Originally posted by darthsith19
Why's that? There's no other reason that Vader wouldn't have used the Force once Kenobi proved pretty even with a blade.
i could just as easily speculate that. vader remebers being cut down with obi wan's blade in rots and that nothing short of cutting obi wan down with his blade will satisfy vader's blood lust and thirst for revenge.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Vader seems pretty calm during their duel. When he talks to Obi-Wan, he isn't shouting or sounding bloodthirsty. "Now I am the Master". Surely a master would use Force Powers to win if need be, and seriously I doubt Vader gave a flying f*ck how Kenobi died, just that he did die.
as a sith, vader has a variety of options and ways to kill a person.
he could have choked ben out (which only yakes ader about 5-10 seconds), but chose to take the long way and duel him, which is worth being noted. vader walked up to ben with the saber already out, so it was obvious that he only wanted to slice him up as obi wan had sliced him.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
as a sith, vader has a variety of options and ways to kill a person.
he could have choked ben out (which only yakes ader about 5-10 seconds), but chose to take the long way and duel him, which is worth being noted. vader walked up to ben with the saber already out, so it was obvious that he only wanted to slice him up as obi wan had sliced him.
Having your lightsaber drawn is only natural, in most fights lightsabers are drawn. But that doesn't mean he wanted to slice him up, he just wanted to kill him. Simple as that, Vader wanted Kenobi dead, and he used his lightsaber because he thought he would have a better chance with it than he would with the Force. If you want somebody to be dead, it doesn't matter how they die. Dead is dead, and if using the Force would have been more efficient that using a saber, Vader would have used the Force. But he obviously though that Kenobi could handle his Force attacks better than he could handle his saber.
It doesn't need to be. It's common sense. Vader wants Kenobi to be dead. Fact. Dead at the hands of a lightsbaer or died by use of the Force is still dead. Fact. And it's human nature to do things the easiest way possible (fact), so if killing Kenobi with the Force would have been easier than killing him with a lightsaber, Vader would have used the Force. Due to the other things being facts, this is also a fact.
Originally posted by darthsith19
It doesn't need to be. It's common sense. Vader wants Kenobi to be dead. Fact. Dead at the hands of a lightsbaer or died by use of the Force is still dead. Fact. And it's human nature to do things the easiest way possible (fact), so if killing Kenobi with the Force would have been easier than killing him with a lightsaber, Vader would have used the Force. Due to the other things being facts, this is also a fact.
being a human doesnt always mean desire to take path of least resistance heres an example
fact: obi wan could have taken anakin with him to kill grevious
but chose to go alone
Originally posted by Man of Christ
being a human doesnt always mean desire to take path of least resistance heres an examplefact: obi wan could have taken anakin with him to kill grevious
but chose to go alone
Actually, if I remember, didn't the Council order Obi-Wan to go instead of Anakin, due to his (then) current assignment of espionage against Supreme Chancellor Palpatine?
Originally posted by darthsith19
Yup. Obi-Wan didn't have a choice, the Council ordered him to go. And they didn't order anybody else to go along. Humans take the easy path when trying to accomplish something.
ok i concede that example
but another one
luke could have submitted to paplpaitne and spared himself an electrocution but chose to stay on the lightside
Originally posted by darthsith19Uh thats because most of vaders attention was talking to the other captain and not on solely on ozzel himself or ozzel would have died instantly, had he actually wanted to instantly kille ozzel he would have done so. Judging from vaders tone he wanted ozzel to suffer then die hence it took so long.
No, Ozzel lasted much longer than 5-10 seconds. I can't remember how long it was but it was closer to 30 seconds if I remember correctly. ANd in ANH the guy he choked he is choking for over 10 seconds and he doesn't even die.
Now proof he could kill him instantly? Read one of the comics and vader breaks the necks of 10 wild dogs while suspending them in the air.
And the fella he choked in ANH was to teach him a lesson.
Originally posted by darthsith19I can simply argue that vader simply chose to engage ben in a saber duel.
Dead is dead, and if using the Force would have been more efficient that using a saber, Vader would have used the Force. But he obviously though that Kenobi could handle his Force attacks better than he could handle his saber.
Thats like saying "And if using the force would have been more efficient(which would always be in sidious case), sidious would have used the force against mace right at the start of the Duel"
Or the same can apply when we take DE luke vs DE palpatine.
