Karnak VS. Batman... Hand to hand combat!!! · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait what speed feats does Bats have that put him over Karnak?

🤨

Batman's the far more established character here. A better question is; 'What speed feats does KARNAK have to his name that puts him on Batman's level?'

Originally posted by darthgoober

[B]Speed
Blitzing several of Magneto’s goons…
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1163/amazingadv197100918nz1.jpg
Blitzing several Kree solders…
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9534/inhumansv101010nj2.jpg
*Takes out 4 soldiers before he touches the ground after jumping…
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Inhumans_TGR_1995_001_29.jpg
Evading an energized lasso and sweeps it wielder…
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5170/ffannual0516ru8.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1637/ffannual0517dd3.jpg
Vibrates hand in order to hit Vision while he’s intangible…
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4471/avengersv1ann1229yq3.jpg
Senses and utilizes weak points in falling stones before they hit the ground…
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3311/fful1103nl8.jpg
*More falling stone shattering…
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/random%20comic%20feats/Inhumans-v1-03-03.jpg
[/b]

This should look very familiar. None of it looks superior to Bruce, to me. So much for Karnak's super-awesome-better-inhuman physiology. 😬.

Not to even mention his only real direct comparisons against a real martial artist - and we're back to the T'Challa issue.

T'Challa stomping on him twice with the utmost of ease leads us to only one conclusions; Batman'd do the same, and faster.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
You can't equate this with human < inhuman.
ESPECIALLY when crossing universes.
All the evidence you need is in Captain America. He has feats that put him above some people that DO have low level superhuman strength or speed - yet he still is only 'peak human.'
When you cross universes, the line becomes even blurrier. Batman is a DC Human which may not be exactly the same as a Marvel Human. Past that, he has also been compared to metahumans on more than one occasion, implying that due to his intense training, he is no longer 'merely' human.

This isn't a matter of human<Inhuman in general, just in the creditability of the feats themselves. Batman taking a full on punch from a class 50 and walking away unharmed is BS no matter how you cut it because we know for a fact that the body of even a peak human shouldn't be able to take it. For someone with actual super human durability though, shrugging off a class 50 punch is a lot more creditable.

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by darthgoober
This isn't a matter of human<Inhuman in general, just in the creditability of the feats themselves. Batman taking a full on punch from a class 50 and walking away unharmed is BS no matter how you cut it because we know for a fact that the body of even a peak human shouldn't be able to take it. For someone with actual super human durability though, shrugging off a class 50 punch is a lot more creditable.

However, despite what 'bios' may lead you to believe, Batman doing it over, and over, and over again, from Superman, Wonder Woman, Grundy, Marvel, Black Adam, et cetera DOES lend it some credibility.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
🤨
Batman's the far more established character here. A better question is; 'What speed feats does KARNAK have to his name that puts him on Batman's level?'
This should look very familiar. None of it looks superior to Bruce, to me. So much for Karnak's super-awesome-better-inhuman physiology. 😬.
Not to even mention his only real direct comparisons against a real martial artist - and we're back to the T'Challa issue.
T'Challa stomping on him twice with the utmost of ease leads us to only one conclusions; Batman'd do the same, and faster.

Batman may be more established, but I personally don't know of any speed feats which puts him over Karnak. As I said, to me it seems as though their speed is comparable. The area's I mentioned Karnak being superior in were strength and durability.

Battlehammer Senior Member

but remeber batman has armor designed for such things

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
However, despite what 'bios' may lead you to believe, Batman doing it over, and over, and over again, from Superman, Wonder Woman, Grundy, Marvel, Black Adam, et cetera DOES lend it some credibility.

What so you think we should bump Captain America and Batman up to Iron Man level on the tier list now?

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by darthgoober
What so you think we should bump Captain America and Batman up to Iron Man level on the tier list now?

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. doped.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
Kindly do not put words in my mouth. doped.

But despite what the bios say, they constantly do things that would put them there don't they? I mean, both have taken shots from and knocked around class 100's on a pretty consistent basis, so if the consistency dictates that their feats are actually valid, then both need a MAJOR bump.

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by darthgoober
they constantly do things that would put them there don't they?

Nope. But they do plenty of things to give them the win over Karnak.

llagrok Restricted

How about this.

Rick Jones has withstood blows from the Hulk. Let's get that sucker up to high meta. Batman with his suit and batman without his suit makes a world of difference. Batman is above peak human when he has his suit on.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
why would a skill MA need to do any of that......
msot of what your bringing up has nothing to do with this fight

It has everything to do with this fight.

