Darth Maul vs ROTJ Vader

Started by kamikz10 pages
kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Yes, the EU is valid, but it does not outweigh the movies, and nowhere in the movies did he ever move that fast or block attacks at that speed. It does however, show him getting beaten down by Luke, who was moving way slower than that and had much less accuracy.

You should, because it biasses the fight. Just because one character beats another (because the plot requires them to) it does not mean they could do so again.

Dude neither Palpatine or Mace showed to be in a speed even half of TPM Kenobi, so they would be outspeeded by him?

Lightsnake Senior Member

And it doesn't contradict the movies, so the EU is fine. Vader never has a reason to move that fast in the movies. And Luke was going fast. And swinging well enough

I'm afraid Vaderr's beaten Maul before. Vader beat Maul. He got better. And Maul nwas being aided by three prophets. Period. Maul had every advantage and Vader still won.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Indeed, Ray Park isn't Darth Maul, but that does nothing to change the statement I made, which you cannot refute. Shadow Hunter showed how fast Maul could move (much faster than TPM) and that clip shows that had such moves been required in the film, then they would have been performable.

As I said above: Just because one character beats another (because the plot requires them to) it does not mean they could do so again.

I thought you said that the movies outweight those in your previous post?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
Dude neither Palpatine or Mace showed to be in a speed even half of TPM Kenobi, so they would be outspeeded by him?

Totally irrelevent, and I'm not even going to answer it. Don't try and drag the thread off topic.
Prove that in RotJ, Vader blocked blows as fast as the ones Ray is performing (and that Shadow Hunter said that he could do)

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

WTF! You say that EU is outweighted by the movies, even in fights. Then when I say that in the movies Palpatine and Mace move slow you say it is irrelivent. WTF!

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And it doesn't contradict the movies, so the EU is fine. Vader never has a reason to move that fast in the movies. And Luke was going fast. And swinging well enough

It does contradict the movie if it's saying a character could do something that they blatantly could not do on screen.
Prove that in RotJ, Vader blocked blows as fast as the ones Ray is performing (and that Shadow Hunter said that he could do)

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm afraid Vaderr's beaten Maul before. Vader beat Maul. He got better. And Maul nwas being aided by three prophets. Period. Maul had every advantage and Vader still won.

Again, plot necessity, because Vader had to win. It is a biassed outcome, so does not reflect the true skills of the characters.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Umm...Vader never has a reason to go full in the movies, does he? So moving faster in other situations means nothing.

Vader still won! and since he won, in universe it means he had more skills! And he only got better

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
I thought you said that the movies outweight those in your previous post?

That's absolutely right. It only contradicts the movie if it's saying a character could do something that they blatantly could not do on screen.
The script of TPM required that Maul lose. It did not require that he won. Had it required him to move as fast as he did in SH, then he would have done so, as it was something the actor protraying him could do.

Lightsnake Senior Member

So Maul CAN'T move as fast as he did in Shadow Hunte.r Can't have it both ways, hypocrite

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
WTF! You say that EU is outweighted by the movies, even in fights. Then when I say that in the movies Palpatine and Mace move slow you say it is irrelivent. WTF!

What have Mace, Palpatine and Obi-Wan got to do with a fight between Vader and Maul? Absolutely f*ck all. It was an irrelevent point.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So Maul CAN'T move as fast as he did in Shadow Hunte.r Can't have it both ways, hypocrite

There's nothing to say he can't move as fast as in SH, so I've said nothing hypocritical.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Lol. So if this is a fight between two guys, comparing them to two other guys is who are better is irrelivent, because they are just not the same guys? Please, your a hypocrite. You say that movies outweight EU in fights, but then you contradict yourself right after. Heres an example...

"You can't say that Vader can move that fast, he didn't show it in the movies....
But Maul has show in Shadow Hunter that he can move that fast, so in TPM it doesn't matter....."

WTF!!!!

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Umm...Vader never has a reason to go full in the movies, does he? So moving faster in other situations means nothing.

He didn't, but, there's nothing to suggest that he could have done if he wanted to either, seeing how easily Luke overcame him in their final duel. Again, prove that Vader blocked moves that fast onscreen. Fact is, you can't.

Lightsnake Senior Member

And nothing saying Vader can't move fast as he did elsewhere

Generic Hero KGB
He didn't, but, there's nothing to suggest that he could have done if he wanted to either, seeing how easily Luke overcame him in their final duel. Again, prove that Vader blocked moves that fast onscreen. Fact is, you can't.

He was good enough to hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
Lol. So if this is a fight between two guys, comparing them to two other guys is who are better is irrelivent, because they are just not the same guys?

Again. What would Palpatine and Mace have to do with a fight between Vader and Maul?
Stop mentioning them. They play no part in this. THEY ARE IRRELEVENT

Originally posted by kamikz
Please, your a hypocrite. You say that movies outweight EU in fights, but then you contradict yourself right after. Heres an example...

"You can't say that Vader can move that fast, he didn't show it in the movies....
But Maul has show in Shadow Hunter that he can move that fast, so in TPM it doesn't matter....."

WTF!!!!

SH showed how fast Maul could move if he had to. TPM did not require him to move that fast because he had to lose. If he had not had to lose, then there is nothing in TPM to contradict SH.
The EU LightSnake is refering to IS contradicted by the movie of RotJ, which shows precicely how fast Vader can (or more accurately, cannot) block. It is a clear case of one EU being contradicted by the movie, and the other not, so I said nothing hypocritical, and do not misquote me, because you just embarass yourself.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And nothing saying Vader can't move fast as he did elsewhere

Seeing how he got beaten down by Luke, I'd say that's pretty conclusive that he couldn't move as fast as the EU portrayed.
Again, prove that he could block that fast in the movie RotJ.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Generic Hero
He was good enough to hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with how fast he was moving in RotJ.

Lightsnake Senior Member

oooh, but according to you he wasn't fighting seriously in ROTJ, invalid point. Plus, Luke was was moving fast enough. No contradictions.

and Vader still beat Maul.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
oooh, but according to you he wasn't fighting seriously in ROTJ, invalid point. Plus, Luke was was moving fast enough. No contradictions.

Luke was not moving as fast as in that clip. Nowhere near as fast.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and Vader still beat Maul.

Once more, Vader beat Maul in a biassed fight that Vader had to win. How would it look if a comic was written showing Vader getting killed earlier than he did in the actual movies?