DS, its just the way some things are, they CHOSE to engage in a duel.
So are you telling me luke in DE can deflect all of sidious attacks as you are implying that ben could do to vader when you have nothing to support your argument?
Uh thats because most of vaders attention was talking to the other captain and not on solely on ozzel himself or ozzel would have died instantly, had he actually wanted to instantly kille ozzel he would have done so. Judging from vaders tone he wanted ozzel to suffer then die hence it took so long.
Now proof he could kill him instantly? Read one of the comics and vader breaks the necks of 10 wild dogs while suspending them in the air.
Thats like saying "And if using the force would have been more efficient(which would always be in sidious case), sidious would have used the force against mace right at the start of the Duel"
Or the same can apply when we take DE luke vs DE palpatine.
So are you telling me luke in DE can deflect all of sidious attacks as you are implying that ben could do to vader when you have nothing to support your argument?
Originally posted by Man of Christ
ok i concede that example
but another oneluke could have submitted to paplpaitne and spared himself an electrocution but chose to stay on the lightside
Originally posted by darthsith19Always with the "Prove this! Prove that!" When you have yet to offer up any proof of your own.
Prove that talking
Originally posted by darthsith19Sigh, because vader was focusing his attention on the other captain and not completely on ozzel? The very fact that if he focused all his attention on ozzel he would have died?to the captain had any effect on the length of the Force Choke.
How about i explain a metaphor and hopefully you will understand .
Anyways i'm trying to saw a piece of wood and i focus all my attention to my friend while cutting the piece of wood and therefore would i cut it apart as fast as i would if my attention is focused on it?
Simple answer: Hell no.
Originally posted by darthsith19Exactly! Which is why vader didn't instantly kill him with force choke. You want a better explanation? Then peer down a few quotes.
Yes his tone suggests that he wanted Ozzel to suffer,
Originally posted by darthsith19Uh and who says a force choke can't kill a victim instantly? Just tighten the force grip.
hence why he chose Force Choke to kill him with in the first place, because Force Choke naturally makes the victim suffer.
Originally posted by darthsith19Uh to you that is, you also seem to fail to realise that force choke, push , pull all derive from telekenesis so what you saw was very well a force choke.
Was that Force Choke? To me it looked more like snapping animals necks using telekinesis, not Force Choke.
Force choke is a telekenetical attack, it does not manifest itself like lightning,drain or any other fancy force powers.
Now i'm going to bet you will ask me "Blah blah blah prove that it is a TK attack". Then i'll ask you, if its not under the TK category, what kind of attack is it?
Your basically using TK to choke an opponent, crush an opponent, push him pull her or simply grab something.
Now i hate to use wookiepedia as something to back up my claims but in this case i have no other choice as i do not have the dark side source book or the essential guide to the force.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_choke
Just read it.
Originally posted by darthsith19Then this further backs my point, with 4 council members it is still ineffecient to use the force with all 4 of them combined(with one whom could grip and levitate hundred of tons of rock)hence they chose to engage him in a duel?
You neglect the fact that at the start of the duel, Mace was not alone, but was being accompanied by 3 other Jedi Masters. Sidious thought confronting them in saber combat was his best move and seeing as he killed the other 3 Jedi in 7 seconds, I'd say his move worked out just fine.
You have got to be joking me.
Originally posted by darthsith19Uh and before the duel in the clone room started, palpatine had ample time to unleash devastating force attacks pal, but it seems that he chose to to pick up a lightsaber and duel him.
De Luke and Palpatine. Forgive me, as I haven't read DE for a while, but Luke and Palpatine fought earlier in the comic, and Palpatine gave Luke a thrashing in saber combat (in the room with the Clones). Well he trashed him then, so at the end he assumed he could do so again. When he failed to beta Luke in saber combat he did use the Force to try and destroy the fleet, but combined Luke and Leia were again able to stop him. Sidious was a raving lunatic at that point, though, and did he engage Luke in lightsaber combat, or did Luke engage him in saber combat?
And regarding your question of who started the duel, it was palpatine onboard the eclipse when he charged at luke and he very well knows that luke is under the influence of BM yet he still chose to duel him when the fact remains that had he used devastating force attacks in the beginning, he would have annihilated luke.