You claim that Karnak's ability is nothing special for skilled martial artists. Yet when I give you feats that no martial artist can copy, you claim that it's not relevant.

Please explain your logic.

Originally posted by Soljer
Nope. But they do plenty of things to give them the win over Karnak.

Scans?

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
Nope. But they do plenty of things to give them the win over Karnak.

I think that hanging with guys on par with Namor EVERY time he goes up against them would count as consistently putting Cap there.

And what is this "plenty" that they do that puts them over Karnak?

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by darthgoober
I think that hanging with guys on par with Namor EVERY time he goes up against them would count as consistently putting Cap there.
And what is this "plenty" that they do that puts them over Karnak?

Well, if you think that Cap's feats justify it, go argue it in the tier thread, I hardly see why you're bringing up Cap and Batman being 'iron man' level here...

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
Well, if you think that Cap's feats justify it, go argue it in the tier thread, I hardly see why you're bringing up Cap and Batman being 'iron man' level here...

Because you're trying to act like Batman(who lacks superhuman durability) taking a superhuman punch is as creditable as Karnak(who HAS superhuman durability) doing the same.

And you never gave me Bat's feats that put him over Karnak.

llagrok Restricted

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because you're trying to act like Batman(who lacks superhuman durability) taking a superhuman punch is as creditable as Karnak(who HAS superhuman durability) doing the same.
And you never gave me Bat's feats that put him over Karnak.

That's because Soljer doesn't provide scans unless he's incredibly devoted to a thread.

Which is.... never..

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by llagrok
That's because Soljer doesn't provide scans unless he's incredibly devoted to a thread.
Which is.... never..

Nah Soljer's cool. Truth be told, this may actually be the only time we've ended up on opposite sides of a debate(though there may be another time that I'm forgetting).

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by llagrok
That's because Soljer doesn't provide scans unless he's incredibly devoted to a thread.
Which is.... never..

Untrue.

My casual discussions about a thread are far more common than the times I'm truly devoted to a thread, but it isn't exactly 'never.'

llagrok Restricted

Originally posted by Soljer
Untrue.
My casual discussions about a thread are far more common than the times I'm truly devoted to a thread, but it isn't exactly 'never.'

Normally your opinions don't conflict with simple reason and logic. This case isn't different because I'm disagree with you, I've disagreed with you plenty of times but you've never resorted to this kind of debating.

You automatically assume that Batman's speed is above Karnak's and that he is more durable. You have every right to make that claim, but when you make it without backing it up with ANYTHING you shouldn't bother to discuss at all.

Daredevil1 Senior Member

Karnak hasn't looked to good against Black Panther and this was not once but twice.

Cap KO'ed Karnak via sneak attack, then again Cap has KO'ed a lot of people with his shield. So no disrespect to Karnac.

But Bats record against his street-verse looks more impressive that K's records against his. IMO Bats 6/10

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by llagrok
Normally your opinions don't conflict with simple reason and logic. This case isn't different because I'm disagree with you, I've disagreed with you plenty of times but you've never resorted to this kind of debating.
You automatically assume that Batman's speed is above Karnak's and that he is more durable. You have every right to make that claim, but when you make it without backing it up with ANYTHING you shouldn't bother to discuss at all.

I wasn't claiming Batman's win based off of durability - I was just disputing Karnak's 'insurmountable advantage' in that arena.

I was claiming that Batman wins because he has speed that's easily on par with the person who has trashed Karnak on multiple occasions, and has skill that surpasses either of them.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Soljer
I wasn't claiming Batman's win based off of durability - I was just disputing Karnak's 'insurmountable advantage' in that arena.
I was claiming that Batman wins because he has speed that's easily on par with the person who has trashed Karnak on multiple occasions, and has skill that surpasses either of them.

I never said that Karnak had an "insurmountable" advantage in durability(otherwise I wouldn't have said that Batman could win a few), just that he DOES have a fairly significant durability advantage. Karnak's lowest showings as far as durability goes is going down to BP, but those are offset by his taking shrugging off shots from guys like Gorgon and Blackbolt. And given that Karnak actually has superhuman durability, his durability showings are more creditable than Batmans(who's still basically human).

If you want to say that Batman wins because of *insert valid Batman feats here* that's fine with me. I haven't followed Batman closely in a while so it's entirely possible that I'm missing something. But your saying that Batman wins because BP did is ABC logic that's right along the same lines as quanchi saying that Glads should beat Darkseid for the majority just because Supes did multiple times now, or that Hulk can resist a blitz from Supes just because Doomsday did 😬 .