Originally posted by Razielim
Not all the droids focus fired at them though. Take Trebor, for example. Couldn't deflect a few blaster bolts from Jango Fett. Meanwhile, Luke took on Boba Fett plus at least 20 other guards, once deflecting Boba's shot while tied up.He was pretty good by ROTJ.
Yes, I absolutely love idiotic blanket statements.
1. Coleman Trebor deflected a few short ranged blasts from a man who can shoot a dart into a changelings neck from atop a building, or kill the colliseum creature with one shot to the face. That's actually pretty good considering that the guy isn't heavy for combat. And last I checked, Coleman Trebor != entire PT order. Don't be silly.
2. Luke did NOT take on at least 20 guards; he fought perhaps a half dozen thugs and goons with the IQ of headlice. This is a far cry from being in a full battle with hundreds of battle droids. And Boba Fett got KO'd by a blind Han Solo. Blind Han Solo >>> Boba Fett = deminished feat.
1. Coleman Trebor deflected a few short ranged blasts from a man who can shoot a dart into a changelings neck from atop a building, or kill the colliseum creature with one shot to the face. That's actually pretty good considering that the guy isn't heavy for combat. And last I checked, Coleman Trebor != entire PT order. Don't be silly.
Coleman Trebor is as good as any representative from the PT order. 80% of the Order practised Niman, and he was a master of it. He was also a Council Member. Most PT Jedi aren't heavy on combat either. Most were diplomat-style practicioners.
2. Luke did NOT take on at least 20 guards; he fought perhaps a half dozen thugs and goons with the IQ of headlice. This is a far cry from being in a full battle with hundreds of battle droids.
Three of those hover thingies with approximatly 6 guards each. Approximatly 18, but more than half a dozen guards.
And considering the average Jedi, you know, died in the Arena, whereas Luke survived. Alone.
Blind Han Solo >>> Boba Fett = deminished feat.
"Yes, I absolutely love idiotic blanket statements."
-_-
Originally posted by Razielim
Coleman Trebor is as good as any representative from the PT order. 80% of the Order practised Niman, and he was a master of it. He was also a Council Member. Most PT Jedi aren't heavy on combat either. Most were diplomat-style practicioners.
Oh, cool. So Coleman Trebor = any PT order member. Source? Evidence? Is this "razielim's opinion" or something objective? And how can you "master" Niman? For one thing, Niman is a general form which emphasizes only a basic understanding of each form in order to give a jedi more time to focus on diplomacy and the force. How you could "master" a form that is not meant to be mastered is beyond me. If Coleman Trebor mastered Niman, he'd effectively be a cracked out Juyo Master, and would be able to WTFpwn just about anybody in the order save for Mace and Yoda. And where's the source that Coleman Trebor "mastered" anything?
Three of those hover thingies with approximatly 6 guards each. Approximatly 18, but more than half a dozen guards.
Apparently you have a comprehension problem.
Large arena filled with hundreds to thousands of battle droids, super battle droids, and droidekas versus a sail barge that's not moving and a few skiffs with some goons, some of which had next to no military talent and others who didn't even have ranged weapons.
Let's see here.... Hmmm....
And considering the average Jedi, you know, died in the Arena, whereas Luke survived. Alone.
And considering that the average jedi died in a battle turned massacre, while Luke got his hand scortched by a hired goon and would have been shot by Boba if Han Solo hadn't accidentally hit the guy with a staff, this isn't a good comparison. What Luke Skywalker did on that sail barge could have been accomplished by TPM Obi-Wan with relative ease. TPM Obi-Wan was a padawan, and yet he came through the doors of that Trade Federation ship and deflected everything that came before him. Luke got fried just handling goons.
In The Approaching Storm, Anakin Skywalker and Barriss Offee, padawans, are able to take on a group of about 25-30 similar goons (Made up of Wee-quays, Gamorreans, and humans) wielding melee weapons and blasters and they survived without a scratch. And they were ambushed.
