{They both follow the orders of the One Above All, in both their universes. Spectre is more direct about it; Living Tribunal has juristiction over everyone, except TOAA. Fight seems a draw - but Spectre has longer history of jobbing.}
Yeah he does. How can Darksied and beings as this give him any trouble if he's that powerful ?
But still, it does seem a draw. It's like Marvel God vs DC God, both beings are backed up by thier superiors.
{It'll be like that when TOAA is confirmed by canon as Marvels God.}
Are you kidding ?
In DC it's not even certain to me whether the Precense or Yahweh is the true God.
The One Above All doesn't have to be confirmed as "God". You're thinking to religiously and literal here. The One Above All is the SUPREME BEING is Marvel's multiverse bro. Therefore he is either the being we want to call "GOD" Or he's just the SUPREME BEING...doesn't matter.
He or she, whichever, is equivlent to DC's Supreme Being. Only TOAA was able to withstand Thanos with HOTU, therefore he's obviously above all.
I'm not even gonna continue arguing this, you're point was rediculous bro
Originally posted by illadelph12
You mean like it's been confirmed on panel that Jean Grey can be killed? 😄(Sorry, couldn't resist).
It was stated in her that she can render herself totally indestructible and we have seen her keep her phsyical body alive from injuries that would prove fatal to a mortal body, because it was her wish to do so. All canon. Thats good enough. 😉
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
{It'll be like that when TOAA is confirmed by canon as Marvels God.}Are you kidding ?
In DC it's not even certain to me whether the Precense or Yahweh is the true God.
The One Above All doesn't have to be confirmed as "God". You're thinking to religiously and literal here. The One Above All is the SUPREME BEING is Marvel's multiverse bro. Therefore he is either the being we want to call "GOD" Or he's just the SUPREME BEING...doesn't matter.
He or she, whichever, is equivlent to DC's Supreme Being. Only TOAA was able to withstand Thanos with HOTU, therefore he's obviously above all.
I'm not even gonna continue arguing this, you're point was rediculous bro
All your opinion. Dc's supreme being has been stated in bios and on panel to be Yahweh with his many aspects in creation being the Presence, Word, Source etc. Its all been stated many a time on panel.
TOAA has never ever been stated to be Marvels supreme being. ALL that has been said is that it is LTs master and that it is a power greater than the IG. That is not conclusive confirmation that it is TOAA. It has been suggested but thats all. Please understand that. 😉
{All your opinion. Dc's supreme being has been stated in bios and on panel to be Yahweh with his many aspects in creation being the Presence, Word, Source etc. Its all been stated many a time on panel.
TOAA has never ever been stated to be Marvels supreme being. ALL that has been said is that it is LTs master and that it is a power greater than the IG. That is not conclusive confirmation that it is TOAA. It has been suggested but thats all. Please understand that. }
Okay..I understand. Does it HAVE to be confirmed however? Does someone from Marvel have to write a letter to us saying "The One Above All" is the supreme being of Marvel, no ifs ands or buts.
"Ohhhh okay...now I can argue"
Just because Marvel doesn't clarify it, and put "suggestions" to imply that he/she is the supreme being, doesn't make it untrue.
Common Sense may help. If Living Tribunal is the judge of all realities in Marvel, and his power comes from ONE source above him, which makes the Infiniti Gauntlet "pale in comparison", AND this being is called "THE ONE ABOVE ALL"
then I'll assume that he is the ONE ABOVE ALL...sorta meaning SUPREME BEING...UNLESS Marvel does a DBZ and makes a "ONE ABOVE THE ONE ABOVE ALL" and so on.
BTW, i actually prefer Marvel's TOAA to Yahweh. TOAA since we dont know anything about him is up to infinite intepretation, therefore we can imagine him/her in our own versions, it engages the reader to volunteer.
DC/Vertigo's Yahweh is cool, but cheesy, limitted Christian interpretation (no offense), and since we get to know him, he's less of a mystery to us. Also he looks like the Mr. Monopoly guy.
BTW I love ur pheonix image. PHEONIX KICS ARSE !!!!!!
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It was stated in her that she can render herself totally indestructible and we have seen her keep her phsyical body alive from injuries that would prove fatal to a mortal body, because it was her wish to do so. All canon. Thats good enough. 😉
No, it's not GS. 👇
She's dead currently, and it's canon.
Not only is she dead, she was killed by Xorn, who caused her a massive stroke with a global yield EMP in her head.