Originally posted by darthsith19The i guessed you never heard of plot induced stupidity. Or maybe you forgot that vader was confident enough to beat obiwan in a saber duel seeing that he lost the last time.
Human nature it to do things the easiest way possible. It's all psychology. Ask a physiologist if you don't believe me. Input over output.
Sigh, because vader was focusing his attention on the other captain and not completely on ozzel? The very fact that if he focused all his attention on ozzel he would have died?How about i explain a metaphor and hopefully you will understand .
Anyways i'm trying to saw a piece of wood and i focus all my attention to my friend while cutting the piece of wood and therefore would i cut it apart as fast as i would if my attention is focused on it?
Uh and who says a force choke can't kill a victim instantly? Just tighten the force grip.
Uh to you that is, you also seem to fail to realise that force choke, push , pull all derive from telekenesis so what you saw was very well a force choke.Force choke is a telekenetical attack, it does not manifest itself like lightning,drain or any other fancy force powers.
Now i'm going to bet you will ask me "Blah blah blah prove that it is a TK attack". Then i'll ask you, if its not under the TK category, what kind of attack is it?
Your basically using TK to choke an opponent, crush an opponent, push him pull her or simply grab something.
Now i hate to use wookiepedia as something to back up my claims but in this case i have no other choice as i do not have the dark side source book or the essential guide to the force.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_choke
Just read it.
In the same page you posted the link to, under Force Choke:
"It caused immobilization and choking, which with prolonged focus, could lead to death."
Hence, it cannot kill somebody instantly.
Then this further backs my point, with 4 council members it is still ineffecient to use the force with all 4 of them combined(with one whom could grip and levitate hundred of tons of rock)hence they chose to engage him in a duel?
Uh and before the duel in the clone room started, palpatine had ample time to unleash devastating force attacks pal, but it seems that he chose to to pick up a lightsaber and duel him.
The i guessed you never heard of plot induced stupidity. Or maybe you forgot that vader was confident enough to beat obiwan in a saber duel seeing that he lost the last time.
Originally posted by darthsith19And that is exactly my whole point which you have failed to realised,
Bad analogy. If somebody's airflow if being cut-off then their air-flow is being cut off. Judging by Vader's cool tone and relaxed position in that scene, he wasn't trying very hard even.
Originally posted by darthsith19I said it could if the user wishes it.
If it could kill instantly,
Originally posted by darthsith19But pressing hard enough would break it. Oh and kenobi simply was getting kenobi out of the way.
why didn't Kenobi die instantly when Dooku used Force Choke on him in ROTS? Force Choke cuts off the victim's windpipe. Cutting off someone's windpipe would not kill them instantly.
If you use force choke or force grip, the harder you press the more damage you do and when you decide to press very hard, it would break your neck. Don't tell me i can't kill anybody when i grab their neck and press it with tremendous force(enough to break their neck instantly) which vader is very capable of doing with the force as he demonstrated in one of the comics.
Originally posted by darthsith19No problem.
I honestly wasn't going to use Wookieepedia as a source, but since you did, I will, too:
Originally posted by darthsith19Apparantly all you have to do is read my analogy above. It merely said with prolonged focus[/b], could lead to death", it never said that the opponent can't be killed instantly.
In the same page you posted the link to, under Force Choke:"It caused immobilization and choking, which [b]with prolonged focus
, could lead to death."Hence, it cannot kill somebody instantly.[/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19Ill drop this point.
Wrong again.
They came to arrest him. They were prepared for a fight if need be but their intent wasn't to fight him, it was to arrest him. Palpatine made the first move, and he made it with his lightsaber. Once Palpatine attacked he moved so quickly that 2 Jeid were down before they could even react, so there's no way they could have attacked him with the Force quick enough even if they'd tried.
Originally posted by darthsith19Who or what the f*ck ever stated that if you get force pushed it breaches your force defence?
I can't remember when exactly Palpatine got a lightsaber, but I remember Luke Force Pushed Sidious first, since Sidious first, and did Palpatine get his lightsaber after that? If so, Luke had already breached his defenses with the Force so he may have decided that a lightsaber duel was his best option.
Again palpatine STILL could overpower luke with the force yet he decided to engage him in a saber duel. But it does not matter, well for that part anyway as palpatine was merely trying to restrain luke and bring him back to his side. So lets drop this one and move on to the next.
