Mace Windu vs Yoda vs Dooku vs Sidious

Originally posted by tdtd
Wrong.. Sidious=Yoda on higher ground. Yoda did indeed disarm Sidious, which is why Sidious got the higher ground. And where does it show him gaining upper hand? The part where he couldn't stop a coming pod, or the part where his lightning was killing him?

Since when did Yoda disarm Sidious?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Does it say in the script that Yoda disarmed him? It shows him gaining the upper hand when he is chucking pods madly at Yoda and Yoda is barely able to dodge them. When he outs Yoda on the defense. The lightning duel at the very end was even. Overall I'd say Sidious and Yoda are pretty much exactly even.

It does indeed say it in the script, and I think it was in the novel, but I'm not sure. And again, do I have to explain the concept of gravity for you and the sheer testament of Yoda's power as opposed to Sidious'? Sidious is chucking them DOWN, while Yoda has to dodge them. The fact that he can stop one and chuck it right back up is impressive enough, as you can see Sidious not being able to stop it. And the lightning duel at the end had Sidious shitting his pants before they both fall.

Yoda can take Sidious on any fair map.

After a long hard fight. Yoda is Sid's superior, but not by much.

yup

tdtd, watch again. At first Sidious lifted not one, but three pods up at the same time without even moving his hands!

Actually, he was moving his hands, and gravity states that it's harder to stop 1 and chug it back up, than just throwing 3 down.

Ah, here we go again. The whole "Sidious Yoda pod" deal. Wasn't this crap already squared away with in another thread?

Many many months ago

Whereas Yoda showed a great deal of strength stopping the ONE pod coming at him, Sids showed the same if not more lifting several pods at once without even looking at them or any strain appearing on his face. If I recall correctly you can see alot of effort on Yodas face when he stopped the pod. And it was in the air. Sids ripped out the pods from their docking bays. Yes gravity does play a big part I dont think you can say Yoda showed a greater show of force strength than Sids. They were on par with Sids probably having a slight advantage. However the outcome of the fight was a stalemate and on different terrain Yoda might get the victory 6/10 times.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Whereas Yoda showed a great deal of strength stopping the ONE pod coming at him, Sids showed the same if not more lifting several pods at once without even looking at them or any strain appearing on his face. If I recall correctly you can see alot of effort on Yodas face when he stopped the pod. And it was in the air. Sids ripped out the pods from their docking bays. Yes gravity does play a big part I dont think you can say Yoda showed a greater show of force strength than Sids. They were on par with Sids probably having a slight advantage. However the outcome of the fight was a stalemate and on different terrain Yoda might get the victory 6/10 times.

No. I understand gravity perfectly (if you read my post you can see I mentioned it) im just saying that lifting THREE pods out of their docking bay with relative ease and with gravity on your side is a better show of force than stopping just ONE pod that wasnt attached to anything. Yes Yoda had gravity against him but that doesnt mean that he is better than Sids.It merely means that he could be, at best, on par with Sids.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
No. I understand gravity perfectly (if you read my post you can see I mentioned it) im just saying that lifting THREE pods out of their docking bay with relative ease and with gravity on your side is a better show of force than stopping just ONE pod that wasnt attached to anything. Yes Yoda had gravity against him but that doesnt mean that he is better than Sids.It merely means that he could be, at best, on par with Sids.

At best? Since when is stopping a pod coming at you full-force less impressive than some simple telekenesis? I suppose Dooku > Yoda because he managed to let that cylinder fall, and Yoda had to stop it.

You were disrpoven time, and time again in an old thread where this was settled.

Oh, and you still haven't grasped the concept of gravity. Mentioning it doesn't mean you understand it.

mace would win

Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
I see the concept of gravity eludes you... a pity.

Yeah, I can see Mace winning this since Yoda's form causes him to be tired.

Im not saying that Yoda isnt as strong as Sids. Im saying that in that particular scene with the pods Sids showed a better show of force. Ripping three pods at once out of their bays and lifting them above your head (which involves gravity being against you) and throwing them without having to look at them and without strain is better than stopping ONE pod coming at you with gravity against you. And you can see Yoda struggling to stop the pod coming at him. Both participants had gravity against him, Yoda possibly more so than Sids, but Yoda stopping it isnt as difficult as you are making it out to be.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im not saying that Yoda isnt as strong as Sids. Im saying that in that particular scene with the pods Sids showed a better show of force. Ripping three pods at once out of their bays and lifting them above your head (which involves gravity being against you) and throwing them without having to look at them and without strain is better than stopping ONE pod coming at you with gravity against you. And you can see Yoda struggling to stop the pod coming at him. Both participants had gravity against him, Yoda possibly more so than Sids, but Yoda stopping it isnt as difficult as you are making it out to be.

After much consideration I'm going to have to say Dooku wins this. This type of fight would be very unorthodox and it is extremely hard to determine how it would work in reality or who the winner would be, but I believe that Dooku has many qualities that make it seem very probable that he would be the victor.

Firstly his swordsmanship would help him a lot in this fight.
He has displayed incredible ease with dealing with multiple opponents (and not amateurs like Kolar or Tinn (well not general amateurs but amateurs compared to Anakin and Obi-Wan), but Anakin and Obi-Wan - two of the order's finest swordsmen) and I believe that this is due to his experience with a saber and his refinement of Makashi. The point being, his ease and competence with dealing with multiple opponents would be a great asset for him with this type of unorthodox fight with multiple opponents. The fact that Mace was so incompetent with working with his 3 jedi masters to apprehend Sidious also leads me to believe that he would not be competent with multiple combatants period, whether they are on his side or whether he is against them. Yoda and Sidious are both Ataru masters, and Ataru is generally known for being weak against multiple opponents (KOTOR2 backs this up).

The fact that Dooku only needs to wield his saber with one hand while he duels makes it easier for him to pull off a force power while dueling and I think that this would also greatly benefit him in the fight. I mean it is already an unorthodox and strange fight for all of the combatants so why not make it harder for his opponents by combining his saber dueling with force powers. And we have all seen him display the mastery and control of the force that is needed to carry this out competently.

My final point is that every single one of these combatants are pretty close on terms of power levels (and Dooku is arguably the best saber dueler out of the bunch and the 3rd best force user), and that any fight involving these four force users would be incredible and last quite a bit of time whether it involves just 2 of them or tag teams or whatever. But when you make the fight more complicated and foreign to the combatants like this fight, the fight would probably last even longer and because of these points I would think that fatigue would play a huge factor on the result of this fight, and Dooku’s use of Makashi enables him to use up the least amount of energy as possible, whereas Sidious and Yoda’s Ataru means that they use up too much energy (especially Yoda considering the degree to which he uses the force to augment his physical attributes. And Mace is probably the most likely out of all four of them to slip up and die before fatigue becomes a deciding variable (his defence is his weak point and DEFENCE is probably THE most important quality in this type of fight). Because of these points, I say Dooku takes it.