OT Emperor & OT Vader vs Old Ben Kenobi & OT Yoda.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
What the **** are YOU talking about? I [b]never said Yoda wasn't alive as of ANH. I said you guys are being a bunch of literal, anal fools and not putting the comment IN CONTEXT. I suggest you look that up before you keep running at the mouth.

Now, before you go skimming this post and playing Noob Cowboy, I suggest you ask yourself these questions:

1. What was the scene in question during the commentary?

2. Did GL specifically say "all the good guys including the ones not in this movie?"

3. Don't you think it's ridiculous that Obi-Wan would suddenly be stronger than Jedi Master Yoda, who he clearly cites as his superior both in the OT and the PT, from sitting out in the desert?

In short, don't be assinine- Obi-Wan is NOT better than Yoda. [/B]

The answwr to your questions are:
1. I think it was just when Obi-Wan ignites his lightsaber to fight Vader
2.No George Lucas said that Obi-Wan is the strongest good guy at his point. This means every good guy, including Yoda.
3.This is only your opinion. We as an audience have no idea what training goes on in the desert between the PT and OT. There is no evidence to suggest that Yoda is still better.

Yeah, you can't be reasoned with. Stop talking, I'm done with you.

Amen... AAAAAMENNNNN... What did I say? AMMMMENNNNN

Unless you can show exactly where GL compares and references Obi-Wan's power to Yoda's power IN this commentary, you can't make such a statement.

You're interpreting the statement as ANH Obi-Wan > ANH Yoda. However, you're failing to realize that you don't know which good guys GL is talking about! Put it in context! If it's during a scene from ANH... and Yoda's not in ANH, chances are he's not including Yoda in that generalization. And that's what it is- a generalization.

Yeah, this is the first part of my Stop The Bullshit campaign. Seriously, this is ridiculous.

Originally posted by darthsith19
It's either chapter 37 or 38. Listen to it, it'll only take a few minutes.

"At this point" what does that mean. At this point in the galaxy. "Obi-Wan's the strongest good guy." means he's stronger than the other good guys. Not in this film Obi-Wan's the strongest, at this point in general.

What's ridiculous is us having George Lucas's word, which just happens to be the highest source of canon.

Originally posted by Janus Marius

If you think I said I could override GL, you need to learn how to READ and COMPREHEND. But I don't think you can, DS. You regularly argue out of your ass.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Wow, first you think you can override Lucas and then when no one except tdtd thinks you are more official than Lucas you try and insult the rest of us. Good job, Janus.

Agreed. 😉

I didn't argue with GL either, I just used logic, and so did Janus, learn it live it love it and embrace it.

Of course you are arguing with GL. GL says that Obi-Wan is the strongest good guy in the galaxy at that point and you are saying he isnt. Sounds like arguing to me.

Again, because Yoda was not yet created, can you not read, nor comprehend logic? Yoder was NOT yet created when GL said it the first time, nor was he mentioned the second time.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Of course you are arguing with GL. GL says that Obi-Wan is the strongest good guy in the galaxy at that point and you are saying he isnt. Sounds like arguing to me.

...

Answer me honestly- did you read all of my initial post and understand it?

Dude... don't argue with Janus... he's god. 🪩

Originally posted by Janus Marius
...

Answer me honestly- did you read all of my initial post and understand it?

Of course I bloody read them!! But all you are doing is contradicting what GL himself said.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Of course I bloody read them!! But all you are doing is contradicting what GL himself said.

And again, it would make absolutely NO sense for Obi-Wan Kenobi to surpass Yoda, who could defeat Anakin better than he could, AND could have defeated Sidious on even ground, when he cannot overcome Vader in ANH!

If you DO take Gl literally, then you'd say that Vader = 80% of Sidious.

Well, if Yoda = Sidious, and Obi-Wan > Yoda, then Obi-Wan >> Vader.

So do you kinda sorta maybe see where I'm coming from now?

That might be possible. I've heard theories that "Take one for the team" Kenobi was playing with Vader the whole time. Not sure if I believe it but I wouldn't put it past him. He was aiming for a moral victory, anyways.

Well, Obi-Wan had no problems with lopping Anakin's arms off and leaving him to get a really bad sunburn, so I don't see him having moral qualms with ending his life later on.

I understand your point completely Janus but you have just presented an A<B<C argument. You are right that the commentary is made up on the spot but it was made after we established Yoda as a character. You argument would be perfectly reasonable if the commentary was made before we saw Yoda but it wasnt, so we can only assume that GL is referring to Yoda.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I understand your point completely Janus but you have just presented an A<B<C argument.

And the entire point is that for Obi-Wan to be "stronger" than Yoda, he must be "stronger" in all aspects- this INCLUDES A< B if A = C and C < B arguments. And it's not a small difference in power either... it's the difference between Obi-Wan who was on the backs of his heels trying not to get tooled by Anakin, who got destroyed by Dooku...

... Is suddenly going to outfight Darth Sidious? Tell me, can ANH Obi-Wan block Sith Lightning with his hands? Can he catch that pod that Yoda stopped in a heartbeat without any apparent effort? The only examples of force use we see from ANh Obi-Wan is him using the mind trick on a bunch of simpletons. That's something he did in AOTC.

So I think basing your entire argument on just one statement taken entirely out of context and not applying some uh... reason makes you WRONG.

You are right that the commentary is made up on the spot but it was made after we established Yoda as a character. You argument would be perfectly reasonable if the commentary was made before we saw Yoda but it wasnt, so we can only assume that GL is referring to Yoda.

I swear, you are so damn obtuse. I am FULLY aware that Yoda existed in the series at this point. However, he did not make an appearance in the movie, ANH. Therefore, how can you conclude that he is definately without a doubt, 100% lumped in this group of "good guys" that GL is vaguely referencing in a directory's commentary? Do you understand just how much you're being thick?

At first, I would've said DS was right (actually I did), but Janus you've made me see the light ( 😛 ).

The "during this point", could just be referring to character's we've seen up to the actual quote, and of course, Obi-Wan would be the strongest out of the ones we've seen appear.

Lucas doesn't need to make canon statements in his every word about the entire Star Wars universe, and you can't give the "without a doubt is what he meant" when there is still a probability that his quote was only referring to those who we see appear up to that point in the movie, who were of course "good guys".