Originally posted by darthsith19Yes he did.
Also remember that at that time he did not wish to kill Luke, and perhaps any Force Power of Sidious's strong enough to breach Luke's defenses would have harmed Luke more than Sidious wished to. But like I said, I can't remember DE that well, how did Sidious win in the end of their first duel? Did he disarm Luke?
But i'm talking about the later duel when leia was involved.
Originally posted by darthsith19Did i say that? Anyways i misinterpreted it, i was trying to say that vader was confident that he can beat ben this time in a saber duel because he has improved on his saber skills since the time he lost.
Why would Vader losing the first time make him confident?
Originally posted by darthsith19It's a fact, it was written that way pal. It was written by the write that vader drew his saber.
ANd Plot Induced Stupidity is not an excuse.
Originally posted by darthsith19And you mean there no proof that the ANH duel was written the way it was? The very fact that the director wanted the duel to turn out that way? What the **** are you talking about?
If you want to you can just say it was Plot Induced Stupidity and leave this debate but there's no proof that it was Plot Induced Stupidity,
Originally posted by darthsith19Never did as you always ask for proof 🙁
and I don't have to prove a negative so don't ask me to.
And that is exactly my whole point which you have failed to realised,
I said it could if the user wishes it.
But pressing hard enough would break it. Oh and kenobi simply was getting kenobi out of the way.
If you use force choke or force grip, the harder you press the more damage you do and when you decide to press very hard, it would break your neck. Don't tell me i can't kill anybody when i grab their neck and press it with tremendous force(enough to break their neck instantly) which vader is very capable of doing with the force as he demonstrated in one of the comics.
Apparantly all you have to do is read my analogy above. It merely said with prolonged focus[/b], could lead to death", it never said that the opponent can't be killed instantly.
Killing someone instantly would not be Force Choke. It would be Force Crush.
Who or what the f*ck ever stated that if you get force pushed it breaches your force defence?
Did i say that?
Originally posted by Ivalice
Or maybe you forgot that vader was confident enough to beat obiwan in a saber duel seeing that he lost the last time.
Anyways i misinterpreted it, i was trying to say that vader was confident that he can beat ben this time in a saber duel because he has improved on his saber skills since the time he lost.
It's a fact, it was written that way pal. It was written by the write that vader drew his saber.
And you mean there no proof that the ANH duel was written the way it was? The very fact that the director wanted the duel to turn out that way? What the **** are you talking about?
Never did as you always ask for proof sad
Originally posted by darthsith19Do you actually know how to read? This was my point all along, the one that you just had mentioned
How is that your point? Your point was "Vader was distratced by talking to the other guy." but judging from the tone of his voice, and the cool relaxed position in which he was sitting he wasn't distracted or trying hard at all. And that was NOT your point.
Exactly! Which is why vader didn't instantly kill him with force choke.
^ This basically meant another way of saying vader wasn't trying very hard, this also meant that vader didn't want to instantly killed him.
This is what you just said Bad analogy. If somebody's airflow if being cut-off then their air-flow is being cut off. Judging by Vader's cool tone and relaxed position in that scene, he wasn't trying very hard even
Again did i say vader was distracted by the other captain? I said he was focusing his attention on that captain and not completely on ozzel which would also hint out the fact that he wasn't trying to kill ozzel instantly nor "try hard enough".
Anyways it wouldn't matter as vader applied force choke, not force grip or force crush.
Seriously DS learn to read and learn to interpret things for once.
Originally posted by darthsith19You have yet to prove anything in any debate we or anyone else engage in with you.
You have yet to prove that.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Dooku's instructions were to kill Kenobi, if he could have killed him instantly with it why would he choose not to?
A crushing application of the Force, Force Grip was an advanced level of Force Choke and could be used to levitate and strangle a target's internal organs. However, the primary purpose was to immobilise or control a target's movement and choking the target to death could be secondary. The target could be seized with great strength and subsequently lifted off their feet and suspended in the air by a powerful user.
^Which perfectly explains why dooku didn't just kill obiwan on the spot due to the nature of this attack.
Oh and read this Other Force-users known to have used this power included Count Dooku, who used it on Obi-Wan Kenobi when Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker boarded Grievous's ship to rescue Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
Now will you shut the hell up DS?
