OT Emperor & OT Vader vs Old Ben Kenobi & OT Yoda.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
But GL shows us that Yoda exists in ESB. This would mean that he exists in ANH which would then mean that Obi-Wan is stronger than him. Back in 1977 you would have a valid argument but now in 2006 and we know Yoda was alive in ANH your theory goes out the window.

That's an unfounded assumption ox. Because the character exists in setting B, means he exists in setting A, is a logical fallacy. It doesn't matter WHAT we know in 2007, the movies are the same based on the same thing which is the original script which is in 1977. Your argument isn't valid.

But the audio commentary wasnt made until after ESB came out. We have all seen and established Yoda as a character by then and know that he existed in ANH.

Again, ANH is based on the original script, so you can't use the fact that you've seen the whole story to establish that Yoda did exist.

Ok then. Lets look at it from a different angle. When GL says good guy we can presume he means every good guy in the universe. Because in ANH we can only establish about 7 characters as good guys(not including the rebellion). This means that Obi-Wan is stronger than anyone in the universe in ANH even if they have not yet been created.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Ok then. Lets look at it from a different angle. When GL says good guy we can presume he means every good guy in the universe. Because in ANH we can only establish about 7 characters as good guys(not including the rebellion). This means that Obi-Wan is stronger than anyone in the universe in ANH even if they have not yet been created.

No, GL means everyone in the universe with the exception of people that haven't been created. Obviously he isn't going to have a universal statement for people he hasn't created yet Ox.

But thats what he said and GL doesnt have exceptions unless he specifically states them, which he didnt. We can only conclude that Obi-Wan was better than Yoda.

No, you are wrong. The script has not changed since 77, only our knowledge has changed, which isn't a logical reason to think Yoda exists by ANH, so your logic is faulty.

Even if Yoda hasnt been introduced or thought of GL still says that Obi-Wan is the strongest in ANH, Yoda or not.

Ok, Obiwan is the strongest in ANH while Yoder doesn't exist, congratulations.. Yet if Yoder was there he would have been the strongest because at no point in time was Obiwan stronger than Yoda.

No, your incorrect tdtd. By that kind of logic then Ragnos would not be "The Dark Lord Sith, the most powerful of the most powerful" in nothing OTHER then that exact comic he was in. I could come up with more examples, but I'm too tired, I assume you get the point though. If what your saying is the case then NOTHING any narrator said could be taken into any context outside of that specific story they were narrated upon.

Comments made by omniscient narrators are ever spanning, (to a point) and seeing as Lucas counts as THE omniscient narrator of all of SW, then his comments are as ever spanning as any other omniscient narrators.

Although narration comments cannot predict what is to come in the future (like the Ragnos comment that is now under 'scrupulation'😉 They can account for a variable degree of time span. When Lucas says "At this point" he is including EVERYTHING at that point, including all things that may or may not be mentioned or seen in that particular narration. If Lucas made a comment "Han was the best smuggler in the galaxy at this point" it would include ALL the smugglers, not the ones just seen in the movie. And since Yoda was indeed alive at this point, he is saying that Obi is stronger then Yoda.

I don't like, nor do I agree with this, as I don't think Obi could EVER be logically more powerful then Yoda, this is unfortunate for me however, as Lucas has said it, and though I may not like it, it is as it is. Your just gonna have to accept it.

You have no proof that Yoda is STILL better. He lives on a frickin swamp planet eating his frickin walking stick to survive!! A lot has happened since ROTS and there is every possibility Obi-Wan surpassed Yoda.

Ok well until you come up with examples, don't post, as you present no argument.

Ok Ox, we have no proof Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful either right? Oh wait.

Its not needed, GL comments override any need for argumentation.

Again, your logic is flawed, you are saying "oh because we have seen all of the movies that means Yoda did exist in ANH", while I'm saying GL comments remain in the time where Yoda didn't exist, and unless he UPDATED those comments which he didn't, then there's no reason to assume the ridiculous, and therefore destroys your argument or flawed logic.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
No, your incorrect tdtd. By that kind of logic then Ragnos would not be "The Dark Lord Sith, the most powerful of the most powerful" in nothing OTHER then that exact comic he was in. I could come up with more examples, but I'm too tired, I assume you get the point though. If what your saying is the case then NOTHING any narrator said could be taken into any context outside of that specific story they were narrated upon.

Comments made by omniscient narrators are ever spanning, (to a point) and seeing as Lucas counts as THE omniscient narrator of all of SW, then his comments are as ever spanning as any other omniscient narrators.

Although narration comments cannot predict what is to come in the future (like the Ragnos comment that is now under 'scrupulation'😉 They can account for a variable degree of time span. When Lucas says "At this point" he is including EVERYTHING at that point, including all things that may or may not be mentioned or seen in that particular narration. If Lucas made a comment "Han was the best smuggler in the galaxy at this point" it would include ALL the smugglers, not the ones just seen in the movie. And since Yoda was indeed alive at this point, he is saying that Obi is stronger then Yoda.

I don't like, nor do I agree with this, as I don't think Obi could EVER be logically more powerful then Yoda, this is unfortunate for me however, as Lucas has said it, and though I may not like it, it is as it is. Your just gonna have to accept it.

I dont need an example I have proof. Gls comment in the commentary.

Ok and again when you show me GL's commentary when he's statng that Obiwan is the strongest WHILE Yoda exists, then you can continue this argument, right now you have no basis for your so called logic.

((The Anomaly)) is correct. None of us want t admit nor does it make sense that Obi-Wan is better. But according to GL he is and GLs word is law.

I'm not sure if tdtd even read my post, because he's said nothing to argue against it.

No, you're both arguing from ignorance because GL said that back in 1977, I haven't heard him reiterate it now nor say that Obiwan was stronger WITH the knowledge that Yoda existed. I'll let Janus explain this to you tomorrow.