Originally posted by Gay Luke
I'm not going to insult you but I will say your concept of logic or your logic itself is very off. First off, Sidious DIDn't win, see my previous post for reasoning. Second of all, if A=B when B has the advantage, then logic would tell you that most likely A>B if all things remain constant.
Whats to say that A=B? If Yoda was on par with Sids when Sids had the high ground why did he run away? If it was A=B there was still as bigger chance as Yoda winning as Sids had at winning. And judging by the importance of the battle Yoda would have stayed to fight if he thought he could win or had good enough odds at winning.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Whats to say that A=B? If Yoda was on par with Sids when Sids had the high ground why did he run away? If it was A=B there was still as bigger chance as Yoda winning as Sids had at winning. And judging by the importance of the battle Yoda would have stayed to fight if he thought he could win or had good enough odds at winning.
Why did he run away? Well lets see, Yoda isn't Michael Jordan so he can't just 200+ feet into the air, storm troopers were coming, etc.. And yes they were A=B according to the fight, and according to GL, they were the most powerful of their respective sides.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
-It was an ABC argument.
One with a proof source.
"Yoda and Mace are on Par."
Mace beat Sidious. Yoda was on par but Sidious had the high ground. If Yoda was in Mace's position . . .
You do the Math, son.
-When somone flees a fight, they still lose...its just they were lucky enough to escape with their life.
No. Yoda didn't lose. Lucas said it himself and what happened in that fight is direct proof Yoda did not lose that battle.
The enviroment is largely a useless factor in any given fight, being that BOTH combatants are fully capable of using it to their advantage. Yoda was beaten...the movie hints at it, the book states it in clear writing. Give it up.
Yoda didn't have a chance. Sidious had been throwing pods at him and such. Sidious needed that high ground to defea . . . Oh sorry, try to defeat Yoda.
At least Yoda got the chance to leave. After Yoda used the force to vigorously shove Sidious into a chair, Sidious tried to run. At least Yoda recieved some real damage (From his own blast, of course.) before fleeing.
The book is nullified and isn't canon, the movie clearly shows Yoda's own blast throwing him and Sidious off the pod, and Lucas said they stalemated.
YOU give it up because your proof-less and your argument is stale.
Originally posted by Odoyle Rules
Why did he run away? Well lets see, Yoda isn't Michael Jordan so he can't just 200+ feet into the air, storm troopers were coming, etc.. And yes they were A=B according to the fight, and according to GL, they were the most powerful of their respective sides.
Stormtroopers are a very small factor. Yoda would pwn them in a matter of seconds. I dont think stormtroopers would influence the outcome of the most important duel of Yodas life. And whats to say the darkside isnt stronger than the light. If they are both the most powerful of their respective sides and the darkside is stronger then it make sense that Sids is stronger.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im not saying that Yoda wouldnt win on flat ground. What im saying is that because Sids won (Yes won!) the fight in ROTS it is only logical that he coud win on flat ground as well. For the record I agree that Sids was probably only winning from the high ground but he was smart enough to get there in the first place. There is no reason to say he wouldnt outsmart Yoda again on flat ground.
Sidious never won the fight. That's the problem.
What's makes you think he would outsmart Yoda on flat ground? He couldn't do it WITH the advantage. What's he going to be WITHOUT it?
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Stormtroopers are a very small factor. Yoda would pwn them in a matter of seconds. I dont think stormtroopers would influence the outcome of the most important duel of Yodas life. And whats to say the darkside isnt stronger than the light. If they are both the most powerful of their respective sides and the darkside is stronger then it make sense that Sids is stronger.
If Sidious is stronger, why couldn't he defeat Mace, Oxboy?
Originally posted by Antediluvian
Sidious never won the fight. That's the problem.What's makes you think he would outsmart Yoda on flat ground? He couldn't do it WITH the advantage. What's he going to be WITHOUT it?