Originally posted by darthsith19Ok, dooku was using grip according to wookiepedia(which i was reluctant to use as the novel states something completely different such as dooku only using tk to send obi wan flying away).
Wookieepedia also says that it takes a prolnged amount of time to kill somebody with Force Choke.
Originally posted by darthsith19See the above.
"Kenobi was getting Kenobi out of the way"? Lol. And why the f*ck would Dooku want to NOT kill Kenobi?
Originally posted by darthsith19Ok well thanks to wookiepedia it appears now that it is a force grip or even a force crush seeing that how quickly he killed his opponents.
Which comic was this? And don't say the one where he snaps the animals necks because you've yet to prove that Force Choke was the ability he used on them. Wookieepedia says that it takes "prolonged focus" to kill an opponent with Force Choke. Vader might be able to break their necks with another telekinesis move, but not Choke because it takes "prolonged focus" to kill somebody with FC.
Originally posted by darthsith19Ok well i concur to that.
Prolonged: To lengthen in duration: To lengthen in extent[/i}Killing someone instantly would not be Force Choke. It would be Force Crush.
[i]Originally posted by darthsith19Can you actually prove that? Wow so i guess sidious force defence got breached in ROTS, yet we don't see yoda trying to use TK to snap sidious neck.
Unless you meant to get Force Pushed then it is only logical that it breaches ones defense. Whenever anyone attacks you and you get hit with something, it broke your defense, unless you simply were not trying to defend yourself, which would be stupid.
You seem to forget that at those instances they were caught by surprise or got caught off guard which would explain their reaction.
Oh? And force defences breached when you get pushed or hit by any force attack? Its funny how yoda gets hit by lightning at first, and then when sidious does it the second time he can put up a defence despite sidious "breaking his force defence".
Again i don't see how this is relevant when sidious could have just annihilated luke with the force in the final duel when he chose to engage him in a saber duel. Again sidious was the one who struck first.
Originally posted by darthsith19And i really hope you are intelligent enough to read the words in italics and bold "Anyways i misinterpreted it, i was trying to say that vader was confident that he can beat ben this time in a saber duel because he has improved on his saber skills since the time he lost.
Yeah you did say that.
Dumbass.
Originally posted by darthsith19Firstly you cannot possibly be that stupid, wheres your logic darth sith?
What makes you think he improved his lightsaber skills? In ROTS he was able to trash Dooku in a lightsaber duel, and at the time of ANH he was bested by Darth Maul (the Clone) in a lightsaber duel and ROTJ Luke was able to breach his defenses. I seriously doubt OT Vader is superior to PT Vader with a lightsaber. In Shadows of the Emperor, vader even comments that he hopes to be what he once was physically.
Vaders skills were affected when he got into his suit and when his injuries were sustained which is why he appeared so clumsy against bol chatak in RODV.
I was saying that he OBVIOUSLY improved his skills from then on seeing that he could slaughter an entire platoon of storm troopers right before the officer incharge could even RUN to the door, or that he used TK to grab his lightsaber and kill 4-6 stormtroopers in one swipe.
Originally posted by darthsith19I guess you don't know how to identify a typo DS considering your level of stubbornness and ignorance. I meant to type "script writer".
"It was written by the write" what? In English please. I can't understand what you're even saying here, but it sounds like you're saying that Lucas meant it to be Plot Induced Stupidity when he wrote it.
But hey its a fact, it was written that they would get into a duel.
Originally posted by darthsith19The only thing is lucas DID want it that way, and the fact that common sense already explained to us that obiwan is indeed the better duelist that GG.
Yes, Lucas wanted it to be that way, but that doesn't change the in-universe explanation of what happened. By that logic I could say "Grievous is stronger than Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan only won because that's the way Lucas wanted it to be."
And the ultimate visual guide already stated that vader was confident enough to beat obiwan, so i guess you are going to ask "Ohhhh y didnt v@d#r u$3 t3h f@rce !!!!!1!11!oneoneone!!one"
Again maybe its due to the fact that he CHOSE to engage ben in a duel?
Originally posted by darthsith19No, i always list down quotes, sources and stuff and you would come up with ridiculous and absurd claims to try to downplay those quotes. Just look back at our little debate involving ulic qel dromo or vos vs vader.
Because you always say things without backing yourself up.f
Do you actually know how to read? This was my point all along, the one that you just had mentioned
You said he was distracted, I said he wasn't, and somehow that's your point? Dude you need to make up your mind: was Vader distracted or not?