Regardless of what her bio says, per canon events in the comics, and her current status of deceased/inactive, she can be, and has been killed due to Jean's human ineptitude.
Per canon, Jean can be beaten. She's currently beaten and dead in continuity.
Originally posted by illadelph12
No, it's not GS. 👇She's [b]dead
currently, and it's canon.Not only is she dead, she was killed by Xorn, who caused her a massive stroke with a global yield EMP in her head.
Regardless of what her bio says, per canon events in the comics, and her current status of deceased/inactive, she can be, and has been killed due to Jean's human ineptitude.
Per canon, Jean can be beaten. She's currently beaten and dead in continuity. [/B]
She returned to life in the future, and Im pretty sure Perfection; Black Queen of the Hell fire club is Jean. You can't kill someone who exists outside of time, they wouldn't permit it, unless they wanted to commit suicide, but there is no evidence of this. 🙂
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
{All your opinion. Dc's supreme being has been stated in bios and on panel to be Yahweh with his many aspects in creation being the Presence, Word, Source etc. Its all been stated many a time on panel.TOAA has never ever been stated to be Marvels supreme being. ALL that has been said is that it is LTs master and that it is a power greater than the IG. That is not conclusive confirmation that it is TOAA. It has been suggested but thats all. Please understand that. }
[QUOTE=6491093]Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[B]Okay..I understand. Does it HAVE to be confirmed however? Does someone from Marvel have to write a letter to us saying "The One Above All" is the supreme being of Marvel, no ifs ands or buts."Ohhhh okay...now I can argue"
Just because Marvel doesn't clarify it, and put "suggestions" to imply that he/she is the supreme being, doesn't make it untrue.
Youre right, just because it hasnt been stated doesnt necessarily make it untrue as it has bveen suggested however what it does make ot is non canon and as such we cant claim him to be Marvels God in debate.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Common Sense may help. If Living Tribunal is the judge of all realities in Marvel, and his power comes from ONE source above him, which makes the Infiniti Gauntlet "pale in comparison", AND this being is called "THE ONE ABOVE ALL"then I'll assume that he is the ONE ABOVE ALL...sorta meaning SUPREME BEING...UNLESS Marvel does a DBZ and makes a "ONE ABOVE THE ONE ABOVE ALL" and so on.
By that logic i can say that Phoenix is linked to God as it has been stated to be the life force of realities, it has feats which place it above the Ig, its power has been shown on panel to be capable of humbling LT and it serves an unseen consciousness which exists beyond creation and directs it. On top of that theres a Celestial called TOAA so youre logic about his name being enough is faulty as well.
While there have been allusions to LT's master being the God of Marvel, until its actually stated you cant treat it as fact, because of the aforementioned reasons.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
BTW, i actually prefer Marvel's TOAA to Yahweh. TOAA since we dont know anything about him is up to infinite intepretation, therefore we can imagine him/her in our own versions, it engages the reader to volunteer.DC/Vertigo's Yahweh is cool, but cheesy, limitted Christian interpretation (no offense), and since we get to know him, he's less of a mystery to us. Also he looks like the Mr. Monopoly guy.
Agreed.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
BTW I love ur pheonix image. PHEONIX KICS ARSE !!!!!!
Thank u. 😎
Originally posted by illadelph12
No, it's not GS. 👇She's [b]dead
currently, and it's canon.Not only is she dead, she was killed by Xorn, who caused her a massive stroke with a global yield EMP in her head.
Regardless of what her bio says, per canon events in the comics, and her current status of deceased/inactive, she can be, and has been killed due to Jean's human ineptitude.
Per canon, Jean can be beaten. She's currently beaten and dead in continuity. [/B]
Please keep up to speed on current continuity Ill. It will stop you wasting your time with posts like this. 😉
As per current continuity as stated in the bio Jeans physical body was destroyed and a few weeks later (Remember Jean got rid of Here Comes Tomorrow) Jean came back to life again because the Shiar awakened her prematurely and she is now currently in the White Hot Room incubating until her next manifestation. 😄
If you read the latest issue of Uncanny you will see that Rachel is annoyed that her mother hasnt manifested back on Earth again especially when her polar opposite (The First Fallen) has decided to manifest on Earth. 😱
spectre holds LT in his hands like LT did one pheonix avatar, and the pheonix dieing in any reality is not that bad all those beings are just avatars meaning there just instruments of the power not the power themselves they dont hold all the power some have more some have less, for example juggs is an avatar of cyttorak whom eternity couldnt get rid of but does that mean eternity cant get rid of juggernaut no that isnt true cause eternity has smacked juggs down, my point is that just cause one avatar dies doesnt mean anything to the PF as a whole same thing with darkseid he gets womped by supes and other lower beings but now in fairness to his power they have contributed to avatars since he is what he is a cosmic being essential to the DC
{{{{Youre right, just because it hasnt been stated doesnt necessarily make it untrue as it has bveen suggested however what it does make ot is non canon and as such we cant claim him to be Marvels God in debate.}}}
If you want to debate more in literal, current, set in stone facts, than yeah we cannot claim Marvel's TOAA to be its actual God. And yeah that thing about the Celestial being called TOAA totally confuses everything. However, the true TOAA doesn't have to be God necessarily. What do we know about him?
