times, and yet you keep coming back, getting owned and ridiculed every step of the way, and then you get banned again - and THEN you repeat. Please. THAT is desperation in its finest, my friend.