Anyways it wouldn't matter as vader applied force choke, not force grip or force crush.
You have yet to prove anything in any debate we or anyone else engage in with you.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Dooku's instructions were to kill Kenobi, if he could have killed him instantly with it why would he choose not to? Wookieepedia also says that it takes a prolnged amount of time to kill somebody with Force Choke.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Prolonged: To lengthen in duration: To lengthen in extent
There is your proof that Force Choke can not instantly kill somebody, proof that I, supposedly, did not post. You are claiming that it can instantly kill somebody "if the user wishes it." and you have yet to prove that, or prove that my proof is faulty. The burden to supply proof is on you, not me.
Lets see, Thats simply because it wasn't a force choke as it seems to turn out to be:
Obi-Wan has his hand on his throat, making it clear that Dooku is choking him as well as picking up his body with the Force. if he could have killed him right then, why didn't he?
A crushing application of the Force, Force Grip was an advanced level of Force Choke and could be used to levitate and strangle a target's internal organs. However, the primary purpose was to immobilise or control a target's movement and choking the target to death could be secondary. The target could be seized with great strength and subsequently lifted off their feet and suspended in the air by a powerful user.
Ok, dooku was using grip according to wookiepedia(which i was reluctant to use as the novel states something completely different such as dooku only using tk to send obi wan flying away).
Originally posted by darthsith19
Wookieepedia also says that it takes a prolnged amount of time to kill somebody with Force Choke.
That has absolutely NOTHING to do with Count Dooku.
Ok well thanks to wookiepedia it appears now that it is a force grip or even a force crush seeing that how quickly he killed his opponents.
Ok well i concur to that.
Can you actually prove that? Wow so i guess sidious force defence got breached in ROTS, yet we don't see yoda trying to use TK to snap sidious neck.
You seem to forget that at those instances they were caught by surprise or got caught off guard which would explain their reaction.
And i really hope you are intelligent enough to read the words in italics and bold "Anyways i misinterpreted it, i was trying to say that vader was confident that he can beat ben this time in a saber duel because he has improved on his saber skills since the time he lost.Dumbass.
Vaders skills were affected when he got into his suit and when his injuries were sustained which is why he appeared so clumsy against bol chatak in RODV.
I was saying that he OBVIOUSLY improved his skills from then on seeing that he could slaughter an entire platoon of storm troopers right before the officer incharge could even RUN to the door, or that he used TK to grab his lightsaber and kill 4-6 stormtroopers in one swipe.
Originally posted by Ivalice
vader was confident that he can beat ben this time in a saber duel because he has improved on his saber skills since the time he lost.
As you can see (assuming you know how to read), you said he improved his saber skills since his last duel with Kenobi, NOT since he got into his suit. In your own words: you cannot possibly be that stupid.
I guess you don't know how to identify a typo DS considering your level of stubbornness and ignorance. I meant to type "script writer".
But hey its a fact, it was written that they would get into a duel.
And the ultimate visual guide already stated that vader was confident enough to beat obiwan, !!!!!1!11!oneoneone!!one"
so i guess you are going to ask "Ohhhh y didnt v@d#r u$3 t3h f@rce
Darth sith, i have been trying my best to be as nice as possible but so far you had just made yourself looked like the stupidest person in this forums and has irritated the hell out of me by not even trying to comprehend my texts. Allow me to this time for real destroy your posts.
Originally posted by darthsith19Dude, seriously start using your brains, how does not focusing on ozzel = to vader being distracted? Seriously DS, how stupid can you be?
Dude seriously read more carefully. Your point was that Vader [b]was distracted when he was choking Ozzel, because he was talking to Piett.
[/B]
Sigh, because vader was focusing his attention on the other captain and not completely on ozzel? The very fact that if he focused all his attention on ozzel he would have died?
In that passage above WHERE did i say vader is distracted? How does focusing on another subject when you simply chose it that way equate to distraction?
You just made yourself look like the most idiotic forum member whom always argues when his posts gets refuted, how i still laugh when you think you could even engage advent in a debate and the end result is getting your ass handed to you.
Originally posted by darthsith19Basically dumb shit, my original claim(which you were overly fond of derailing into something else) was that force choke could kill somebody instantly, which i had conceded considering the fact that i found something else to substantiate my claims.