Now, is Anakin and Barriss somehow greater than the average jedi? No, they're not. If jedi were that pathetic, it would not be completely unusual for Phow Ji to be respected for defeating one in combat (He was a nonforce sensitive mercenary). It wouldn't be the case that when Obi-Wan and Anakin land on Ansion, they're held in awe even by the warriors of the planet.
No, average jedi aren't pieces of shit. And ROTJ Luke, who barely has the training to take on a sail barge full of morons, isn't better than average jedi.
And ANH Ben absolutely ****s his shit up.
Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
This thread is bullshit. Luke BEAT Vader. Obi-Wan COULD NOT beat Vader.
How much simpler can it get?
Er, for starters Obiwan willingly sacrificed himself by putting his saber up and let Vader strike him,so while I doubt ANH Obiwan could kill Vader at that point but the fight would have been longer. Vader was trying to kill Obiwan unlike vs Luke who would later admit that had Vader wanted to kill him, he would have killed Luke in rotj.
Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Source?
"The Courtship of Princess Leia"
Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me . Who had Luke been kidding? Teneniel had been right, Luke was no warrior. Ben, Luke thought. I failed you. I've failed you all. And suddenly there was a wave of pain, and Luke tried to remember who he'd just been talking to, tried to think of a name, someone he could call for help, but his mind was numb, empty, like the vast deserts of Tatooine lying naked beneath setting suns.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
"The Courtship of Princess Leia"Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
. Who had Luke been kidding? Teneniel had been right, Luke was no warrior. Ben, Luke thought. I failed you. I've failed you all. And suddenly there was a wave of pain, and Luke tried to remember who he'd just been talking to, tried to think of a name, someone he could call for help, but his mind was numb, empty, like the vast deserts of Tatooine lying naked beneath setting suns. [/B]
[B]So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me
Fair enough. This doesn't change the fact Luke owned Vader and could have killed him. It's not like Vader didn't fight at all. He did his best to defend himself and failed.
Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
Fair enough. This doesn't change the fact Luke owned Vader and could have killed him. It's not like Vader didn't fight at all. He did his best to defend himself and failed.
That is debatable due to the fact that Vader wanted to turn Luke to the darkside and use him to help kill the emperor. And it is worth noting that Luke outdueled Vader while using the darkside due to Vader taunting Luke about turning Leia over to the darkside. So I doubt he would use that type of rage vs. obiwan. Though I will admit I'm not sure if Vader was going all out vs the enraged-darkside Luke or not.
OK its time to shut a few people up
1) There is NO CONSISTENT LOGICAL CORRELATION BETWEEN EXPERIENCE AND VICTORY. If experience= wins, then qui-gon would have beaten maul who was about half his age, and dooku would have beaten anakin who was about 1/3 his age.
2) Obi wan was out of shape.
so i render my verdict
Sabers: Luke, He has the strength and fitness and obi wan's soresu requires him to be in shape which he was in ROTS but not in ANH (look how he was holding his saber in ROTS then in ANH, even his arms and wrists got weaker)
Force ONLY: BEN, this is one time where experience counts, ben had more training in the force and could probably do to him what he did to grevious and thats toss him against the wall.
ALL out: Luke djem so requires him to close in on his opponent and then ben is toast
1. I say sabers is close. Kenobi seemed even with Vader, while Luke beat Vader, and although it is true that Vader wasn't going all-out offensively, there is no reason he would have been holding back defensively. If he had been using offense and defensive saber skills, though, it is possible that he would have been able to defeat Luke, plus Luke was using the dark side. So Ben might beat Luke in sabers. I'm not certain though, sabers is close.
2. As stated above, Vader would have pwnd ROTJ Luke if he had unleashed all his Force Powers on him. However, Vader clearly though Kenobi had a chance of withstanding his force powers, or else he would have used them on Kenobi. So Kenobi would probably own Luke with the Force. But, what could he do? Force-Push him? He's a Jedi and doesn't use offensive Force Powers, so...
3. Again, Vader would have pwnd Luke is he went all-out, but Vader was going all-out on Kenobi and Kenobi was fending him off quite well (they seemed fairly even). I say Kenobi takes this comfortably.