>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Reply from your Star Wars Blog
>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:32:35 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 4/20/2006 1:30:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>[email protected] writes:
>
>One final question though, In the Book Tales of the Jedi Golden Age of the
>Sith there is a quote saying Markas Ragnos "The most powerful of the
>powerful" is that to be taken as refrence only to the ancient Sith Lords? Or
>is this quote Retconned altogether?
>
>
>Well, keep in mind that the Golden Age of the Sith book is set 5000 years
>before the movies, so it's possible that Marka Ragnos was the most powerful Sith
> at that time -- and much later, Sidious later broke that record.
>
>Best,
> Dan
From how some posters treat dissenters, you'd never know that.
Here's the link Styles sent me: http://by24fd.bay24.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1145554363.11&start=8148&len=3358&imgsafe=n&curmbox=F000000001&a=ac2f45813a3edeffd2d844fd3a8bf9d3941b31346376c1e61c716a8111788377
Oh dear Lord where to begin...
Lightsnake, I've read your previous argument on this topic, and you were royally curbstomped in it. Sidious does not pwn all. In fact, if I recall, in ROTJ (and as a warning, most of my sources are the movies and their novelizations, along with the few books after ROTJ that I've read), I seem to remember his own ****ing apprentice turning on him and throwing him down a damn vent shaft thing. If he's so very powerful, how is it that he cannot control his own servants?
Secondly, in ROTS, Yoda and Sidious are more or less evenly matched, until they are BOTH thrown backwards by Sid's lightning. Yoda simply had the misfortune to be thrown off the edge. If that fight had continued, Yoda, the 900 year old Grandmaster of the Jedi Order would have beaten Sidious down.
Thirdly, also in ROTS (movie and novelization), Sidious outright SAYS that Anakin would become more powerful than either himself or Yoda. Granted, Anakin did not fulfill this (although I consider that point arguable for other reasons that are not related to this argument), one would think that if Sids was the most powerful Sith Lord in HISTORY, there would NEVER be anyone more powerful than him.
Finally, in the book Dark Apprentice of the NJO series, Exar Kun embodies himself as a ****ing spirit, and then proceeded to pwn Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi of the time, as well as most of the New Jedi Academy as such. I don't believe Sidious has ever displayed such power.
Lightsnake, I've read your previous argument on this topic, and you were royally curbstomped in it. Sidious does not pwn all. In fact, if I recall, in ROTJ (and as a warning, most of my sources are the movies and their novelizations, along with the few books after ROTJ that I've read), I seem to remember his own ****ing apprentice turning on him and throwing him down a damn vent shaft thing. If he's so very powerful, how is it that he cannot control his own servants?
Pretty much every Sith Lord suffered the same thing.
Thirdly, also in ROTS (movie and novelization), Sidious outright SAYS that Anakin would become more powerful than either himself or Yoda. Granted, Anakin did not fulfill this (although I consider that point arguable for other reasons that are not related to this argument), one would think that if Sids was the most powerful Sith Lord in HISTORY, there would NEVER be anyone more powerful than him.
...? History refers to the past.
Y'know, when you think about it, Revolver's right...about every Sith in history has been backstabbed...Ajunta Pall's sword was the end of him, Dathka Graush was assassinated, Kun was betrayed by his own people, Freedon Nadd died in a rebellion, Sadow was killed by his student, Nadd was destroyed by his student, Plageuis was killed by his student, Kaan and his buddies...almost every Sith Lord preceeding Kaan in the new empire was betrayed...
And Sidious expected Anakin to become stronger than him, Mustafar...changed that
Heh, I once heard a theory that Palpatine's precognition allowed him to know that Vader would be crippled.
At first I thought it was crazy, but after looking into things it seems possible.
- Palpatine needed Vader the most at the Rise of the Empire. He was the supposed to be Palpy's Dark Knight against the Jedi. At this point in ROTS, Anakin is fairly weak minded but very powerful... Best case scenario for Palpatine.
- Palpatine should have been aware Vader would become more powerful than himself... and following Sith traditions attempt to seize control and dominance.
- Palpatine was a damn good manipulator, but unless he grossly overestimated his abilities (he was arrogant, I know), he could not expect to keep a mental dominance on Anakin forever.
- Anakin was the Chosen One... not sure if Palpatine knew of this, but it would have counted for a bit.
Yet he still kept Vader...
Yes, but all of those apprentices were able to overthrow their masters because they were stronger than them. Vader was statistically weaker than Sidious. As well, the other apprentices overthrew their masters for personal gain, Vader didn't. Logically, every Sith Lord in history hasn't suffered the same thing, because every Sith Lord was succeeded by a stronger student.
Also, you are right, my use of the word history there was incorrect, but the fact remains, if Sids was supposedly the strongest Sith Lord ever, then why would he go to such lengths to purposefully find a student that was stronger than he was? If he was truly so powerful as to claim knowledge of Plageius' death defying Force powers, then it would seem that he actually had no need of an apprentice.
And, before you start citing that Plageus was unable to save himself from death, he was murdered in his sleep. Not much you can do with the Force if you're already dead.
Yes, but all of those apprentices were able to overthrow their masters because they were stronger than them. Vader was statistically weaker than Sidious. As well, the other apprentices overthrew their masters for personal gain, Vader didn't. Logically, every Sith Lord in history hasn't suffered the same thing, because every Sith Lord was succeeded by a stronger student.
Incorrect. Ludo Kressh betrayed Naga Sadow (and viceversa!). Ulic Qel Droma betrayed Exar Kun. Darth Malak betrayed Darth Revan. Darth Sidious betrayed Darth Plageuis in his sleep.
In each case, the betrayer was not stronger. You should really look more into the history of the Sith.