My point was (a direct quote here): "judging from the tone of his voice, and the cool relaxed position in which he was sitting he [b]wasn't distracted or trying hard at all."[/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19I said he was focusing on someone else when he chose to, you said i said he was distracted, my point all along other than choke could kill some one instantly was that vader was not focusing all his force power and reserves on ozzel which would also mean he wasn't trying to kill ozzel quickly.
You said he was distracted, I said he wasn't, and somehow that's your point? Dude you need to make up your mind: was Vader distracted or not?
Originally posted by darthsith19Ok.
Exactly! He used Force Choke so he could make Ozzel suffer, talking to the other guy had no effect on how long it took Ozzel to die, because, like you said, "Vader wasn't distracted".
Originally posted by darthsith19Correct, and after how many debates? And after how many prompts for you to shut up and actually prove something?
Are you blind, or just stupid? I [b]prooved that Force Choke ca't kill somebody instantly:[/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19Apparantly your stupidity is truly phenomenal and incredible. Did you happen to read this? Ok well i concur to that.?
There is your proof that Force Choke can not instantly kill somebody, proof that I, supposedly, did not post. You are claiming that it can instantly kill somebody "if the user wishes it." and you have yet to prove that, or prove that my proof is faulty. The burden to supply proof is on you, not me.
After you posted this? Prolonged: To lengthen in duration: To lengthen in extent[/i}
Killing someone instantly would not be Force Choke
See how stupid you are DS?
Originally posted by darthsith19It seems your stupidity is impossible to behold. Do you actually know how to read friend?
No, you're right. It was Force Grip, which is even more lethal than Force Choke. And it still didn't kill him! Grip is the same as Choke except the user can crush other parts of the victim as well.
You DO know force choke and force grip are different techniques with similar properties? Wookiepedia which you are so fond of using says this :
Force choke It caused immobilization and choking, which with prolonged focus, could lead to death. The area affected was typically the target's neck. The target was not lifted or moved about. The reason why Sith masters usually used it instead of Grip, is when they need to just punish, threaten, or scare their target, without wanting to cause death. Possibly the most notable display of this ability was by Darth Vader in the Death Star. Admiral Conan Antonio Motti expressed his feelings concerning the Dark Lord's "sorcerer's ways," to which Vader replied with a Force Choke to his throat, saying "I find your lack of faith disturbing." Those most experienced with Force Choke needed only a live visual of their victim in order to perform the technique. Darth Vader demonstrated this by choking Admiral Kendal Ozzel over a viewscreen, even though the admiral was on the bridge at the time. Darth Vader was in fact one of the most infamous users of this Force technique, often choking those whose "lack of faith was disturbing" or who had failed him, in a clear and powerful demonstration of the Force to any non-believers in view of the grim display. Other Force-users known to have used this power included Darth Revan, who was seen choking a Republic Soldier who boarded his flagship. Although users of the dark side reveled in using the power, especially for humiliation, this power was used by the light side as well. One of the most famous Jedi to use Force Choke after the Great Jedi Purge was Luke Skywalker who used it against Gamorrean guards in the process of gaining entrance to Jabba's Palace. Luke also used it in on one of the Nightsisters. In both instances, he used his ability to disable his opponent, not to kill them. In 40 ABY, Jacen Solo used this technique against a female Hapan officer who questioned his authority to chastise her. The officer survived
force grip A crushing application of the Force, Force Grip was an advanced level of Force Choke and could be used to levitate and strangle a target's internal organs. However, the primary purpose was to immobilise or control a target's movement and choking the target to death could be secondary. The target could be seized with great strength and subsequently lifted off their feet and suspended in the air by a powerful user.
Please if you still have any intelligence left in you READ the words highlighted in bold.
Now i will as you since you think you are such a great debater and smart ass. What technique did vader apply to the ten creatures them? What technique? I don't see any possible technique other than these :
Force choke
Force grip
Force crush
[i]Originally posted by darthsith19
Obi-Wan has his hand on his throat, making it clear that Dooku is choking him as well as picking up his body with the Force. if he could have killed him right then, why didn't he?
[i]Originally posted by darthsith19
Again it is not the technique alone which can quickly or instantly kill its victims, it also depends on the users strength in the force.