He outsmarted Yoda to get the advantage. Yoda had the same opportunities to get the high ground but didnt which means Sids is the smarter fighter.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Whats to say that A=B? If Yoda was on par with Sids when Sids had the high ground why did he run away? If it was A=B there was still as bigger chance as Yoda winning as Sids had at winning. And judging by the importance of the battle Yoda would have stayed to fight if he thought he could win or had good enough odds at winning.
Well, throughout the "OT Yoda/OT Obi-Wan vs. OT Vader/OT Emporer" thread, you were using GL's quote as the evidence of Obi-Wan being superior to Yoda in ANH, so if this is the case then:
He didn't BEAT Sidious, I don't understand where this is coming from. It was a COMPLETE stalemate at the end, confirmed by GL on his DVD commentary.
If it was confirmed by "God Almighty" himself that it was a stalemate, then it was a stalemate, and we all know Sidious had the obvious advantage during that fight. Then it's not so illogical to claim that it wouldn't be a stalemate if the fight was on even ground, and Yoda, having the weaker standpoint during the fight, would win.
Basically, it's just like everyone's been saying, they were = in an uneven fight, so the one who had the disadvantage should be able to defeat the one who had the advantage if it were an even fight.
Originally posted by Antediluvian
If Sidious is stronger, why couldn't he defeat Mace, Oxboy?
That fight has little to do with what we are talking about. The outcome coud have been that Mace won because he was influenced by both sides of the force. Or Sids could have faked defeat because he seemed to have a lot more sith lightning in reserve.
Originally posted by Motoko Kusanagi
Well, throughout the "OT Yoda/OT Obi-Wan vs. OT Vader/OT Emporer" thread, you were using GL's quote as the evidence of Obi-Wan being superior to Yoda in ANH, so if this is the case then:If it was confirmed by "God Almighty" himself that it was a stalemate, then it was a stalemate, and we all know Sidious had the obvious advantage during that fight. Then it's not so illogical to claim that it wouldn't be a stalemate if the fight was on even ground, and Yoda, having the weaker standpoint during the fight, would win.
Basically, it's just like everyone's been saying, they were = in an uneven fight, so the one who had the disadvantage should be able to defeat the one who had the advantage if it were an even fight.
It was because Sids OUTSMARTED Yoda to get the high ground that it was an uneven fight. It would have been an uneven fight if Yoda had the high ground but he didnt because Sids bet him to it. The fight was a stalemate because Yoda ran away. If the match had kept going Sids would have won. And yes there is every chance Yoda would win on a Tatooine desert but what im saying is because Sids, lets say 'had the advantage', in ROTS it only logical that he would 'have the advantage' again.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
That fight has little to do with what we are talking about. The outcome coud have been that Mace won because he was influenced by both sides of the force. Or Sids could have faked defeat because he seemed to have a lot more sith lightning in reserve.
And if Yoda was black... he'd be able to jump farther...
Silly assumptions like these won't win you any arguments. Yoda and Sidious stalemated when Sidious had the high ground.
Did you see what happened to Anakin when he went against the guy with the high ground?
Originally posted by Rampant ox
He outsmarted Yoda to get the advantage. Yoda had the same opportunities to get the high ground but didnt which means Sids is the smarter fighter.
No, It means Sidious is the more cowardly fighter and tried to rid of Yoda quickly. That would be why he tried to run in the first place.
And what made you think he outsmarted him? Yoda didn't have time to get up there. He was dodging pods. And when he did try, Sidious ran again.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
It was because Sids OUTSMARTED Yoda to get the high ground that it was an uneven fight. It would have been an uneven fight if Yoda had the high ground but he didnt because Sids bet him to it. The fight was a stalemate because Yoda ran away. If the match had kept going Sids would have won. And yes there is every chance Yoda would win on a Tatooine desert but what im saying is because Sids, lets say 'had the advantage', in ROTS it only logical that he would 'have the advantage' again.
You're still missing the point. Regardless of how Sidious made it uneven, it was still an uneven fight, and it was a stalemate. The fight was stalemate because they both fell. Put Yoda back up there with no stormtroopers on the way, see if Sidious could take him himself. Just stop posting on this topic.