Lor Pelek(kar vastor) vs (ESB)Vader

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's great. And your personal opinion will change nothing: He has been demonstrated to move extremely fast and in the EU there was never a reason for him to speed up. Did he kill Obi-wan? Did he beat Luke in eSB?

Unless he lost, proof enough. And your opinion doesn't override canon

He got his hand chopped off in ROTJ. I call that a good reason. He won the fight with Obi-wan because Obi-wan allowed him too.

Speed aside, Kar was up there with Mace. Think Vader could top him?

Luke hits his shoulder, Vader gets pissed, jumps down, and detroys Luke's arm

Pretty damn fast. I saw the scene a few hours ago too.

EDIT: Either way, he stalemated Obi. Obi couldn't defeat him either, and gave up.

Oh, and Mace didn't duel as fast as... say Obi-Wan or Grievous. He wasn't too fast either. He relied alot on his strength.

Similar to whom?

If It was on Tatooine Yes

An unarmed Mace in the jungle, Kar's territority...and an armed, thinking Mace only needed a few seconds to beat Kar.

And that's a testament to Luke's power...and Vader being a bit reluctant to attack his son. And if Obi-wan could've beaten Vader, he'd have done so. He lost

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I have read RODV. Infact, I was probably the first guy on the forum to do so (finished it six hours after it first came out).

And they still don't override that fast that he is slow in the movies. Furthermore, Vader considered himself clumsy in RODV.

Yeah, but by the end his Force mastery (lightsaber throw accuracy, tearing up Wookie foundations) had astonished Shryne, and both he and Olee were startled by his grace and skill on Kashyyyk. Which, mind you, was enough to bring down a quoted ''swordmaster'' not even two months after RotS, as well as five Jedi Knights and an idiotic Padawan.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
An unarmed Mace in the jungle, Kar's territority...and an armed, thinking Mace only needed a few seconds to beat Kar.

And that's a testament to Luke's power...and Vader being a bit reluctant to attack his son. And if Obi-wan could've beaten Vader, he'd have done so. He lost

Would Obi-wan really have done so? He was surrounded by Stormtroopers, it was a lose-lose situation.

Kar was unarmed too. It's been a long time since I've read Shatterpoint, but I remember Mace saying that he was weaker then Kar.

If you're gonna die either way, kill the Dark Lord. Obi-wan couldn't win.

Physically? Kar was younger and about twice Mace's size.

ANH novel... written by George Lucas. Kenobi would have beaten Vader if he could have.

And Kar had a vibroshield compared to Mace's lightsaber.

YES

Originally posted by Lightsnake
If you're gonna die either way, kill the Dark Lord. Obi-wan couldn't win.

Physically? Kar was younger and about twice Mace's size.

Why would he do that? Obi-wan still felt that Anakin could be saved. Killing him wouldn't allow him to be saved.

Obi-wan was of the firm beliefs of 'more machine than man'...he wanted Anakin dead and leaving him alive would be absolute stupid. and Apparently the ANH novelization makes Obi's inferiority clear

Originally posted by Razielim
ANH novel... written by George Lucas. Kenobi would have beaten Vader if he could have.

And Kar had a vibroshield compared to Mace's lightsaber.

The ANH novel was actually written by Dean Foster, but has GL's name on it. Not top canon.

Kar's vibroshield worked great against Mace's lightsaber, it should do the same here.

Novelizations are still G or at least C canon

No, he didn't. I'm sure he discovered this in RotS.

And in ROTJ, when he wants Luke to kill his father.

And in ESB, when "He's more machine than man" and he's "pure evil" IIRC.

Obi's not an idiot. Killing Darth Vader would have done wonders for the Rebellion and heavily cripple the Empire's self-esteem and image.

But he couldn't do it.

Vader Will Force Grip him

Var is force sensitive. He'll be able to shrug it off.

Who have You Known to Shrug off a Force Choke. Because Quinlan Vos Sure as Hell didn't Shrug off Dookus

Kar will shrug it off before or after he's totally unable to get any air into his lungs?

Luke could.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Kar will shrug it off before or after he's totally unable to get any air into his lungs?

Long before.