I recall darth zannah as an untrained child instantly breaking the necks of two jedis with the force
Oh and who said force grip can't quickly kill a victim? What happens if you apply more pressure? Wouldn't it crush your windpipe? Its the same thing, what happens if i strangle a person, and what happens if i squeeze harder? Would his neck NOT break?
So again who says grip or choke can't kill a victim quickly?
I recall 2 gammorean guards in ROTJ knocked out and immobalised SECONDS after ROTJ luke chokes them whom at that time is STILL significantly weaker than vader in the force.
Originally posted by darthsith19Read again : I concur to that = i agree to that = i conceded that.
Read again:
Originally posted by darthsith19Again your idiot i said i MISINTERPRETED IT meaning it was NOT the claim i was trying to make in the first place, why are you so persistant of wanting to look so stupid infront of everybody?
No, that's not what you were saying. To quote you exactly (pay careful attention to the parts in bold, I took the special liberty of adding bold for your benefit):
Originally posted by darthsith19Again you dumbfcuk why are you so stupid? Why the hell can't you accept that i stated i misinterpreted what i was trying to say? Which would also mean that that was NOT the claim i was trying to make in the first place?
As you can see (assuming you know how to read), you said he improved his saber skills since his last duel with Kenobi, NOT since he got into his suit. In your own words: you cannot possibly be that stupid.
In my own words: You ARE that stupid.
Originally posted by darthsith19Hey, says the hypocrite who hurls back lame ass insults such as "Your gay!".
If you wish to make a thread titles "who's more ignorant, Ivalive or darthsith19", then do so, otherwise, stfu with the insults. They only make [b]you look mad, and don't make you seem any intelligent, nor do they help you in your debate.[/B]
Now:
Originally posted by darthsith19Ok fine, but how exactly does that discredit the fact that vader didn't want to engage ben in a force fight but both of them CHOSE to engage in a saber duel without the aid of force attacks? You have yet to say anything DS.
Yes, and it was written that Sidious slaughter Agen, Saesee and Kit in a few seconds, but you don't hear me saying "they only went down so quickly because Lucas wrote it that way" and try to use it as an excuse, do you? "It happened because Lucas wrote it that way" is [b]NOT a sufficient in-universe explanation. [/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19Thinking about it it does not really matter now doesn't it?
It's funny that we've been debating for all this time, and only [b]NOW you bring that up. Quote, please. And, [i[obviously[/i] Vader was confident that he could beat Kenobi, if he didn't think he could beat Kenobi, he wouldn't have confronted him. 🙄
[/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19LOL because he was caught off guard? Because he was caught by surprise? Considering the fact that his actions was rambling at luke about how luke couldnt stop him?
Why do I need to prove something that should be common sense? Okay then smart guy, lets say in DE Luke did [b]NOT breach Sidious's defense. Why did Sidious get Force pushed, then?[/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19Wrong, sidious was going to kill luke in their final duel on the eclipse.
That's possible. But whatever we are not discussing Luke and Sidious's first duel anymore, because Sidious didn't want to kill Luke, right?
Originally posted by darthsith19misinterpreted it also meant that i stated it wrongly you idiot.You're calling [b]me
the dumbass, when you did say that? You said it, I pointed it out to you, and you call me a dumbass. It doesn't matter if you "misinterpreted it", you still said it, then said you didn't say it, and I pointed it out to you. So stfu and quite calling people "dumbass" for pointing you out.[/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19Quickly and instantly are a world of difference darth shit, my original claim was force grip or choke can instantly kill a victim, now i conceded that and changed it to "quickly" which is very capable of.
Read what you just said. you just said that "[b]force grip or force crush" can quickly kill opponents. You also said that Dooku used force grip on Kenobi in ROTS, but that it couldn't quickly kill opponents. Contradiction much? Which one is it?[/B]
Oh and force crush CAN quickly kill opponents, seeing that it may be possible that the attack vader exerted on those creatures could be force crush which they died instantly or the fact that vader applied force crush and instantly crushed a head inside a chest.
Originally posted by darthsith19Then maybe you should have shut up and erased it.
Good, that makes about the first half of your post irrelevant (to bad I didn't read this before responding to all of it).
Go ahead and argue somemore darth sith, i'd love to engage in a debate with you, EXPECIALLY broken records. Go ahead, reply, i'm not ready to give up.