Or bro, what do you know about him?
1) If he truly infinite in power? Not like IG infinite, but truly complete Infinite ?
2) Is he a multiversal or omniversal being ?
3) Has there been any other character to be shown above The One Above All So far ?
If yes to all three, I think we can safely ASSUME he's Marvel's God. But that word "GOD"...does he have to be actually GOD? What if "God" doesn't exist in Marvel like people beleive he does in real life, or like he does in DC.....does that automatically lessen who he is ?
I think we're too bound to this idea of God and/or Supreme Being. The Supreme Being does not have to be God from ANY religion.
The only thing that goes in your favor, in my opinion, about TOAA not being the supreme being in Marvel's Entirety is the fact that Classic Beyonder was shown to be truly infinite as well.
If Classic Beyonder did still exist, just for arguments sake, he might be on the SAME level as TOAA ....what would be the difference ? They both would have the same powers.......just one is immature, while the other is supposedly mature....I guess lol
{{{{By that logic i can say that Phoenix is linked to God as it has been stated to be the life force of realities, it has feats which place it above the Ig, its power has been shown on panel to be capable of humbling LT and it serves an unseen consciousness which exists beyond creation and directs it. On top of that theres a Celestial called TOAA so youre logic about his name being enough is faulty as well.}}}}
Since we're talking about CURRENT IG, I cannot argue with you here.
{{{While there have been allusions to LT's master being the God of Marvel, until its actually stated you cant treat it as fact, because of the aforementioned reasons.}}}}
So what..it doesn't have to treated like GOD OF MARVEL...depending on which or what GOD ur referring too. Again, like I already said, it doesn't have to be the SAME GOD from any of our familiar religions.
Just remmeber, not everyone believes in God, so "GOD" himself is not going to the universal standard for an Imaginary Supreme Being.
NOW...whether or not TOAA is actually Marvel's Supreme Being....that I guess is debatable. Who says Classic Beyonder isn't exactly on par with today's TOAA ?
I couldnt even be bothered to read that rant. It was unnecessary as you have no proof that shows TOAA is Marvels supreme being. It was all just your opinion.
The point stands that while LTs master is certainly suggested to be God, by canon LT's master is NOT God/ the supreme being therefore you cant claim him to be so in debate. Its as simple as that, no long paragraphs required.
Originally posted by S.S
"no long paragraphs required"
That's funny coming from you.......... 😛
Ahhh, but theres a difference.When i post them, theyre coherent and fact filled and therefore debatably necessary and certainly relevant, not a rant featuring nothing but my personal opinion. 😉
Originally posted by S.S
GS let them know that TOAA is really the "first fallen" the opposite of the phoenix force........ 😉
You read the issue yet? I cant wait to find out more about this "First Fallen" 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ahhh, but theres a difference.When i post them, theyre coherent and fact filled and therefore debatably necessary and certainly relevant, not a rant featuring nothing but my personal opinion. 😉
You read the issue yet? I cant wait to find out more about this "First Fallen" 🙂
{{{I couldnt even be bothered to read that rant.}}}}
Since you won't bother reading anything I argue, you have no place to make a response to what I said.
{{{{{ It was unnecessary as you have no proof that shows TOAA is Marvels supreme being. It was all just your opinion. }}}
I never SAID did...but yes its my opinion, and the opinon of many Marvel readers. Tell them they're wrong bro.
{{{The point stands that while LTs master is certainly suggested to be God, by canon LT's master is NOT God/ the supreme being therefore you cant claim him to be so in debate. Its as simple as that, no long paragraphs required.}}}}
Everone has been comparing TOAA to The Presence/Yahweh on these forums. Is there a reason why I cannot do so, while everyone else can ?